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Portland [Quenched]

Postby lostatlimbo on Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:05 am

Looks like the final version still had "reservoirs" spelled incorrectly. Oops! Any chance this can still be updated? Nothing else about the map changed - just corrected the typo.

Portland.xml
Updated 8/1
(20.23 KiB) Downloaded 139 times


Click image to enlarge.
image

Image

Thanks to Victor Sullivan and Ian canton for their help on the XML and ChipV for the handy XML tool.

ImageImageImageImage Image Image
Last edited by lostatlimbo on Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:35 pm, edited 154 times in total.
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map

Postby lostatlimbo on Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:54 am

show: About Portland


show: THE BASICS


show: Previous Drafts
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map

Postby bspride on Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:39 am

im just a little confused about the stops...who do they attack? There is no real clear border on those stops
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map

Postby Redmond Rules on Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:50 am

You need Omsi if you have the Zoo. Docks would be better if it was renamed Swan Island. The Portland Trailblazers should be there somehow even if it's an Icon like your college things on an existing square.

Will think about this more.
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map

Postby Redmond Rules on Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:52 am

Powell Books is a must too.
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map

Postby psilotum on Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:33 pm

Don't forget Lewis and Clark College.


Whooooo Pios!!!
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map

Postby lostatlimbo on Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:42 pm

Redmond Rules wrote:You need Omsi if you have the Zoo. Docks would be better if it was renamed Swan Island. The Portland Trailblazers should be there somehow even if it's an Icon like your college things on an existing square.

Will think about this more.


The Zoo is really just a space-friendly stand-in for Washington Park. I might be able to squeeze OMSI into Inner SE, but it would only be decoration. I'm trying to avoid clutter on the map unless it serves a purpose, but I'll try to work it in. Same goes for Powell's. There's just not room for it.

I had thought about the Trailblazers, but since CC is already dealing with copyright-infringement, I don't think it will fly. Additionally, if you compare it to other city-specific maps like NYC, San Francisco & Puget Sound - none of them mention sports teams, even though they have many.

Good call on Swan Island. I like that better... but fitting it in that space might be tough.

Good feedback. Thanks!
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map

Postby lostatlimbo on Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:56 pm

psilotum wrote:Don't forget Lewis and Clark College.


Whooooo Pios!!!


Ha - no slight to the Pioneers... L&C is just too far south to fit on this map. I've also neglected Concordia, but the NE quadrant already has 6 territories with potential bonuses.
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map

Postby lostatlimbo on Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:58 pm

bspride wrote:im just a little confused about the stops...who do they attack? There is no real clear border on those stops


They can attack other adjacent stops and any neighborhood that they touch. I'll have to think of how to make this clearer on the map. Any suggestions?
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map

Postby Tisha on Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:09 pm

looks like it might be cool.. map sizes are wrong though, to big.

have you read through this? viewtopic.php?f=10&t=40463
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map

Postby psilotum on Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:39 pm

It's a little strange (game-play wise) that the entire MAX blue line is part of the red line. I realize this is somewhat accurate considering where you cut off the edge of your map. How about including the blue line stop in Goose Hollow or the Zoo? (I know technically those stops would also include the red line, but for game play it would be better if they didn't.
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map

Postby psilotum on Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:45 pm

lostatlimbo wrote:
psilotum wrote:Don't forget Lewis and Clark College.


Whooooo Pios!!!


Ha - no slight to the Pioneers... L&C is just too far south to fit on this map. I've also neglected Concordia, but the NE quadrant already has 6 territories with potential bonuses.


LC is right in the Terwilliger Curves! And inside Portland city limits!
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map

Postby lostatlimbo on Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:03 pm

psilotum wrote:It's a little strange (game-play wise) that the entire MAX blue line is part of the red line. I realize this is somewhat accurate considering where you cut off the edge of your map. How about including the blue line stop in Goose Hollow or the Zoo? (I know technically those stops would also include the red line, but for game play it would be better if they didn't.


Hmmm... check again - the Blue line does go to the Zoo and even to Beaverton. The Red Line and Blue Line each have 6 stops and only 4 are shared between them - including the Rose Garden Transit Center - which is also shared with Yellow.

*I added a thin, connecting line between these two - does that help visually to connect the Zoo with the Transit Center?

Re: Lewis & Clark - in scale it would be well-below the section that talks about the MAX bonuses. If there was more room in the Terwilliger area, I would fudge the details, but that would give one territory 2 schools and an automatic bonus of +1. I purposely tried to spread school, bike and park bonuses out for fairness.
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map

Postby edbeard on Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:07 pm

I'll come back later (maybe not today) with a proper analysis but one thing I think is important...

42 territories is much better than 41

42 is divisible by 3, 6, and 7
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map

Postby oaktown on Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:49 pm

I like Portland - very close to skiing. Not the best snow in the country, but the top of Mt Hood is unique. I was there on a snowy day down below, took that chair to the top, and came up and over the clouds to some pretty nice off-piste skiing with perhaps the best view I've ever had on skis... sorry, Heavenly.

Map style: nice. Colors are friendly without being sickenly bright and cheery... kinda like Portland. I wonder if there isn't some way to make better use of space? Some territories are really large, while the downtown/Zoo/Forest Park area is a bit muddled and could stand some more space. I don't think it's bad to take some liberties with true geography if it means better play. For instance, you could cut 40 pixels off of the right side of the easternmost territories and not effect the map at all.

That would give you room to do a bit of work on the downtown map - I have trouble telling what can attack what on the inset map, which may be a color issue. And the +1 bonus is what exactly?

The MAX stations and crossings of the lines took me a while to figure out, so some clarity there wouldn't hurt... i'd say the more you can tell from the map itself and the less you have to explain in the legends the better. And are there no MAX stations downtown?

Nice start. :D
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map

Postby e_i_pi on Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:17 am

edbeard wrote:I'll come back later (maybe not today) with a proper analysis but one thing I think is important...

42 territories is much better than 41

42 is divisible by 3, 6, and 7

(cough cough and 2 ;) )

/agree

Fitting in one more province would give your map much better gameplay on a range of settings. 2p games would start with equal neutrals to players, 3p would have no neutrals, and you would have only 2 neutrals on 4p 5p 8p.

I have no clue as to the layout of Rose City, so i can't suggest anything, but I would strongly suggest adding in just one more province :D
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map

Postby psilotum on Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:49 pm

lostatlimbo wrote:
psilotum wrote:It's a little strange (game-play wise) that the entire MAX blue line is part of the red line. I realize this is somewhat accurate considering where you cut off the edge of your map. How about including the blue line stop in Goose Hollow or the Zoo? (I know technically those stops would also include the red line, but for game play it would be better if they didn't.


Hmmm... check again - the Blue line does go to the Zoo and even to Beaverton. The Red Line and Blue Line each have 6 stops and only 4 are shared between them - including the Rose Garden Transit Center - which is also shared with Yellow.

*I added a thin, connecting line between these two - does that help visually to connect the Zoo with the Transit Center?



D'oh! Ah, yes. That thin line does help. Perhaps it could be a thick line in a lighter shade? Or perhaps you should still add that Goose Hollow stop.

I look forward to playing this one. It will be fun.
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map

Postby lostatlimbo on Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:30 pm

Ah, good suggestions. I'll re-think Downtown some and add that extra territory, then try to submit a new draft next week.

Thanks!
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map

Postby jayde on Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:22 am

I like this idea and give it the Jayde Stamp of Approval. When can we play it?
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map - Third Draft posted

Postby lostatlimbo on Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:55 pm

Third Draft posted.

Click image to enlarge.
image


Your feedback has been great so far, keep it coming.
Last edited by lostatlimbo on Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map - Third Draft posted

Postby ReluctantCynic on Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:25 pm

I think the third draft is a significant improvement. And I really like the whole concept - the map is great, gameplay should be interesting, and there are enough unique twists to make strategy lively (without an overwhelming number of options to worry about).

I would suggest a few minor clarifications, though:

1. It's not clear whether Forest Park includes a park space bonus or not. The green box around the "Forest Park" label is kind of faded and washed out, so I can't tell if it's just highlighting forest park or actually includes park land. If it does include a park, I'd separate it from the label somehow. Maybe have a wedge-shaped green space stretching northwest or something.

2. The color for Alberta Arts needs to more closely match the surrounding areas. Right now, I think players could be too easily confused into thinking it's a separate bonus alone or one territory in the surrounding set of NE Portland.

3. It's not clear how Waterfront Park figures into the park bonus option. All the other parks are enclosed within territories, so it's pretty easy to see that you need to occupy the territory to get the park bonus. But Waterfront Park borders four territories. That's visually confusing, and the notation that "Old Town, Pioneer, and S. Park share 1 park" doesn't clarify matters. Does that mean I -- as a player -- have to occupy all three territories to get credit for that one park? Or, for example, would I get a +2 bonus for occupying Old Town, Alameda, St. Johns, and Mt. Tabor?

4. And why doesn't Terwilliger Curves also share the Waterfront Park bonus?
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map - Third Draft posted

Postby MrBenn on Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:31 pm

lostatlimbo wrote:Third Draft posted.

For future reference, please could you add an updated image to the end of the thread, where you've posted an update, as well as on the first post. It makes the development much easier to follow, and will help people to tie comments to particular versions.
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map - Third Draft posted

Postby bspride on Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:06 pm

I like how you are putting streets on the map...it looks good like that...im hoping your considering doing that for the whole map...also maybe in the parks you could put dirt trails and trees in the continent...other than that the map looks good...keeping on keeping on
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map - Third Draft posted

Postby lostatlimbo on Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:29 pm

MrBenn wrote:...please could you add an updated image to the end of the thread, where you've posted an update...


Done!

ReluctantCynic wrote:I think the third draft is a significant improvement. And I really like the whole concept - the map is great, gameplay should be interesting, and there are enough unique twists to make strategy lively (without an overwhelming number of options to worry about).


Thanks!

ReluctantCynic wrote:1. It's not clear whether Forest Park includes a park space bonus or not. The green box around the "Forest Park" label is kind of faded and washed out, so I can't tell if it's just highlighting forest park or actually includes park land.


I had hoped to clarify this by requiring Forest Park as part of ANY park bonus - rather than it being a territory with a park. Since Forest Park represents a 5,100 acre stretch of forest, I wanted to represent it as the full territory - hence the pattern of grass, rather than a swatch of color. Initially, I had all of Forest Park outlined with that bright green border, so perhaps that's the way to go? I'll think about this one some more. It needs to be clear from the map that Forest Park is at the center of any Park bonus.

ReluctantCynic wrote:2. The color for Alberta Arts needs to more closely match the surrounding areas. Right now, I think players could be too easily confused into thinking it's a separate bonus alone or one territory in the surrounding set of NE Portland.


Easy fix. I'll make that change with the next draft.

ReluctantCynic wrote:3. It's not clear how Waterfront Park figures into the park bonus option. All the other parks are enclosed within territories, so it's pretty easy to see that you need to occupy the territory to get the park bonus. But Waterfront Park borders four territories. That's visually confusing, and the notation that "Old Town, Pioneer, and S. Park share 1 park" doesn't clarify matters. Does that mean I -- as a player -- have to occupy all three territories to get credit for that one park? Or, for example, would I get a +2 bonus for occupying Old Town, Alameda, St. Johns, and Mt. Tabor? 4. And why doesn't Terwilliger Curves also share the Waterfront Park bonus?


This has been my biggest head-scratcher so far. The notion is that there is one park (Waterfront) that only counts as one park, but can be counted for any of those 3 territories. For example, you could receive a +2 bonus for holding Forest Park, St. Johns, Alameda & Old Town (4 separate parks), but you could not receive a bonus for holding Forest park, St. Johns, Old Town & Pioneer. (only 3 separate parks). Another example would be a player receiving a +5 bonus by holding Forest Park, St. Johns, University, Irvington, Alameda, Mt Tabor, Belmont, & Old Town EVEN IF another player holds Pioneer & South Park, because you are holding 8 separate parks.

On the third draft, I drew up a border around downtown (including that park), but no lines over the park itself. Visually, I had hoped that this would clarify the connection. Terwilliger is not a "park" territory, because there are no parks within its boundaries. Territories that qualify for a park bonus, must have a park within its borders.

I'm open to ideas on how to achieve this visually, though I worry that it may not work for the XML, either, so alternatively I may end up limiting that park to one territory - rather than the three.
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map - Third Draft posted

Postby MrBenn on Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:29 pm

Beaverton & Nob Hill... are these real place names?
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