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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map

Postby e_i_pi on Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:17 am

edbeard wrote:I'll come back later (maybe not today) with a proper analysis but one thing I think is important...

42 territories is much better than 41

42 is divisible by 3, 6, and 7

(cough cough and 2 ;) )

/agree

Fitting in one more province would give your map much better gameplay on a range of settings. 2p games would start with equal neutrals to players, 3p would have no neutrals, and you would have only 2 neutrals on 4p 5p 8p.

I have no clue as to the layout of Rose City, so i can't suggest anything, but I would strongly suggest adding in just one more province :D
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map

Postby psilotum on Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:49 pm

lostatlimbo wrote:
psilotum wrote:It's a little strange (game-play wise) that the entire MAX blue line is part of the red line. I realize this is somewhat accurate considering where you cut off the edge of your map. How about including the blue line stop in Goose Hollow or the Zoo? (I know technically those stops would also include the red line, but for game play it would be better if they didn't.


Hmmm... check again - the Blue line does go to the Zoo and even to Beaverton. The Red Line and Blue Line each have 6 stops and only 4 are shared between them - including the Rose Garden Transit Center - which is also shared with Yellow.

*I added a thin, connecting line between these two - does that help visually to connect the Zoo with the Transit Center?



D'oh! Ah, yes. That thin line does help. Perhaps it could be a thick line in a lighter shade? Or perhaps you should still add that Goose Hollow stop.

I look forward to playing this one. It will be fun.
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map

Postby lostatlimbo on Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:30 pm

Ah, good suggestions. I'll re-think Downtown some and add that extra territory, then try to submit a new draft next week.

Thanks!
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map

Postby jayde on Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:22 am

I like this idea and give it the Jayde Stamp of Approval. When can we play it?
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map - Third Draft posted

Postby lostatlimbo on Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:55 pm

Third Draft posted.

Click image to enlarge.
image


Your feedback has been great so far, keep it coming.
Last edited by lostatlimbo on Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map - Third Draft posted

Postby ReluctantCynic on Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:25 pm

I think the third draft is a significant improvement. And I really like the whole concept - the map is great, gameplay should be interesting, and there are enough unique twists to make strategy lively (without an overwhelming number of options to worry about).

I would suggest a few minor clarifications, though:

1. It's not clear whether Forest Park includes a park space bonus or not. The green box around the "Forest Park" label is kind of faded and washed out, so I can't tell if it's just highlighting forest park or actually includes park land. If it does include a park, I'd separate it from the label somehow. Maybe have a wedge-shaped green space stretching northwest or something.

2. The color for Alberta Arts needs to more closely match the surrounding areas. Right now, I think players could be too easily confused into thinking it's a separate bonus alone or one territory in the surrounding set of NE Portland.

3. It's not clear how Waterfront Park figures into the park bonus option. All the other parks are enclosed within territories, so it's pretty easy to see that you need to occupy the territory to get the park bonus. But Waterfront Park borders four territories. That's visually confusing, and the notation that "Old Town, Pioneer, and S. Park share 1 park" doesn't clarify matters. Does that mean I -- as a player -- have to occupy all three territories to get credit for that one park? Or, for example, would I get a +2 bonus for occupying Old Town, Alameda, St. Johns, and Mt. Tabor?

4. And why doesn't Terwilliger Curves also share the Waterfront Park bonus?
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map - Third Draft posted

Postby MrBenn on Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:31 pm

lostatlimbo wrote:Third Draft posted.

For future reference, please could you add an updated image to the end of the thread, where you've posted an update, as well as on the first post. It makes the development much easier to follow, and will help people to tie comments to particular versions.
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map - Third Draft posted

Postby bspride on Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:06 pm

I like how you are putting streets on the map...it looks good like that...im hoping your considering doing that for the whole map...also maybe in the parks you could put dirt trails and trees in the continent...other than that the map looks good...keeping on keeping on
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map - Third Draft posted

Postby lostatlimbo on Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:29 pm

MrBenn wrote:...please could you add an updated image to the end of the thread, where you've posted an update...


Done!

ReluctantCynic wrote:I think the third draft is a significant improvement. And I really like the whole concept - the map is great, gameplay should be interesting, and there are enough unique twists to make strategy lively (without an overwhelming number of options to worry about).


Thanks!

ReluctantCynic wrote:1. It's not clear whether Forest Park includes a park space bonus or not. The green box around the "Forest Park" label is kind of faded and washed out, so I can't tell if it's just highlighting forest park or actually includes park land.


I had hoped to clarify this by requiring Forest Park as part of ANY park bonus - rather than it being a territory with a park. Since Forest Park represents a 5,100 acre stretch of forest, I wanted to represent it as the full territory - hence the pattern of grass, rather than a swatch of color. Initially, I had all of Forest Park outlined with that bright green border, so perhaps that's the way to go? I'll think about this one some more. It needs to be clear from the map that Forest Park is at the center of any Park bonus.

ReluctantCynic wrote:2. The color for Alberta Arts needs to more closely match the surrounding areas. Right now, I think players could be too easily confused into thinking it's a separate bonus alone or one territory in the surrounding set of NE Portland.


Easy fix. I'll make that change with the next draft.

ReluctantCynic wrote:3. It's not clear how Waterfront Park figures into the park bonus option. All the other parks are enclosed within territories, so it's pretty easy to see that you need to occupy the territory to get the park bonus. But Waterfront Park borders four territories. That's visually confusing, and the notation that "Old Town, Pioneer, and S. Park share 1 park" doesn't clarify matters. Does that mean I -- as a player -- have to occupy all three territories to get credit for that one park? Or, for example, would I get a +2 bonus for occupying Old Town, Alameda, St. Johns, and Mt. Tabor? 4. And why doesn't Terwilliger Curves also share the Waterfront Park bonus?


This has been my biggest head-scratcher so far. The notion is that there is one park (Waterfront) that only counts as one park, but can be counted for any of those 3 territories. For example, you could receive a +2 bonus for holding Forest Park, St. Johns, Alameda & Old Town (4 separate parks), but you could not receive a bonus for holding Forest park, St. Johns, Old Town & Pioneer. (only 3 separate parks). Another example would be a player receiving a +5 bonus by holding Forest Park, St. Johns, University, Irvington, Alameda, Mt Tabor, Belmont, & Old Town EVEN IF another player holds Pioneer & South Park, because you are holding 8 separate parks.

On the third draft, I drew up a border around downtown (including that park), but no lines over the park itself. Visually, I had hoped that this would clarify the connection. Terwilliger is not a "park" territory, because there are no parks within its boundaries. Territories that qualify for a park bonus, must have a park within its borders.

I'm open to ideas on how to achieve this visually, though I worry that it may not work for the XML, either, so alternatively I may end up limiting that park to one territory - rather than the three.
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map - Third Draft posted

Postby MrBenn on Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:29 pm

Beaverton & Nob Hill... are these real place names?
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map - Third Draft posted

Postby lostatlimbo on Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:35 pm

MrBenn wrote:Beaverton & Nob Hill... are these real place names?


Haha! Yes, of course! All of the names on the map are real.

Beaverton is a huge suburb of Portland: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaverton,_Oregon

Nob Hill is a fancy section of Downtown Portland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nob_Hill,_Portland,_Oregon
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map - Third Draft posted

Postby LED ZEPPELINER on Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:58 pm

its cooliesh
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map - Fourth Draft posted

Postby lostatlimbo on Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:03 pm

Fourth Draft update: Made some minor changes regarding coloration. I've also eliminated the confusing park situation in Downtown. Now only "Old Town" is a 'park territory'. I've changed Forest Park's border color to signify that the entire territory is indeed a park.

Smaller Map:
Click image to enlarge.
image


Larger Map:
Click image to enlarge.
image
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map - Fourth Draft posted

Postby lostatlimbo on Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:15 pm

so whats next? I've responded to all the feedback thus far and haven't received anymore.

I'm rather happy with the map as it is and I think I've addressed any potential confusion or gameplay problems.
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Re: Rose City (Portland, OR) Map - Fourth Draft posted

Postby MrBenn on Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:06 pm

I like this map - there's something 'kitsch' about it ;-)

The following is a list of my observations/thoughts, in no particular order:

1. It took me while to figure out that they must be territories on the MAX lines? That really isn't too obvious - especially as none of them are named!

2. There are a lot of 'busy' looking maps in the works right now, and this is one of them. The green park symbols vary in shape and size, and I'm not sure whether that is supposed to be a park in Old Town? It took me a long time to find Forest Park as it doesn;t have one of the green squares on it :?

3. Once I found it, I realised that Forest Park is essential for any of the park bonuses, which makes that terirtory more valuable than anywhere else - particularly as it also has a bicycle on it.... I'd be inclined to move some of the symbols around so that each square has only one symbol...

4. The grid/road effect on the Downtown territories might look better if it was toned down a bit.

5. What does OMSI stand for? What are the different Universities?
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