New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

[joecoolfrog]

^^^well cya....However and this is directed at the admins! You cant chop and changes rules as you please. Some people have paid for a product and you go and change it, tsk tsk. Its only $25 and thats why i wont take the matter further

haven't you left a few times already?

Every good company moves with the times and tweaks their product as they deem best, poor companies ignore problems and lose business. As for taking the matter further you could always start up a site to accomodate those you feel have been hard done by

[MuEagles79]

aren't these new rules reading some intent into the new members and basically saying they have no idea what games they are joining?

seems a little paternalistic to me but it is the moderators site so they can run it how they want to.

I do remember getting housed plenty of times in my early games just from being inexperienced. How does one learn good strategy if one is forced to play against other new members?

[porkenbeans]

aren't these new rules reading some intent into the new members and basically saying they have no idea what games they are joining?

seems a little paternalistic to me but it is the moderators site so they can run it how they want to.

I do remember getting housed plenty of times in my early games just from being inexperienced. How does one learn good strategy if one is forced to play against other new members?

Just as Kindergartners go to class with other Kindergartners. They are not thrown in with seniors in high school. Where is the contest in that ?

[porkenbeans]

I used to set up loads and loads of cardless foggy 8-player Age of Merchant maps. I did this because between the deadbeats and people who didn't understand the map, my chances of winning were highly increased, and every so often when a skilled player would join the games, he would provide a challenge and some fun.

It was only when someone called me a noob farmer did I look up what that meant and realize that a huge majority of the members I was playing against were new recruits. That wasn't my intention when I made the maps, I had made it so I could either play against people who knew the map well and provided a good challenge or against people who knew the map less than me so that I had a better chance against them. If I had a way to stop the new recruits from joining the game, I would've used it.

Now I don't have to find a way to stop new recruits from joining my game because Lack's done that for me! Yay! This update is awesome!

You are not Noob farming when you start a public game. You are not intentionally going after new recruits. Unless you pm them to join your games. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what you are doing.

Really? I think a game like that is just the type they are trying to stop. Who would want to play a no cards foggy on that map? Not many at all. Hence the point farmers, picked maps like Circus Maximus, Battle For Iraq, Waterloo, etc. They knew normal people did not like those settings generally, so they would get noobs who just click the first game they see on the join a game page.

The day they make rules that restrict players from starting a no cards foggy battle for Iraq game, or any other type of game with similar settings, is the day I decide to not renew my premium!

Bruce, Starting a public game is NOT directly targeting new recruits. Anyone from cook to Conquer might join. I believe that what Lack and crew are trying to stop, is, The direct targeting of Newbies. Be it through joining new recruits games to PMing them for games. He is not trying to prevent all the different ranks from playing each other. Just those that seem to have a specific diet for newbies. He has already explained the reasoning for the changes in policy. From the integrity of the scoreboard to the retention of members. Any person of wisdom can clearly see that CC will benefit from these new rules, and overall attitude of the site.

[MuEagles79]

aren't these new rules reading some intent into the new members and basically saying they have no idea what games they are joining?

seems a little paternalistic to me but it is the moderators site so they can run it how they want to.

I do remember getting housed plenty of times in my early games just from being inexperienced. How does one learn good strategy if one is forced to play against other new members?

Just as Kindergartners go to class with other Kindergartners. They are not thrown in with seniors in high school. Where is the contest in that ?

your logic is completely faulty unless you believe only people of similar ranks/experience should be playing each other

most of us on this site are adults and know the repercussions of the decisions we make on this site(ie. joining games). The rules for all games are clearly spelled out on the boards and on the websites rules link.

I do agree that users specifically sending PM's to new members is a disgusting tactic and should be banned.

I just see a slippery slope here of determining what constitutes "newbie farming". How many games does one member have to play against new members to constitute farming? Does a game need to have all new members in it to be considered farming?

None of these things have been defined by the mods. In order to obey the laws, one needs to know what the laws are. right now, these are just guidelines.

With all the being said, I agree with what the mods are doing here..it just needs to be much more clearly defined.

[MuEagles79]

I used to set up loads and loads of cardless foggy 8-player Age of Merchant maps. I did this because between the deadbeats and people who didn't understand the map, my chances of winning were highly increased, and every so often when a skilled player would join the games, he would provide a challenge and some fun.

It was only when someone called me a noob farmer did I look up what that meant and realize that a huge majority of the members I was playing against were new recruits. That wasn't my intention when I made the maps, I had made it so I could either play against people who knew the map well and provided a good challenge or against people who knew the map less than me so that I had a better chance against them. If I had a way to stop the new recruits from joining the game, I would've used it.

Now I don't have to find a way to stop new recruits from joining my game because Lack's done that for me! Yay! This update is awesome!

You are not Noob farming when you start a public game. You are not intentionally going after new recruits. Unless you pm them to join your games. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what you are doing.

Really? I think a game like that is just the type they are trying to stop. Who would want to play a no cards foggy on that map? Not many at all. Hence the point farmers, picked maps like Circus Maximus, Battle For Iraq, Waterloo, etc. They knew normal people did not like those settings generally, so they would get noobs who just click the first game they see on the join a game page.

The day they make rules that restrict players from starting a no cards foggy battle for Iraq game, or any other type of game with similar settings, is the day I decide to not renew my premium!

Bruce, Starting a public game is NOT directly targeting new recruits. Anyone from cook to Conquer might join. I believe that what Lack and crew are trying to stop, is, The direct targeting of Newbies. Be it through joining new recruits games to PMing them for games. He is not trying to prevent all the different ranks from playing each other. Just those that seem to have a specific diet for newbies. He has already explained the reasoning for the changes in policy. From the integrity of the scoreboard to the retention of members. Any person of wisdom can clearly see that CC will benefit from these new rules, and overall attitude of the site.

Pork....I agree with you that Lack & Crew's intent is clear and wise. However, the intent is not reflected in the current laws/guidelines. I think a lot of us are afraid of being unfairly targeted by mods. Right now as the law/guidelines stand, any member who plays too many games against new members will be de-ranked and possibly banned. What the hell constitutes too many games? You can't because it isn't defined.

[porkenbeans]

Agreed. I would imagine that this is in the works.

[aldaluin]

I thought a little perspective from a noob might be useful. I learned about CC a couple of weeks ago from some friends with free time at work, and played my first couple of games only with them. Got lucky with an early win and made PFC before I knew what it was. Since then I've stretched my wings a little and sunk to Cadet.

There aren't any guidelines about what kinds of games to join / avoid. As a common-sense measure, I stuck to options similar to a board game (ahem...) I've played from time to time. I stayed on boards with simple bonus and movement rules (e.g. Great Lakes). I didn't know it was possible for anyone to invite me to join games; wasn't aware of the Callouts forum (still haven't been there...). I don't *think* I've been farmed - I've just been more enthusiastic than skilled. Anyway, it might be good to have some guidelines in the Instructions section somewhere. I suspect it might do more good to (subtly) show noobs how to avoid farmers than to try to enforce subjective rules against the practice.

A clearly marked area restricted to, say, people who don't have any achievement awards, would have helped to make me feel capable, whether I won or not. After three or four losses in a row, I was feeling like dropping off and not playing any more. Then there were a couple where I wasn't totally outclassed from the beginning, and so I'm still here and I think I may have a chance in one or two of the games I'm in now.

I guess what I'm rambling on about is that as I read through this thread, it seemed to me that the intent of the new rule was less about farming and more about retaining people after they show up, and lose a game or three, and realize they could participate a *lot* without ever gaining any wins, points or clues.

One last point from a noob's perspective -- it takes a lot less courage to join someone else's game than it does to pick a board yourself, figure out what options might be fun, and then wait a couple of days while everyone ignores you. Guys, don't stop putting up new games for new people just because you might get accused of farming.

[Snorri1234]

I love it.

[4red]

Well Done. Its quite funny that lots of the farmers are leaving messages of support for this action. What about map specialization? Well if you foe anyone else who plays that map its farming. Grow some testicular fortitude and have a real game.

Cheer Red

[kmhebert]

I just see a slippery slope here of determining what constitutes "newbie farming". How many games does one member have to play against new members to constitute farming? Does a game need to have all new members in it to be considered farming?

None of these things have been defined by the mods. In order to obey the laws, one needs to know what the laws are. right now, these are just guidelines.

With all the being said, I agree with what the mods are doing here..it just needs to be much more clearly defined.

This is my basic problem with this. I play a lot of games against new recruits, low ranked players... heh I play a lot of games period. I just do a Game Finder search for 2 players games and join a bunch of them. I skip a lot of the Age of Realms maps but if someone is playing onm a map I like, I join. I don't know what to add, I just don't want to get whacked because I play a lot of games. What are the guidelines?

[MuEagles79]

I just see a slippery slope here of determining what constitutes "newbie farming". How many games does one member have to play against new members to constitute farming? Does a game need to have all new members in it to be considered farming?

None of these things have been defined by the mods. In order to obey the laws, one needs to know what the laws are. right now, these are just guidelines.

With all the being said, I agree with what the mods are doing here..it just needs to be much more clearly defined.

This is my basic problem with this. I play a lot of games against new recruits, low ranked players... heh I play a lot of games period. I just do a Game Finder search for 2 players games and join a bunch of them. I skip a lot of the Age of Realms maps but if someone is playing onm a map I like, I join. I don't know what to add, I just don't want to get whacked because I play a lot of games. What are the guidelines?

It is a continued problem with "updates" for the website. They are rolled out in a half-assed manner with many bugs. This isn't to say that the work done on the updates by the mods is half-assed. I appreciate all they do to keep this site up and running in a functional manner. I am just shocked though that something like this could be rolled out without addressing some major and simple issues presented via the updates.

[MuEagles79]

Agreed. I would imagine that this is in the works.

I assume it is too but this shouldn't have been rolled out without these definitions in place.

[porkenbeans]

Agreed. I would imagine that this is in the works.

I assume it is too but this shouldn't have been rolled out without these definitions in place.

Maybe lack was just giving a heads up. So players would not be so surprised when the new rules come down.

[Nephilim]

love it, great work lack and friends......maybe now i can make it a bit higher on the board

and to comment on what others have said: dude with the caveman attorney avy, it is not necessarily true that "most of us on the site are adults." a big part of this problem is kids coming in, joining games, deadbeating......and farmers recognizing this and stealing the easy points.

and a big "yup" to everyone who has pointed out the need for more clarity on the new "rules".......i'm sure they will get around to it!

cheers and happy new year, CC