Forum

by **oaktown** on Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:11 pm

Click image to enlarge.

This map project began as an entry to Centerscape competition, but I got my ass handed to me on a plate. However, there seemed to be enough interest to keep the idea alive, and we don't have an ancient Mesopotamia map yet, so here we go. Obviously, the gameplay is no longer Centerscape; I am now working on the fertile crescent, with an eye on the Epic Adventures of Gilgamesh.

Stats:
44 Territories.
7 regions.
Neutral starts: Babylon and To Be Determined
Coded starting positions: 1. Bull of Heaven & Assur; 2. Humbaba and Nineveh, 3. Mashu & Ur
Bull of Heaven can be attacked only from Uruk, and only attack Uruk.
Bonuses for holding 4 or 5 of the marked city-states between the Tigris-Euphrates rivers.
Bonus for holding the three challenges: the Bull of Heaven, the scorpion guardians of Mashu, and Humbaba the keeper of the forests.

Starts: 2 players = 14 territories, 3 players = 14 territories, 4 players = 10 territories, 5 players = 5 territores, 6 players = 7 territories, 7 players = 6 territories, 8 players = 5 territories.

Gilgamesh-specific features: The Wilds in the north west are where Gilgamesh and Enkidu - after walking many leagues - face Humbaba and invoke the wrath of the gods. The Bull of Heaven (the physical manifestation of drought) lies at the gates of Uruk, and is where Enkidu fell. Shurupak is the city of the great flood as told in the epic, where Utnapishtim built the ark and carried two of each creature to safety. Mashu lies between two great mountains, protected by the scorpions who allow G' to pass in his search for eternal life. Dilmun is the land of the Gods, from which the sun rises, so it is in it's rightful place in the east; it is here that Gilgamesh travels, crossing the Great Darkness and the Waters of Death, to learn the secret of eternal life from Utnapishtim.

by **Incandenza** on Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:19 pm

Well, if you're kinda meh about it now, imagine how you'll feel after dicking with the gameplay for the next 3 months...

I dunno, I really like it, but if you're not feeling it, you gotta do what you gotta do.

by **the.killing.44** on Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:22 pm

Yay you made it a new map! Well, I guess it's your map but I think most people here like it (hence the 5 people agreeing to my claim that you should continue). I do have a question: what are the scorpion and lion (and others) for? and why only on one tert? And also at first glance: I'm not a big fan of the arrows. Again, it's up to you to continue it …

.44

by **ZeakCytho** on Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:47 pm

I'm just not feeling it. I think removing the Gilgamesh might make it better - call it Ancient Mesopotamia or something. The fact is, the Epic of Gilgamesh is really vague about place locations, and so it makes for a rather bad map. But I think Ancient Mesopotamia is a concept that can really be a hit.

One graphical thing: please ditch the multicolored mountains. Something like what Benn did on Wales would be nice. Props for not making them look like veins, though

That being said, I'd rather see you finish Route 66 before this.

by **the.killing.44** on Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:55 pm

ZeakCytho wrote:I'm just not feeling it. I think removing the Gilgamesh might make it better - call it Ancient Mesopotamia or something. The fact is, the Epic of Gilgamesh is really vague about place locations, and so it makes for a rather bad map. But I think Ancient Mesopotamia is a concept that can really be a hit.

One graphical thing: please ditch the multicolored mountains. Something like what Benn did on Wales would be nice. Props for not making them look like veins, though

That being said, I'd rather see you finish Route 66 before this.

Agreed on pretty much everything you said

.44

by **LED ZEPPELINER** on Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:06 pm

i think that its a pretty damn good looking map, maybe change the borders a little and stuff, (so that it is not exactly the same as centerscape) and give it a new title, i would play it

by **Incandenza** on Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:15 pm

Huh, I actually like the multi-color mountains and the Gilgamesh localization. They give the map flavor and help it come off like some sort of ancient mosaic.

by **AndyDufresne** on Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:21 pm

I'm feeling this map. I'm in agreement with Incandenza on the mountains and Gilgamesh ideas...I'd like to see it!

--Andy

by **captainwalrus** on Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:46 pm

I like this a lot, but what is Gilgamesh?

by **InkL0sed** on Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:51 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:I'm feeling this map. I'm in agreement with Incandenza on the mountains and Gilgamesh ideas...I'd like to see it!

--Andy

Seconded. Gilgamesh is a great idea, I wanted to vote for it out of pure nerdiness.

by **lgoasklucyl** on Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:56 pm

ZeakCytho wrote:I'm just not feeling it. I think removing the Gilgamesh might make it better - call it Ancient Mesopotamia or something. The fact is, the Epic of Gilgamesh is really vague about place locations, and so it makes for a rather bad map. But I think Ancient Mesopotamia is a concept that can really be a hit.

One graphical thing: please ditch the multicolored mountains. Something like what Benn did on Wales would be nice. Props for not making them look like veins, though

That being said, I'd rather see you finish Route 66 before this.

I agree on the removing the Gilgamesh idea but disagree with removing the mountains. I like them the way they are and think it adds to it being unique. The Gilgamesh this is kind of off-putting, as the locations in the actual work weren't very specific to geographical locations. If you intend to keep Gilgamesh, you could intermingle it with the locations currently on the map and perhaps add in locations listed in versions of the story for an added spice and to make it relevant to Gilgamesh. It's a stretch but could prove interesting. It's been three years since I read whatever we covered of it, so I can't remember exact locations, but from a quick google there'd be plenty to work with. Or, perhaps you could use some sort of bonuses for recovering the tablets (as that's one of the bigger historical aspects of the Epic of Gilgamesh).

One problem I see, though, it currently has the same gameplay as 'Centerscape', no? If I wasn't feeling it (personally) I'm not sure I would put the amount of effort into it that's going to be necessary. The gameplay is going to need to be changed in order to be unique to the gameplay of Centerscape (I'd imagine at least), to avoid two of the same map with different graphics existing.

Graphics/idea wise, though, I love it. Renamed Ancient Mesopotamia or something along those lines or even adding in extra aspects to correspond with the Epic would make a great new map and I would totally be into it and play it often.

by **Incandenza** on Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:02 pm

captainwalrus wrote:I like this a lot, but what is Gilgamesh?

Epic of Gilgamesh (wiki)

The more you know

by **ZeakCytho** on Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:29 pm

Incandenza wrote:Huh, I actually like the multi-color mountains and the Gilgamesh localization. They give the map flavor and help it come off like some sort of ancient mosaic.

Mountains aside, I really don't see that much Gilgamesh in this map. Sure, a few territories are references from the epic, but really, not that much would be changed by calling this Ancient Mesopotamia. The best flavor on this map, IMO, is the statue-guys standing at the bottom.

by **MrBenn** on Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:26 am

LED ZEPPELINER wrote:i think that its a pretty damn good looking map, maybe change the borders a little and stuff, (so that it is not exactly the same as centerscape) and give it a new title, i would play it

lgoasklucyl wrote:One problem I see, though, it currently has the same gameplay as 'Centerscape', no? If I wasn't feeling it (personally) I'm not sure I would put the amount of effort into it that's going to be necessary. The gameplay is going to need to be changed in order to be unique to the gameplay of Centerscape (I'd imagine at least), to avoid two of the same map with different graphics existing.

Whether or not the map has the same gameplay is neither here nor there really... Oak, what are your intentions in relation to altering borders/boundaries/bridges/barriers (I was going to mention one-way attacks and arrows but would have lost my alliteration!).