[Official] Germany Revamp

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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Update 7th Post Pg. 16 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby Incandenza on Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:37 pm

Bruceswar wrote:
Optimus Prime wrote:Is everyone forgetting that a large number of the REVAMPS are made because the original artist wants them revamped? I know for a fact that is the case with Brazil and British Isles. Why is everyone going around ranting and raving about REVAMPS the last couple of days? If the original artist wants it changed, they can have it changed, they don't owe any of us anything.

End of story.



While this is 100% true, these maps also by part belong to the CC Community. They may not have the rights to change them, but surely they can vote by choosing the play map X or not.

Edited to add: Just a guess but 80% of CC does not visit the forums much, if at all. With that being said, I think many more people would help /give ideas etc if a note was put in the my games section. Then you would have far less people upset over a map revamp. Maybe even a scrolling text with important news. "Brazil map getting revamped: Check it here" "Germany map getting revamped: Check it here" Or anything else CC deems important, such as medals, feedback, new rule changes etc. Leave it for a few weeks and get a better feel on things. But that is for another topic.


The problem is that the vast vast majority of CCers simply don't care and have zero curiosity about where maps come from. For most players (and this extends across ranks, I have stories that would blow cartographer's minds), maps might as well be brought fully-created by the bloody stork. So when there's a mild uproar like this (and let's be honest, this is about as mild an uproar as one could have on CC), I tend not to have a great deal of sympathy.

Even when map information is posted on the homepage, most people just breeze right past it. I see what you're saying about a note on the "my games" page, but there's a couple of problems with that. One is that the average revamp takes several months at least, so how long should any sort of notice remain up? Two is that I imagine lack likes to keep my games page notices to fundamental, site-wide notices, like the new rating system or the upgrade to the forum software.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Update 7th Post Pg. 16 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby Bruceswar on Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:09 pm

Incandenza wrote:The problem is that the vast vast majority of CCers simply don't care and have zero curiosity about where maps come from. For most players (and this extends across ranks, I have stories that would blow cartographer's minds), maps might as well be brought fully-created by the bloody stork. So when there's a mild uproar like this (and let's be honest, this is about as mild an uproar as one could have on CC), I tend not to have a great deal of sympathy.

Even when map information is posted on the homepage, most people just breeze right past it. I see what you're saying about a note on the "my games" page, but there's a couple of problems with that. One is that the average revamp takes several months at least, so how long should any sort of notice remain up? Two is that I imagine lack likes to keep my games page notices to fundamental, site-wide notices, like the new rating system or the upgrade to the forum software.



While many think these maps come from the stork already done, many more would like a say in the matter. I know a friend of mine, took part in the first part of the Brazil revamp, since Oaktown posted in a game chat to check it out. He rarely reads the forums, and I am not sure if he has posted at all. Also how many maps are being revamped at a time? 2 or 3 max usually. With a ticker like they use on sports websites, they could have it scroll the messages. It would only be like 5 messages max or so. Messages about forum updates, medals, etc would last a week or 2, while revamps could last as long as needed. Informed people are much more happy in the long run, than the overnight changes some seem to make.

To those who think the stork gives the maps to CC, well not too much you can say to them other than "F Off and try one for yourself and then let me know how easy it is". For those who would like to have a say, better advertisement would help a ton.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Update 7th Post Pg. 16 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby Bruceswar on Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:36 pm

pepperonibread wrote:
Last, for your individual comments:
1. This color scheme was decided on due to a certain lack of German flavor in the original draft of the revamp. It's been adjusted throughout this thread - to be frank, I'd venture to say that this aspect of the image has really already been agreed upon, save for some minor adjustments.
2. Which spot are you referring to? The territories Osnabruck and Munster do not border, if this is what you're talking about I could scoot the mountains over a bit to make the impassable more clear.
3. These were switched for accuracy's sake.
4. This revamp would replace the current Germany map.



1. Fine about the German flavor, but there are other ways to go about getting it.
2. I meant the movement of Berlin down south and making the island. Also Moving Kiel into the other bonus.
3. Fine if you want to be accurate, but we must remember it is a game. Anyhow that will not effect the game play at all really, just a notice.
4. So what will happen if you owned a spot that has been moved to another bonus area? Say Dresden or Kiel? Also what about the new spots on the maps? Where do those go?
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Update 7th Post Pg. 16 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby edbeard on Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:40 pm

people that would like to have a say are already in the forums

unless you mean the type of "have a say" which encompasses things like "it's a good idea", "it's a bad idea", "you should do it like this and I won't come back until everything is already done and complain that no one listened to my probably not thought out idea", etc


people don't like change. simple as that. It'd be very nice if each map had small, large, original small, original large versions. That would require an XML overhaul. Adding revamps as a separate map seems like too much. We don't need two classic maps. We don't need two british isles or two germanys.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Update 7th Post Pg. 16 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby edbeard on Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:42 pm

Bruceswar wrote:4. So what will happen if you owned a spot that has been moved to another bonus area? Say Dresden or Kiel? Also what about the new spots on the maps? Where do those go?


GAMEPLAY DOESN'T CHANGE. you might say, "Yea. I know that already." But, you're not grasping it. If I own territory X which appears in the bottom right and after the revamp it is located on the bottom left, it's still the same territory. It appears to be different but gameplay-wise you're in the same spot. The graphical representation of the gameplay has changed. That's it.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Update 7th Post Pg. 16 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby Bruceswar on Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:18 pm

edbeard wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:4. So what will happen if you owned a spot that has been moved to another bonus area? Say Dresden or Kiel? Also what about the new spots on the maps? Where do those go?


GAMEPLAY DOESN'T CHANGE. you might say, "Yea. I know that already." But, you're not grasping it. If I own territory X which appears in the bottom right and after the revamp it is located on the bottom left, it's still the same territory. It appears to be different but gameplay-wise you're in the same spot. The graphical representation of the gameplay has changed. That's it.



Soo Basically what you are saying is the name of the places are changing, but nobody is going to be moved. I think you missed the question. Maybe I should be more specific.

If you own Dresden currently, which is part of the pink bonus do you have Berlin now?

Maybe it would be a bit helpful to most of the territory changes could be posted.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Update 7th Post Pg. 16 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby edbeard on Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:47 pm

well you ask a general question and get a general answer.

ask a specific question and get a specific answer


Dresden is now Potsdam
Potsdam is now Magdeburg
Hamburg is now Rostock
Kiel is now Rugen

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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Update 7th Post Pg. 16 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby Optimus Prime on Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:11 pm

Bruceswar wrote:
Optimus Prime wrote:Is everyone forgetting that a large number of the REVAMPS are made because the original artist wants them revamped? I know for a fact that is the case with Brazil and British Isles. Why is everyone going around ranting and raving about REVAMPS the last couple of days? If the original artist wants it changed, they can have it changed, they don't owe any of us anything.

End of story.



While this is 100% true, these maps also by part belong to the CC Community. They may not have the rights to change them, but surely they can vote by choosing the play map X or not.

Edited to add: Just a guess but 80% of CC does not visit the forums much, if at all. With that being said, I think many more people would help /give ideas etc if a note was put in the my games section. Then you would have far less people upset over a map revamp. Maybe even a scrolling text with important news. "Brazil map getting revamped: Check it here" "Germany map getting revamped: Check it here" Or anything else CC deems important, such as medals, feedback, new rule changes etc. Leave it for a few weeks and get a better feel on things. But that is for another topic.

I beg to differ. The CC Community in no way owns any portion of the maps, they are 100% on loan to the CC community by the individual mapmaker's and as such the mapmaker has final say in what is done with them. Far more than 80% of the membership of this site has never seen the light of day inside these forums. You only think there is a "dislike" for REVAMPS because a few people show up in the forum and say something. It is not indicative of the membership as a whole in any way.

If cairnswk, WIdowmakers, RjBeals, and gimil were to walk in tomorrow and tell lackattack that they no longer wish to have their maps used on the site, there is nothing he can do about it. I say we are lucky to have the maps and the changes made during REVAMPS are not negative in any way.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Update 7th Post Pg. 16 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby pepperonibread on Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:47 pm

edbeard wrote:Dresden is now Potsdam
Potsdam is now Magdeburg
Hamburg is now Rostock
Kiel is now Rugen


And...
Old map's Donrath = New map's Koblenz
Old map's Erfurt = New map's Zwickau
Old map's Augsburg = New map's Bayreuth
Old map's Niedersachsen = New map's Bremen
etc.

Similar adjustments happened in the entries to the Centerscape Revamp competition (viewtopic.php?f=127&t=72094), and I think in the British Isles revamp as well.
Just imagine a "skeleton map" like Classic shapes. You can distort, push, pull, and displace the territories all you want, but the gameplay still remains identical as long as none of the actual attack routes (lines) are altered or broken.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Update 7th Post Pg. 16 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby pepperonibread on Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:40 pm

New update, I had some time now that exams are over:

Large:

Click image to enlarge.
image


Small:

Click image to enlarge.
image


Large w/ Army #'s:

Click image to enlarge.
image


Small w/ Army #'s:

Click image to enlarge.
image


Changes:
-Lightened the Preussen continent so the territory names are easier to see
-I now use bigimg tags in my updates, for yall stuck with little screens

To do:
-Small map problems?
-Write XML
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Update 1/24 Pg. 18 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby ZeakCytho on Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:53 pm

Write the XML, then quenchquenchquenchquenchquench!
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Update 1/24 Pg. 18 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby sailorseal on Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:09 pm

This Germany revamp is long awaited in my opinion, also using German colors and giving a overall nicer feel gets this map my vote...





If we were voting...
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Update 1/24 Pg. 18 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby pepperonibread on Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:11 pm

sailorseal wrote:This Germany revamp is long awaited in my opinion, also using German colors and giving a overall nicer feel gets this map my vote...





If we were voting...


Glad you like it... hopefully it won't be too much longer til it's playable.
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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Update 1/24 Pg. 18 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby gimil on Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:28 am

Hi pep.

Small point today. On the small could you move Dresden army number down a px? It looks like it more or less touches the terr name.

Pep you should make more maps, you are by far one of our best.
What do you know about map making, bitch?

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Re: [Official] Germany REVAMP - Update 1/24 Pg. 18 [I,Gp,Gr]

Postby wrightfan123 on Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:32 pm

Pep, I love the revamp, it's going great, but I DO have a complaint. The bridge connecting Rostock and Rugen stands out WAY too much for my liking. Maybe you could make a low-key dotted line? Or at least a better bridge? Thanks.

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