The map formerly known as World Cities

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Re: World Cities

Postby Astoria on Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:32 am

Nice work so far!

1)You already mentioned that there will be Moscow on your next version, it is good. But if it is going to be too many cities than you originally thought, - just put Moscow instead of St.Petersburg, you don't even need to change any connections. But there is no doubt that Moscow is far beyond St. Petersburg is all the fields except cultural where due to Peter the Great there are many great places to visit in our North "Capital", which St.Petersburg is called quite often on radio.

2) I'm surprised to see Budapest there and no Berlin. How come?

3) In Asia, where you have a connection line between Astana and Tokyo russian seaport Vladivostok should work great, it is right where you need it i bet, just make sure it is at the shore.
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Re: World Cities

Postby Joodoo on Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:51 am

1.Include two more cities:Lagos and Buenos Aires
2.Would it possible for Cairo and Dubai to become adjacent?
2.Is there a way to make it more clear that Athens belongs to Europe only (unless you want it to a transcontinental territory)?
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Re: World Cities

Postby ManBungalow on Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:22 am

iancanton wrote:sully

have u run this one past andy already? i ask because this is a map of the world, with geographical continent bonuses and 42 areas where u can place armies. when classic shapes and classic art were introduced, great care was taken for the new maps not to be direct representations of a world map. if nothing has changed since that time, then world cities seems to fall foul of this principle.

ian. :)

I think you've got a point there. I'm thinking that we could get away with this if we're lucky; we can still play World 2.1 after all (for now).

ManBungalow wrote:This looks like the kind of classical map.

Incidentally, nobody noticed my hint :(
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Re: World Cities

Postby Teflon Kris on Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:52 pm

I'd suggest swapping Rio for Sao Paulo. According to my unreliable memory, Sao Paolo is the biggest city in Brazil.
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Re: World Cities

Postby yeti_c on Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:11 pm

Personally - I can't see any reason why this would fall foul of Copyright...

However I wouldn't bother asking Andy - Ask Lack... he'll give you the yay or nay up front.

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Re: World Cities

Postby AndyDufresne on Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:18 pm

It'll be good to ask Lack---but my initial thoughts are that it's fine.


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Re: World Cities

Postby killerpit4e on Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:18 pm

sully800 wrote:Here is my first draft of the World Cities map. My goal for this map is to create a map of the world that is of standard size (instead of the very large World 2.1). I know that we cannot create a map of the world countries that is too similar to the old classic map, so I have decided to highlight some of the most important cities from different countries around the world.

Because I am using cities instead of countries, all connections will be shown directly (instead of showing zone borders). Each region will be made of zones connected by lines, similar to Midkermia. Please ignore the current aesthetics of the shadows and lines, I understand it does not look very good. I intend to curve the lines to make all connections more aesthetically pleasing once the zones are finalized. Army shadows probably will not be used in the final version, but are shown here for simplicity.

Comments on the region images, colors, title, and bonus labels are welcome.

Click image to enlarge.
image


42 countries, 6 continents

No unique gameplay items, this map will be exceptionally "standard".

Very traditional gameplay in terms of the continent size, and number of connections between territories


hey i will do the xml for ya if ya want
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Re: World Cities

Postby sailorseal on Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:52 pm

Cains! That's it upper right corner of Australia, nice city. Now I remember!
Also add Stalingrad and Alaska's Capital.
The graphics seem pretty good so far so I wold focus on balancing the left and right side of the board from a GP perspective
Athens, Dubai and Cairo should all connect.
I would also change Singapore to connect with Nairobi instead of Cape Town
Great Idea and Great Map!
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Re: World Cities

Postby Astoria on Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:03 pm

sailorseal wrote:Also add Stalingrad


FYI : It is called Volgograd for almost 50 years by now. In the name of Volga river on which it stays. Volga is the largest river in Europe.
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Re: World Cities

Postby tlane on Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:48 pm

sailorseal wrote:Also add Stalingrad and Alaska's Capital.


Alaska most known city is probably Anchorage.

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Re: World Cities

Postby GrimReaper. on Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:12 pm

i think hes trying to make it similar to classic but with citys right???
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Re: World Cities

Postby sailorseal on Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:17 pm

What about Classic Cities?
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Re: World Cities

Postby GrimReaper. on Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:21 pm

correct me if im wrong but i think hie is trying to make it like classic (shape wise)
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Re: World Cities

Postby sully800 on Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:50 pm

I'm trying to establish the best possible gameplay for a 42 territory map of cities of the world.

Next update should be finished tonight. Mostly its minor changes to certain city names
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Re: World Cities

Postby sully800 on Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:10 pm

V2

Click image to enlarge.
image


Changes
Hawaii --> Honolulu
Quebec --> Montreal
Budapest --> Berlin
Astana --> Novoslotsofotherletters
Quezon City --> Manila
Brasilia --> Buenos Aires
Denver --> Las Vegas

Also, I added the globe to the title, and the compass on the bottom left. Changed the colors of each city label to match the bonus region. Switched around a lot of connections so they would make more sense, while keeping gameplay very close to the same.
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Re: World Cities (V2, 3/29/09)

Postby Merciless Wong on Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:13 pm

You should see Prince Of The City - I've been doing a line based vanilla map for some time but this is different and cool.
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Re: World Cities (V2, 3/29/09)

Postby edbeard on Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:28 pm

=D>


the pink or whatever it is for South America doesn't fit well with the other colours. orange maybe? this becomes especially evident in the legend. 5 ones that fit fairly well together (maybe Oceania looks a bit "off" compared to the others as well) and then South America which looks strange. Like it's missing its colour or something. the rest are all somewhat deep so it doesn't work for me there or on the map itself.

the compass stands out too much

the globe/title might stand out a little too much as well.


gameplay seems fine. I've been over it a few times and it looks ok. though it's almost classic exactly?


I think you said earlier that circles and connections are just to help talk about gameplay because that's really my only other gripe.
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Re: World Cities (V2, 3/29/09)

Postby sully800 on Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:00 pm

This update is just for you ed!

I tried the orange for SA and rather like it (I was initially afraid it might be confused with the yellow in africa, but that doesn't seem to be a problem). I toned down the title and compass just a tad, but I think they will still need additional blending. I also reversed my gradient for the ocean which I think improved the look dramatically so I thought I should post this for you all.

Click image to enlarge.
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby sully800 on Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:24 pm

Tisha wrote:you should make the width 630.. it looks like you could use the space


Done! I think I had been misreading the height and weight restrictions previously

Joodoo wrote:1.Include two more cities:Lagos and Buenos Aires
2.Would it possible for Cairo and Dubai to become adjacent?
2.Is there a way to make it more clear that Athens belongs to Europe only (unless you want it to a transcontinental territory)?


I switched Brasilia to Buenos Aires but I don't want to add cities to SA or Africa. I think a map of this size will play much better with some "easy" to grab bonus regions, and 5 cities makes it to hard.

For the same reason, I don't want the Africa cities to border the Asia ones, because Africa is one of the low bonus regions. Tying it to three different continents makes it too hard to defend for 2 bonus troops. As you have probably noticed, I did switch the Africa connection to the more obvious location of Cairo.

DJ Teflon wrote:I'd suggest swapping Rio for Sao Paulo. According to my unreliable memory, Sao Paolo is the biggest city in Brazil.


You are correct that Sao Paulo is larger (in fact one of the 7 largest cities in the world!) Tokyo, NYC, Mexico City, and Mumbai are already included. Seoul is too close to South Korea in my opinion, even though its in the top 7. Jakarta is the 6th, so maybe it should replace Singapore after all? I think you've made a good enough case for Sao Paulo though simply on size.

sailorseal wrote:Cains! That's it upper right corner of Australia, nice city. Now I remember!
Also add Stalingrad and Alaska's Capital.
The graphics seem pretty good so far so I wold focus on balancing the left and right side of the board from a GP perspective
Athens, Dubai and Cairo should all connect.
I would also change Singapore to connect with Nairobi instead of Cape Town
Great Idea and Great Map!


Cairns I'm still debating. I don't want to add another territory to Australia, so it would replace Perth if I decide to add it. Perth's position is much more favorable though (Melbourne, Sydney and Cairns are basically in a line). People know Cairns on CC simply because of the town's most famous poster. Perth is much larger and in a better location so I think it will stay.

Volgograd (Stalingrad) is too close to Moscow and Tehran. Tehran could be switched, but Moscow is the real problem.

I originally included Anchorage in my draft instead of Edmonton, but I think it connects awkwardly with the rest of NA. Also the USA already has the most cities on the map, so adding another to Canada seems reasonable to me. I suppose I could include both, but NA is already the largest continent, and 42 territories is much better than 43.

What do you feel is imbalanced about the current gameplay?

edbeard wrote:I think you said earlier that circles and connections are just to help talk about gameplay because that's really my only other gripe.


Correct. I don't have an exact plan, but the current straight lines exist because they are simpler to redraw than curves. I think in the end I will have curved connections like an airline map and no army shadows when the xml is complete.

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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby Danyael on Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:36 pm

very nice look to the maps i thing the capitals are good doesn't make it look as busy
as well should we see Greenland on the top left side just wondering
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby whitestazn88 on Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:41 pm

awesome
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby SultanOfSurreal on Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:45 pm

Love it so far. Two more suggestions on replacements...

1. Replace Novowhatever, a fairly obscure city, with Lhasa, the capital of Tibet and one of the biggest political hotspots in the world today. It'll also make Asia look a little fuller.

2. Replace Stockholm with Geneva. Stockholm is a banking capital, but that's already well represented by New York, London, and Tokyo. Geneva is sort of the "law capital" of the world.

An aesthetic suggestion: Write out the full names of Los Angeles and New York. There's enough room and it makes the map seem, I dunno... more refined.

Gameplay suggestion... make Istanbul an asian city. As it stands now, Europe has more cities than Asia, which doesn't seem right somehow, even if Europe is a bigger influence in the world as a whole. But Istanbul can be either an Asian city or a European city, so why not call it Asian? Or you could go for some unique gameplay and make it count as both...
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby Joodoo on Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:57 am

as far I know, Lhasa isn't a "world city"
plus, it has a population of less than 300,000 people, which is extremely low compared to other cities in practically any part of Asia
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby sully800 on Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:48 am

SultanOfSurreal wrote:Love it so far. Two more suggestions on replacements...

1. Replace Novowhatever, a fairly obscure city, with Lhasa, the capital of Tibet and one of the biggest political hotspots in the world today. It'll also make Asia look a little fuller.


Novosibirsk is the 3rd largest Russian city (after Moscow and St. Petersburg) which is why it was included. It is home to 1.4 million people, though I agree the name is not well known. It is in central Russia though which is the real key. Lhasa is in a part of the map that is already somewhat full. Removing Novos would make Russia look barren, but then again Siberia pretty much is so that might not be a terrible choice.

SultanOfSurreal wrote:2. Replace Stockholm with Geneva. Stockholm is a banking capital, but that's already well represented by New York, London, and Tokyo. Geneva is sort of the "law capital" of the world.


I think I need to include a city from Scandanavia, because the mainland of Europe is already full. Geneva is too close to Paris to fit in my map, though the law capital idea is interesting.

Stockholm could possibly be replaced with Oslo or Helsinki, but the former is not as well known and the latter is too close to St. Petersburg in my opinion.

SultanOfSurreal wrote:An aesthetic suggestion: Write out the full names of Los Angeles and New York. There's enough room and it makes the map seem, I dunno... more refined.


There might be enough room to write out the city names, but I don't think there's enough room to write the NYC connection to London. LA has plenty of space, but including shorter names will make the map feel less crowded. How does everyone else feel about this suggestion?

SultanOfSurreal wrote:Gameplay suggestion... make Istanbul an asian city. As it stands now, Europe has more cities than Asia, which doesn't seem right somehow, even if Europe is a bigger influence in the world as a whole. But Istanbul can be either an Asian city or a European city, so why not call it Asian? Or you could go for some unique gameplay and make it count as both...


I thought about making Istanbul part of both continents (since it actually is) but I'd rather keep classic style gameplay. Originally Istanbul was named Athens which would clearly be European, but Istanbul is a larger modern city. I feel like Athens has had enough world influence over the centuries, so if Istanbul is causing confusion I would gladly switch it back.

As for the continent sizes, Europe has more cities but fewer borders with other continents. Asia conversely has 4 borders (some with multiple continents) and fewer countries. I like the balance of those characteristics to give them an equal bonus value. If a city is switched to Asia then Europe would probably be +4 and Asia +6 which I don't like as much.
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby barterer2002 on Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:57 am

Sully I really do love this idea/map. Personally I'd like to see another city or two in Africa. I understand your reasoning for the easy to grab bonuses and such. Even if its just one, something like Timbuctu (sp?) with its clear historical significance on the Atlantic Coast would be great.

I might also suggest replacing Santa Cruz either with Santiago or Lima from the Pacific Coast of South America.

I also agree with the idea of moving Istanbul into Asia

I wouldn't be averse to moving up to even 46 terts but I understand your desire to keep it at 42. Since adding one in Africa would move it up to 43, if I had to remove one I'd probably take out Atlanta entirely
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