Spain - Draft 2 <VACATION 4-7-09>

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Re: Spain - Draft V3.02 >Updated AGAIN<

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon May 04, 2009 4:29 pm

Nice start on the map, it's got a nice artistic touch that isnt overdone on CC. I really hope this thing develops and becomes playable.

1) The terr. alottment does look very similar to Iberia, I'm not sure that you're going to be able to keep it that way. I'm assuming this map, as well as Iberia, took their designs from however the Spanish gov't does it so it might be difficult. Perhaps change the bonus structure around a tad? Maybe group some terrs together. Not sure.

2) I believe the Balearic's are part of Spain, they don't look colored in.

That's all I've got for now, get some names and troop circles in there. I look forward to the continuation of this map.
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Re: Spain - Draft V3.02 >Updated AGAIN<

Postby Merker on Mon May 04, 2009 5:14 pm

MrBenn wrote:This map is getting closer and closer to becoming a working draft - let's get you into the drafting room now ;-)

[moved]


Thanks Mr Benn
sam_levi_11 wrote:its far too similar to iberia


We've been over this a million times, we are adding the Balearics(Palma is apart of this), Canary Islands, ports and cities, although thanks anyway, I know it's a bit of posts but we went through this on the first 2-3 pages. We'll work on more unique game play once we've finished labelling spain.

Industrial Helix wrote:Nice start on the map, it's got a nice artistic touch that isnt overdone on CC. I really hope this thing develops and becomes playable.

1) The terr. alottment does look very similar to Iberia, I'm not sure that you're going to be able to keep it that way. I'm assuming this map, as well as Iberia, took their designs from however the Spanish gov't does it so it might be difficult. Perhaps change the bonus structure around a tad? Maybe group some terrs together. Not sure.

2) I believe the Balearic's are part of Spain, they don't look colored in.

That's all I've got for now, get some names and troop circles in there. I look forward to the continuation of this map.


1) As I said before, Canary Islands, ports and cities bonuses :)

2)Mmmm...I think Danyael must of missed them, it is in our original plan to include them.
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Re: Spain - Draft V3.02

Postby Danyael on Mon May 04, 2009 6:52 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:Nice start on the map, it's got a nice artistic touch that isnt overdone on CC. I really hope this thing develops and becomes playable.

1) The terr. alottment does look very similar to Iberia, I'm not sure that you're going to be able to keep it that way. I'm assuming this map, as well as Iberia, took their designs from however the Spanish gov't does it so it might be difficult. Perhaps change the bonus structure around a tad? Maybe group some terrs together. Not sure.

2) I believe the Balearic's are part of Spain, they don't look colored in.

That's all I've got for now, get some names and troop circles in there. I look forward to the continuation of this map.


Thanks

1) yes territs are very similar and yes this has do be different from iberia and not just omission of portugal france too make it anywhere so what i proposed is including canary isl. and baleric isl with ports connecting(too give the reach around)
port may become seperate terits
as well i'am working on different bonus

*discussion needed*
thoughts so far murcia(orange?) south east single territ will give +1 if one of the surrounding bonuses are held
murcia(orange) will also be or have a port
if a due include a seperate port territ, port and region would need
to be held to receive the bonus

As for the other regions if people have ideas of the amounts to give or any suggestions this would be helpful
note three east coast ports and one west coast port
connection idea i.e. murcia>murcia port>balerics>canarys>a coruna port>a coruna

this should also cover 2) as well

names and circles are on the to do list and will be next due to its easier to point things out once its been labeled

thanks once again helix

MrBenn wrote:This map is getting closer and closer to becoming a working draft - let's get you into the drafting room now ;-)

[moved]


once again thanks for the move i had to work today so i didn't have time to reply better
i'll make sure i have this labeled and up to the drafting room standard or at least in my books "within the week" (this may cause a little delay on goblins i hope people understand ;) )

sam_levi_11 wrote:I have to say it s a beautiful map so far, with a problem, its far too similar to iberia. I think however that this is preferable to that map based on what i can i see because it looks great, I just think it needs to look more mediteranian, more like spain really.



thanks for the comment on the beauty end of it it will have a Mediterranean theme to it

:roll: ... ... .... :roll:
more like Spain really.

this blows my mind but i know what you are getting at i have traveled(backpacked and hitchhike a lot of Spain and i have great passion & love for this country and i have lots of ideas on the way i will bring spain to light within this map

Note to merker
when you add the new update to the op edit subject to contain page of my update is on
i.e Espana V3 pg 1 & 5
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Re: Spain - Draft V3.02

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue May 05, 2009 2:51 am

Hmm. I like the idea of an extra bonus for holding Mercia plus a surrounding bonus area. I think you should play with this concept and maybe use it on a few more areas of the map. Might help get around common gameplay with Iberia.

As for making the ports and cities part of the regional bonus, I'm less confident on. My reasoning is that in occupying a territory you're getting a bonus b/c you receive the resources of that area. But since cities are involved, often in wars a region is occupied but the city is not, therefore diversifying the bonus/resources. Just a thought.

As far as bonuses go, there's a few spreadsheets here that can give you a reasonable idea of what would be appropriate. I based all my bonuses off what that told me and people chipped in their opinions when they thought something was too big or small.

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Re: Spain - Draft V3.02

Postby Merker on Tue May 05, 2009 4:54 am

Industrial Helix wrote:Hmm. I like the idea of an extra bonus for holding Mercia plus a surrounding bonus area. I think you should play with this concept and maybe use it on a few more areas of the map. Might help get around common gameplay with Iberia.

As for making the ports and cities part of the regional bonus, I'm less confident on. My reasoning is that in occupying a territory you're getting a bonus b/c you receive the resources of that area. But since cities are involved, often in wars a region is occupied but the city is not, therefore diversifying the bonus/resources. Just a thought.

As far as bonuses go, there's a few spreadsheets here that can give you a reasonable idea of what would be appropriate. I based all my bonuses off what that told me and people chipped in their opinions when they thought something was too big or small.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1410


Thanks for the help mate, it's really appreciated.

Danyael wrote:Note to merker
when you add the new update to the op edit subject to contain page of my update is on
i.e Espana V3 pg 1 & 5


Fair enough, I take it you are going to make it an Espanol spin on the map, as in the Spanish language?
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Re: Spain - Draft V3.02 <1&5>

Postby Danyael on Thu May 07, 2009 12:37 am

Industrial Helix wrote:As for making the ports and cities part of the regional bonus, I'm less confident on. My reasoning is that in occupying a territory you're getting a bonus b/c you receive the resources of that area. But since cities are involved, often in wars a region is occupied but the city is not, therefore diversifying the bonus/resources. Just a thought.


will do it will be better less clutter

here is my next update
Click image to enlarge.
image


added
names
colour to balearics
port routes
impassables
title
crappy looking legend

TO DO
make impassables and routes look better
make better legend
pixel tweaking
canary islands
better title

Discussion
*gameplay*
murcia and five northern regions
-does this sound all right (see legend)
bonuses balanced so far ??

*graphics*
names and circle positions
are they ok?
should i have port icons or paths


all other and any comments appreciated
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Re: Spain - Draft V3.02 <1&5>

Postby Merker on Thu May 07, 2009 4:32 am

Ok, well I may cover some things that are in your 'To-do' list, but never the less;

  • Army circles are nice, territory titles, cool, just it's the continent name... Don't like the squishing or the font.
  • Break up the Belearics and the Canary Islands in my opinion.
  • With the northern bonus, I was simply thinking "Nort de Espana". I realise with the current one it employs unique gameplay, but, it seems silly to employ it with a functional continent, not with the single territory continent, Murcia. >Helix

  • I think port icons TBH
  • Finally, with Madrid, I was thinking a less generous option, maybe 1+ bonus/autodeploy.



But definitely goodwork, I'm very happy with your work
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Re: Spain - Draft V3.02 <1&5>

Postby Dr.Winnerman on Thu May 07, 2009 11:36 am

The boarders look terrible, just saying
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Re: Spain - Draft V3.02 <1&5>

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu May 07, 2009 5:59 pm

Some quick suggestions:

Place the circles on land not on water.
Asturias/cantabria/pais vasco/navarra/ La rioja. I read that three of them give +2 with a sorrounding bonus...i don't know if this is a good choice.... :? Why not set them like a zone?
Title font is nice, but could be funny do it with spain flag colors
Legend is not easy to read. And the grey color isn't so nice :|
Impassable borders aren't so nice but i read you have to modify them...
Why you add impassable on neutral zones borders (france and portugal) ? :?
The link mallorca-canaries could be done with a symbol instead a line...(same for A coruna-canaries)
Some zone colors are similar(example: galicia-cataluna)
Madrid starts neutral...how many neutral troops?
Why don't set murcia similar to madrid?
The map is very full in the lower part and a spanish contextualization is missed

On the whole the map is improving...pay attention not to make it too similar to the iberia map ;)

Good work! =D>

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Re: Spain - Draft V3.02 <1&5>

Postby Merker on Thu May 07, 2009 6:23 pm

Dr.Winnerman wrote:The boarders look terrible, just saying


I have to agree. The continent borders are good though.

thenobodies80 wrote:Some quick suggestions:

Place the circles on land not on water.
Definitely...
Asturias/cantabria/pais vasco/navarra/ La rioja. I read that three of them give +2 with a sorrounding bonus...i don't know if this is a good choice.... :? Why not set them like a zone?
I suggested this too.Danyael must of been just playing around with the GP.
Title font is nice, but could be funny do it with spain flag colors
Agreed.
Legend is not easy to read. And the grey color isn't so nice :|
Just a mock-up mate
Impassable borders aren't so nice but i read you have to modify them...
I couldn't agree with you more
Why you add impassable on neutral zones borders (france and portugal) ? :?
There are mountains there but I prefer the continent look.
The link mallorca-canaries could be done with a symbol instead a line...(same for A coruna-canaries)
I suggested aswell.
Some zone colors are similar(example: galicia-cataluna)
Mmmmmm...
Madrid starts neutral...how many neutral troops?
I'd say 5 myself.
Why don't set murcia similar to madrid?
Madrid's more important damnet :evil: .
The map is very full in the lower part and a spanish contextualization is missed

On the whole the map is improving...pay attention not to make it too similar to the iberia map ;)

Good work! =D>
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Re: Spain - Draft V3.02 <1&5>

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu May 07, 2009 6:31 pm

Merker wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:Why don't set murcia similar to madrid?
Madrid's more important damnet :evil: .


Not same value, the +1 is good.
I'm saying to set it as starting neutral without the surrounding bonus options. :)

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Re: Spain - Draft 1 <1&6>

Postby Danyael on Thu May 07, 2009 9:46 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:Some quick suggestions:

Place the circles on land not on water.
Asturias/cantabria/pais vasco/navarra/ La rioja. I read that three of them give +2 with a sorrounding bonus...i don't know if this is a good choice.... :? Why not set them like a zone?
Title font is nice, but could be funny do it with spain flag colors
Legend is not easy to read. And the grey color isn't so nice :|
Impassable borders aren't so nice but i read you have to modify them...
Why you add impassable on neutral zones borders (france and portugal) ? :?
The link mallorca-canaries could be done with a symbol instead a line...(same for A coruna-canaries)
Some zone colors are similar(example: galicia-cataluna)
Madrid starts neutral...how many neutral troops?
Why don't set murcia similar to madrid?
The map is very full in the lower part and a spanish contextualization is missed

On the whole the map is improving...pay attention not to make it too similar to the iberia map ;)

Good work! =D>


Thanks for your comments and suggestion
very good help thanks

-for Asturias/cantabria/pais vasco/navarra/ La rioja i'll make them a zone (what would you call them)
-i will play with the title colours that might look pretty rad
-yes the legend is crap it will be quite a bit better next update
-i will remove the impassables on the france and portugal i think it looks better without them there
-will do with the links as you mentioned that will look good
-they look the same wow my eyes are screwed it amazes me galica looks alot darker to me but thats colourblindness for you
i will make it a different colour
-i'm thinking 4 troops neutral start or would that be to high if it will be an autodeploy +2 as well i'm thinking of making it
one way attack certain territs will have that on next update
-so you think if murcia starts neutral i should just make it +1 bonus and not have surrounding bonus
-the title will end up at the top i just threw it on so i'm in the guidelines so the lower half will not be as cluttered

Merker wrote:Ok, well I may cover some things that are in your 'To-do' list, but never the less;

  • Army circles are nice, territory titles, cool, just it's the continent name... Don't like the squishing or the font.
  • Break up the Belearics and the Canary Islands in my opinion.
  • With the northern bonus, I was simply thinking "Nort de Espana". I realise with the current one it employs unique gameplay, but, it seems silly to employ it with a functional continent, not with the single territory continent, Murcia. >Helix

  • I think port icons TBH
  • Finally, with Madrid, I was thinking a less generous option, maybe 1+ bonus/autodeploy.



But definitely goodwork, I'm very happy with your work

thank you
ok i used garamond like you wanted for both territs and regions i'll work with the region text that it doest look as squished
im not a fan of font myself i don't think it suits the map but its up to you
thumbs up to everything else but i'll try the gamplay setup like thenobodies80 suggest and see
and i think i'll make it that madrid can one way certain territs "major capitals as we discussed earlier
i will make that on the next up date
gotta work early tomorrow so i might have it up in 3 - 4 days no promises
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Re: Spain - Draft 1 <1&6>

Postby Merker on Fri May 08, 2009 2:58 am

I'd lay back for a bit now, be casual, do a bit now and then.
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Re: Spain - Draft 1 <1&6>

Postby mattosaurus on Fri May 08, 2009 3:27 pm

I have to agree on the fact that the impassable lines need a spruce up.

The font in the purple inset box is to short and fat. Maybe make columns of the text for the shorter entries, and a different font.

Also, you might consider removing portugal and france from the map. You would have more space and you wouldn't need to invent a coutry border graphic.
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Re: Spain - Draft V3.02 <1&5>

Postby Merker on Fri May 08, 2009 7:59 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:
Merker wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:Why don't set murcia similar to madrid?
Madrid's more important damnet :evil: .


Not same value, the +1 is good.
I'm saying to set it as starting neutral without the surrounding bonus options. :)


Mmmmmhhh...We'll see where discussion takes us, but I still like the sorrounding bonus.

mattosaurus wrote:I have to agree on the fact that the impassable lines need a spruce up.
'REALLLLY?!?!?'...Nah, I agree.
The font in the purple inset box is to short and fat. Maybe make columns of the text for the shorter entries, and a different font.
Under construction
Also, you might consider removing portugal and france from the map. You would have more space and you wouldn't need to invent a coutry border graphic.
The country border graphic is quite nice, we have allready made it.
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Re: Spain - Draft 1 <1&6>

Postby thenobodies80 on Sat May 09, 2009 7:11 am

I 'm not agree about removing france and portugal...

But you can use this neutral spaces differently:

France zone, why not move the title on that zone? So you can fodify the legend (add width and reduce height)
portugal zone., try to use this one to place the canarian inset? (only a test, not complitely sure how it looks)
Finally try to increase the transparency of the waving zone names on the map.

TNBDS

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Re: Spain - Draft 1 <1&6>

Postby Merker on Mon May 11, 2009 6:11 pm

Thanks TNBS80.


We'd really like more discussion, I think we got more when we were in the ideas and suggestions forum.
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Re: Spain - Draft 1 <1&6>

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon May 11, 2009 10:56 pm

I'm interested to see what you've got in store for your next update, and I'll comment more on that...


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Re: Spain - Draft 1 <1&6>

Postby Merker on Tue May 12, 2009 4:23 am

You've got a reservation Andy, hope to see you there :) .
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Re: Spain - Draft 1 <1&6>

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue May 12, 2009 5:14 am

Merker wrote:Thanks TNBS80.


We'd really like more discussion, I think we got more when we were in the ideas and suggestions forum.


Don't worry, you received a lot of feedback, now you have to do an update with your TO DO list things.
When people will see your next draft probably new suggestions/critics will come ;)

Have a nice day

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Re: Spain - Draft 1 <1&6>

Postby TaCktiX on Mon May 18, 2009 6:28 pm

Procrastination stinks. Anyways, let's have at this map.

Graphics
- I saw the artistic rendering of Spain before the continents and regions got added. It looked outright AWESOME. Right now that awesome is obscured by other colors that make it look like an optical illusion is being housed underneath the map as a gag. Go with a completely different way of denoting the bonus regions, as the full color overlay is detracting from what I think is the biggest lure for this map. Maybe army circles the color of the region, or an outlining in the color, but definitely bring out the art beneath.
- The constant waviness on naming the bonus regions, no. It makes it look like the entire map has been strung up on a flagpole and let fly. How am I supposed to put down my infantry piece when the entire thing could go flying everywhere? If possible, straighten them back out. The use of a different font is a good plus though, keep that to distinguish between regions and territories. (I am violating so many different CC rule conventions, I hope this is making sense)
- The impassables don't fit. Make them work more with the territory lines if they're purely artificial. Take a look at RjBeals' impassables from Brazil for some direction on that. If they AREN'T artificial (actual physical features between regions), spice it up with mountains and rivers.
- Come up with a new line to connect the Canaries with A Coruna. Think dotted line and/or a thicker less wavy one. The current one looks obviously drawn in haste. Also figure a better way to communicate that Mallorca connects to the Canaries, I missed it on first pass.
- I know we're NOT trying to feature Portugal (see: Iberia), but could we at least note what it is on the map?
- Whatever the black border on the coasts is, it's imperfect, as there's a smidge of Portugal that pokes out from under.
- The title looks lackluster, and the font reminds me of the Old West and not the Spanish Armada. A different choice and a more distinctive, set-apart title would do better.
- I don't think the impassables are necessary for delimiting Portugal and France from the map. The map is called Espana (make sure to get the tilde above the n), I doubt there will be confusion if people can't attack Southern France or Western Portugal.

Gameplay
- The legend needs work. A lot of it. Right now it's disorganized, and overall hard to read. Instead of alphabetical order, look into physical placement of continent order.
- The dark blue build-your-own bonus I don't think is necessary. Make it its own continent, as the current rules are confusing and unnecessary. You can name it in the sea, people will understand.

That's about all I can think of for right now, get to an update, stat, for you need to recover from getting
Image.
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Re: Spain - Draft 1 <1&6>

Postby Danyael on Tue May 19, 2009 1:16 pm

TaCktiX wrote:Procrastination stinks. Anyways, let's have at this map.

procasti is a favorite nation of mine but unfountunatly working one job and being on call 24/7 for another makes it tough to have more then an hour or so to work on this but i will have the next update by thursday
Graphics
- I saw the artistic rendering of Spain before the continents and regions got added. It looked outright AWESOME. Right now that awesome is obscured by other colors that make it look like an optical illusion is being housed underneath the map as a gag. Go with a completely different way of denoting the bonus regions, as the full color overlay is detracting from what I think is the biggest lure for this map. Maybe army circles the color of the region, or an outlining in the color, but definitely bring out the art beneath.

yes it was done with quite a bit of haste just so it would be up to the drafting room guidelines i'm playing with the layers so the texture is more prevalent cause i don't want it hidin
- The constant waviness on naming the bonus regions, no. It makes it look like the entire map has been strung up on a flagpole and let fly. How am I supposed to put down my infantry piece when the entire thing could go flying everywhere? If possible, straighten them back out. The use of a different font is a good plus though, keep that to distinguish between regions and territories. (I am violating so many different CC rule conventions, I hope this is making sense)

makes perfect sense i actually used the same font for every thing but the title name its the one merker wanted but i'll try other types and yes i'll loose the wavyness
- The impassables don't fit. Make them work more with the territory lines if they're purely artificial. Take a look at RjBeals' impassables from Brazil for some direction on that. If they AREN'T artificial (actual physical features between regions), spice it up with mountains and rivers.

as stated i'm working on them they will probably end up looking like the actual mountain ranges over lapping the borders so its not such and eye sore
- Come up with a new line to connect the Canaries with A Coruna. Think dotted line and/or a thicker less wavy one. The current one looks obviously drawn in haste. Also figure a better way to communicate that Mallorca connects to the Canaries, I missed it on first pass.

there will be port symbols for the long distance routes for clairity
- I know we're NOT trying to feature Portugal (see: Iberia), but could we at least note what it is on the map?
- Whatever the black border on the coasts is, it's imperfect, as there's a smidge of Portugal that pokes out from under.
- The title looks lackluster, and the font reminds me of the Old West and not the Spanish Armada. A different choice and a more distinctive, set-apart title would do better.

yes im going to add names to the oceans and non playable territs
the title is not going to look like that in the end but i have to disagree about it not looking spainish i have 14 different restaurant menus from spain that use that font so its why i used it for now but i'm looking for a better font as well it will most likely have flag colours with a few spainish items around it (bullfighter or tapas not sure what yet)
- I don't think the impassables are necessary for delimiting Portugal and France from the map. The map is called Espana (make sure to get the tilde above the n), I doubt there will be confusion if people can't attack Southern France or Western Portugal.

yes the impassables will be removed from those regions
and all the accents will be added as you may know there is more missing then just the one on espana

Gameplay
- The legend needs work. A lot of it. Right now it's disorganized, and overall hard to read. Instead of alphabetical order, look into physical placement of continent order.
- The dark blue build-your-own bonus I don't think is necessary. Make it its own continent, as the current rules are confusing and unnecessary. You can name it in the sea, people will understand.

yes legend will look alot better and is there just as a fill in for now
the area in the north will be a complete bonus as discussed earlier

i'll have it up by thursday i don't want to rush it because you see the quality drop but i'll have a solid update by this time then i want to go back to the goblin tribes map for that next update and then i'll be back to this one but when you work 60 or more hours a week i think you understand
thanks for the comments
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Re: Spain - Draft 1 <1&6>

Postby Godsav1 on Tue May 19, 2009 1:28 pm

Nice job! Looks like a sweet map to me. Cant wait to play it. :)
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Re: Spain - Draft 1 <1&6>

Postby Merker on Wed May 20, 2009 4:10 am

An update will be coming soon, I recently saw Danyaels work, it's very good, but I won't post it.
MrBenn wrote:On an a side-note, as a child I used to have a recurring nightmare about being chased round a supermarket by a crocodile pushing a shopping trolley and wearing an "I ♥ Shopping" t-shirt...

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Re: Spain - Draft 1 <1&6>

Postby Danyael on Wed May 20, 2009 10:29 pm

Alright V2
Click image to enlarge.
image

changes
changed wavy text
fixed up crappy legend
made the layers proper
moved around some names and army O's
change region font is that ok?
added port symbols for long paths
made small paths dots
worked on impassables
added new title any thoughts?

to do
canary islands
make portugal border better
edit :: i'm working on this all day tomorrow so great comments would be awesome
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