Portland [Quenched]

Care to peruse completed maps? Take a stroll through the Atlas.

Moderators: Cartographers, Global Moderators

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Re: Rose City (v 9, pg 4) - New Look

Postby flexmaster33 on Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:29 am

looks better each time I catch a glimpse lost....can't wait to get a chance to play it.
Current tourneys -- NCAA Basketball 2013-14, 2013 NFL season, 2013 FCS College Football playoffs

High rank: Captain. Place: 1,383. Points: 1,976
User avatar
Lieutenant flexmaster33
 
Posts: 3773
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:24 pm
Location: Portland, OR
Medals: 51
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (3)
General Achievement (2) Tournament Contribution (30)

Re: Rose City (v 10, pg 5) - New Look

Postby lostatlimbo on Sun May 03, 2009 3:46 pm

10th Draft update:
Altered borders in N & NE, by extending railroad tracks to St. Johns and shrinking Swan Island.
Removed 4-way border in NE.
Dropped a Yellow Max stop and added a new territory to NE (Cully).
#6 Max stop no longer attacks Oregon Zoo.
#5 Max stop unchanged. Downtown can be defended with 4 territories either way.
Changed train and bridge graphics.
Removed ability for bike lanes to attack each other.
Fareless square starts with 3 neutral. -1 army each turn held.

Image
User avatar
Lieutenant lostatlimbo
 
Posts: 1380
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:56 pm
Location: Portland, OR
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (2) Map Contribution (1) Tournament Contribution (8)

Re: Rose City (v 10, pg 5) - New Look

Postby mibi on Sun May 03, 2009 11:41 pm

Is Portland really as confusing and discombobulated as this map suggests?
User avatar
Captain mibi
 
Posts: 3360
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:19 pm
Location: The Great State of Vermont
Medals: 13
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5)
General Contribution (3)

Re: Rose City (v 10, pg 5) - New Look

Postby lostatlimbo on Mon May 04, 2009 7:55 pm

mibi wrote:Is Portland really as confusing and discombobulated as this map suggests?


boy, that's some helpful criticism. care to tell us what you find confusing?

Side note: I did just notice I need to re-add that you can't cross Max lines. I'll put that in the next update.
User avatar
Lieutenant lostatlimbo
 
Posts: 1380
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:56 pm
Location: Portland, OR
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (2) Map Contribution (1) Tournament Contribution (8)

Re: Rose City (v 10, pg 5) - New Look

Postby mibi on Mon May 04, 2009 11:06 pm

lostatlimbo wrote:
mibi wrote:Is Portland really as confusing and discombobulated as this map suggests?


boy, that's some helpful criticism. care to tell us what you find confusing?



You know I was initially all for this map in the beginning. As someone pointed out it did have a kitsch aspect to itself, though that has revealed it self over the course of the various drafts as plain old amateurism. It seems like the iconography on this map is growing like malignant tumors. In its current incarnation it looks as if you took a bag webdings and flung it at the map to see what stuck. A bike here, a rose there, a submarine or something, a bridge a rail a road, some parks that escaped from a demented game of Tetris. There is something near Hawthorn which is unlabeled, which I suppose doesn't matter because its also unlabeled in the legend too. It says its a detour, so I will just pretend it's door to another dimension. Oh and there is another detour which is a blue blob. I will have to check out the blue blob next time I am in Portland. I can only imagine a player trying to play this with out BOB. "I got a rose a shoe and a bike, what do I win?!" "No no, you need 6 bikes, or a rose a shoe and one of those black dildo things" An then you have what I am assuming are highways all wrapped up in the bonus structure, with negative bonuses too. With all those bonuses what is the point of even having separate districts in there. Infact, you might as well just take out the whole Porland thing and just have it be a map of random floating icons, because thats pretty much what this is already.

My advice is to take this map and shake the shit of it like an Etch-a-Sketch that has a picture of your ex-girlfriend on it. Shake it hard and long and see how many of those little doodads you can get to fall off. Go back to the Rose City and try to get a sense of what that city is about, and if you still comeback with the same Epcot-chique style you have now, I'd hang up those cartography gloves, because I would be right annoyed if I were a Portland resident and some jackass just turned my city into a child's place mat gone horribly wrong.
User avatar
Captain mibi
 
Posts: 3360
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:19 pm
Location: The Great State of Vermont
Medals: 13
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5)
General Contribution (3)

Re: Rose City (v 10, pg 5) - New Look

Postby lostatlimbo on Tue May 05, 2009 9:06 pm

mibi wrote:...I would be right annoyed if I were a Portland resident and some jackass just turned my city into a child's place mat gone horribly wrong.


Misplace anger much?

I know I've gone astray when the guy who created Supermax: Colored Button Riot! tells me I have too many icons.

The 'demented' parks are reasonably close to their actual shapes, though I can't say the same for scale and location - details sacrificed for clarity and balance.
Ditto for the two reservoirs, which seem quite clear as bodies of water. I'd hoped the grey dimensional door would be mistaken for a maddening maze of residential roads - which any Portland resident would instantly recognize as the "no-drive" zone Ladd's Circle.

I don't expect that labeling it as such in the legend will help explain this, but it is clearly an obstruction. Do forgive me for being a little creative and adding detours that stray from the typical mountain-river-fence trifecta that marks most of the 130 maps in play. I'm equally as sorry for using bikes and parks, instead of the typical cannons and battleships. Are you angry that I have too many icons or just that they aren't violent enough for your tastes?

Since Portland isn't actually a war zone, I thought I'd try something new and highlight the things that make Portland unique. The fact that you can easily get anywhere in town by bike (without being run over) isn't something you can say about most US cities. Ditto to an overabundance of park space. If you had bothered to read the legend, you'd know that the "highways" are a light rail transit system (with the highest ridership in the US). These aren't frivolous icons - they are the whole purpose of having a Portland map. I suppose I could have made the 67th war map or drawn artificial borders over yet another random country, but I elected to try something new instead.

And yes, I opted for a kitschy look. From the very beginning, it was meant to look more like a tourist-y brochure extolling all these Portland-y characteristics. I think clean, clear lines and bold colors work well for this map and, again I'll reference NYC map as my initial inspiration in this regard.

Despite your vitriol, your overlying point was not lost on me. The map was getting a bit cluttered visually, so I've made some changes to minimize this by toning down the boldest icons. I've also converted the bike lanes into their own territories - which I believe improves the look & gameplay and gives the bike lanes more purpose.

As for your ex-girlfriend issues - I can't help you, but there are more fish in the sea. When you've gotten your angst under control, come back and let me know if my next update soothes the pain.
User avatar
Lieutenant lostatlimbo
 
Posts: 1380
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:56 pm
Location: Portland, OR
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (2) Map Contribution (1) Tournament Contribution (8)

Re: Rose City (v 10, pg 5) - New Look

Postby danfrank on Tue May 05, 2009 9:25 pm

lostatlimbo wrote:
mibi wrote:...I would be right annoyed if I were a Portland resident and some jackass just turned my city into a child's place mat gone horribly wrong.


Misplace anger much?

I know I've gone astray when the guy who created Supermax: Colored Button Riot! tells me I have too many icons.

The 'demented' parks are reasonably close to their actual shapes, though I can't say the same for scale and location - details sacrificed for clarity and balance.
Ditto for the two reservoirs, which seem quite clear as bodies of water. I'd hoped the grey dimensional door would be mistaken for a maddening maze of residential roads - which any Portland resident would instantly recognize as the "no-drive" zone Ladd's Circle.

I don't expect that labeling it as such in the legend will help explain this, but it is clearly an obstruction. Do forgive me for being a little creative and adding detours that stray from the typical mountain-river-fence trifecta that marks most of the 130 maps in play. I'm equally as sorry for using bikes and parks, instead of the typical cannons and battleships. Are you angry that I have too many icons or just that they aren't violent enough for your tastes?

Since Portland isn't actually a war zone, I thought I'd try something new and highlight the things that make Portland unique. The fact that you can easily get anywhere in town by bike (without being run over) isn't something you can say about most US cities. Ditto to an overabundance of park space. If you had bothered to read the legend, you'd know that the "highways" are a light rail transit system (with the highest ridership in the US). These aren't frivolous icons - they are the whole purpose of having a Portland map. I suppose I could have made the 67th war map or drawn artificial borders over yet another random country, but I elected to try something new instead.

And yes, I opted for a kitschy look. From the very beginning, it was meant to look more like a tourist-y brochure extolling all these Portland-y characteristics. I think clean, clear lines and bold colors work well for this map and, again I'll reference NYC map as my initial inspiration in this regard.

Despite your vitriol, your overlying point was not lost on me. The map was getting a bit cluttered visually, so I've made some changes to minimize this by toning down the boldest icons. I've also converted the bike lanes into their own territories - which I believe improves the look & gameplay and gives the bike lanes more purpose.

As for your ex-girlfriend issues - I can't help you, but there are more fish in the sea. When you've gotten your angst under control, come back and let me know if my next update soothes the pain.



Well , he`s from the great state of vermont, Misplaced anger ? only if he is a conservative. Vermont ranks right up there with california as being the far looney left.. Constructive criticism can not be expected from indivuals of this type. Just look at what they did to joe the plumber and Miss california...
Image
Sergeant danfrank
 
Posts: 600
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:19 am
Medals: 46
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (8) Tournament Contribution (1)

Re: Rose City (v 10, pg 5) - New Look

Postby mibi on Tue May 05, 2009 9:26 pm

lostatlimbo wrote:I know I've gone astray when the guy who created Supermax: Colored Button Riot! tells me I have too many icons.


lol, nice one. I wonder if Lack can do a name change on that map.
User avatar
Captain mibi
 
Posts: 3360
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:19 pm
Location: The Great State of Vermont
Medals: 13
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5)
General Contribution (3)

Re: Rose City (v 11, pg 5) graphic & gameplay edits

Postby lostatlimbo on Tue May 05, 2009 9:28 pm

11th Draft update:
  • Added 4 new territories (N Bike Lane, NE Bike Lane, SE Bike Lane, Forest Park Bike Lane) in place of former Bike bonuses. These territories start 6 neutral.
    Now that there are less of these and they are separate (and neutral) territories, I think its okay to have them attack each other. I like the idea of them being a way to move around the map. Neutral armies prevent them from being as detrimental as before and I've upped the bonus to 8 since it will be harder to capture and keep them.
    Is it clear enough that they are connected or does this need to be explained better? Should I add 2 more territories some where for an even 48?
  • I toned down some of the stronger visuals to reduce clutter. I "un-blobbed" the reservoirs to the best of my ability and flattened out various other icons.
  • I added Max Lines to the Detour (Don't Cross) list and labeled these. I don't know what else to call Ladd's Circle. Road maze? If the neighborhoods don't need explanation - why this?
  • I'm open to suggestions for a better legend background.

Image
User avatar
Lieutenant lostatlimbo
 
Posts: 1380
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:56 pm
Location: Portland, OR
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (2) Map Contribution (1) Tournament Contribution (8)

Re: Rose City (v 10, pg 5) - New Look

Postby lostatlimbo on Tue May 05, 2009 9:33 pm

danfrank wrote:Just look at what they did to joe the plumber and Miss california...


Aren't they in one of Obama's Socialist Reprogramming Camps by now?

(Pssst... I don't want to alarm you, but Oregon is also known as one of the most liberal states in the Confederacy, ...I mean, the USA. Ooops!)
User avatar
Lieutenant lostatlimbo
 
Posts: 1380
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:56 pm
Location: Portland, OR
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (2) Map Contribution (1) Tournament Contribution (8)

Re: Rose City (v 11, pg 5) graphic & gameplay edits

Postby iancanton on Thu May 07, 2009 6:50 pm

lostatlimbo wrote:11th Draft update:
[list][*]Added 4 new territories (N Bike Lane, NE Bike Lane, SE Bike Lane, Forest Park Bike Lane) in place of former Bike bonuses. These territories start 6 neutral.
Now that there are less of these and they are separate (and neutral) territories, I think its okay to have them attack each other. I like the idea of them being a way to move around the map. Neutral armies prevent them from being as detrimental as before and I've upped the bonus to 8 since it will be harder to capture and keep them.

6 starting neutrals simply means that no-one will attack the bike lanes, so they'll be useless as a method of transport.

lostatlimbo wrote:Should I add 2 more territories some where for an even 48?

i strongly recommend that the number of non-neutral starting regions is either 42 to 44 or 52, but certainly not 48. this is because, with 48 starting regions, each player in a 2v2 game starts with 12 regions so, by conquering only 1 region, player 1 can knock down player 2's deployment to only 3 armies before he's had a chance to do anything.

lostatlimbo wrote:#5 Max stop unchanged. Downtown can be defended with 4 territories either way.

the downtown bonus needs defenders on all 6 regions, since #5 max can attack both pioneer and goose hollow. if u delete the pioneer exit and change the goose hollow one so it goes to nob hill instead, then downtown will have only 4 border regions (but it also splits downtown in half, with no easy way to go between the two).

ian. :)
Image
User avatar
Colonel iancanton
Cartography Assistant
Cartography Assistant
 
Posts: 1683
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:40 am
Location: europe
Medals: 49
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) General Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (6) General Contribution (12)

Re: Rose City (v 11, pg 5) graphic & gameplay edits

Postby lostatlimbo on Thu May 07, 2009 7:50 pm

iancanton wrote:6 starting neutrals simply means that no-one will attack the bike lanes, so they'll be useless as a method of transport.

Good point. Initially, you'd have to off 12 armies to get anywhere. What about 4 neutrals? Or 3?

iancanton wrote:the downtown bonus needs defenders on all 6 regions, since #5 max can attack both pioneer and goose hollow. if u delete the pioneer exit and change the goose hollow one so it goes to nob hill instead, then downtown will have only 4 border regions (but it also splits downtown in half, with no easy way to go between the two).

I'm afraid you are wrong here. To defend downtown, you only need to place troops on Nob Hill, The Pearl, PSU and Max Stop #5. This makes it somewhat comparable to SE, in that you'd need to hold 7 territories, but only defend 4. They both have a bonus of +5.

I'll try to make another update this weekend. Thanks for the insight, ian!
User avatar
Lieutenant lostatlimbo
 
Posts: 1380
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:56 pm
Location: Portland, OR
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (2) Map Contribution (1) Tournament Contribution (8)

Re: Rose City/Portland, OR (v 12, pg 5) gameplay edits & poll

Postby lostatlimbo on Mon May 11, 2009 2:20 am

12th Draft update:
Removed Bike Lane bonus and lowered neutrals to 3 a piece - resetting if held one round.
Transit Center is now -1 only if a MAX bonus is held.
Raised MAX bonuses by 2 each.
Lowered N bonus to 3.

Click image to enlarge.
image
Last edited by lostatlimbo on Wed May 13, 2009 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Lieutenant lostatlimbo
 
Posts: 1380
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:56 pm
Location: Portland, OR
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (2) Map Contribution (1) Tournament Contribution (8)

Re: Rose City/Portland, OR (v 12, pg 5) gameplay edits & poll

Postby lostatlimbo on Mon May 11, 2009 11:05 pm

poll bump
User avatar
Lieutenant lostatlimbo
 
Posts: 1380
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:56 pm
Location: Portland, OR
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (2) Map Contribution (1) Tournament Contribution (8)

Re: Rose City/Portland, OR (v 12, pg 5) gameplay edits & poll

Postby Teflon Kris on Wed May 13, 2009 5:21 pm

HI

Latest Changes
On your latest update you mention bonus changes - however, they seem the same as previously in the update.

Bike Territories
I'm wondering if you will still have the same problem with killer neutrals, as opposed to the large-ish (6) neutrals you had before.

Players will often go through one killer neutral territory to reach an opponent (and hit their bonus etc) but I imagine it would be extremely rare for players to lose troops going through two killer neutral territories. I can see your aim here - you want the bike routes to be an alternative, but difficult attack route. Perhaps you could have 'decay' on the bikes instead (i.e. they lose 1 army per round rather than resetting to neutral)? It may also be worth considering why the bike lanes would have decay - you may need to explain this in the key (e.g. they are too narrow for military operations).

Number of Territories
As far as I can see, you have 48, with 4 starting neutral (the bikes) - 44 starting territories - this is a great number for gameplay purposes as ian mentioned above.

Metro Bonuses
My reading of the bonus key (and probably most players' reading) is that only one player could hold metro bonus(es) due to the central junction being required by all. Just thought I'd double-check. This would make the central territory a key position, although it may deter many players from trying to secure a metro bonus. I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with that, just food for thought when thinking through how games may develop.
User avatar
Lieutenant Teflon Kris
 
Posts: 3684
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:39 pm
Location: Lancashire, United Kingdom
Medals: 170
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (4) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (4)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (4) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (3) Random Map Achievement (4)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (2) Bot Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (30)
General Achievement (14) Clan Achievement (19) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (32) General Contribution (8)

PreviousNext

Return to The Atlas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Login