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Re: American Revolution *Poll*

Postby Industrial Helix on Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:22 am

Thanks, Mr. Benn...

Ok, there's a new poll up regarding the nature of British Canada.

Personally, I'm partial to either leaving it as it is or making it a single man neutral with a 2 or 3 auto deploy.

My reasoning is this: The American War of independence obviously involved Canada and the Americans launched an offensive there. I figure if the American's didn't do anything about the troops in Canada then they would have built up as a base for the British to launch further attacks in the colonies. Thoughts?

Captain: While adding the French ships would be cool, I think I'm going to leave it based around the land war because I'm afraid of doing too much and trying to fit too much in. The ships that are there don't really reflect any particular side, but rather the sea routes used during the war.

As for thinness, I don't really think there's much you can do about getting around that. They were after all coastal colonies. I hope the ships and the Indian terrs. balances this out somewhat.
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Re: American Revolution *updated and with poll*

Postby el-presidente on Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:52 pm

Isn't it a little tall and thin? I think you should make it a little wider. I like the idea of british canada because I think that it will allow people to stay in the game with the autodeploy and willl give people the oppertunity to then come back and even out the game.





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Re: American Revolution *updated and with poll*

Postby Dublanous1 on Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:06 am

Looks Great, my only wonder is even though it isn't very important, there is a light brown "I don't know what" at the bottom left of the map. Also, if you want me to make you a sig for this map (or others) PM me.
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Re: American Revolution *updated and with poll*

Postby Industrial Helix on Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:04 pm

El-pres. - Do you mean like the graphics are too thin for the 13 colonies and it doesn't look right or that just the map in general is too thin. I'm not sure that there is too much to do about it as the 13 colonies were long and skinny as they were coastal colonies. I think its just something that's going to have to be dealt with because of the nature of the territories involved. I tried to round it out a little with the inclusion of the Indian terrs. and the ships. I believe that this will keep the game play a little more circular.

As for the auto-deploy, your thoughts are pretty much what I was thinking when I decided to make the gameplay as it is. I think it should serve as a safe base for a player without too many options, much like the British in the war.

Dub. - I see what you're talking about, I think its some leftover from the map base that I used. I'll clean it up with the next update. As for a sig, that would be great cause I def. need to advertise this thing. Check your inbox :)
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Re: American Revolution *updated and with poll*

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:20 pm

Click image to enlarge.
image


Ok, here's the Mark III. What else do I need at this point to get classified as an advanced draft?

Changes:

Cleaned up some graphics

Added bonus area names in the legend.

Added a logo

Moved the abbreviations to under the rules area.
Last edited by Industrial Helix on Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: American Revolution *updated and with poll*

Postby tlane on Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:24 pm

i don't think it is necessary to have
"no bonus"
in the rules, as long as there is nothing that says there is a bonus i think it is fine

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Re: American Revolution *updated and with poll*

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:28 am

Hmm... that's a good point tlane. Does anyone else have an opinion on this?

If I took out the no bonus part in the rules, would you assume there was no bonus or would there be confusion over whether the Indian territories are part of a state's bonus structure or if they hold a bonus on their own?
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Re: American Revolution *updated and with poll*

Postby whitestazn88 on Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:49 am

interesting concept. i look forward to looking at this later on in its development
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Re: American Revolution *updated and with poll*

Postby Industrial Helix on Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:45 am

Hmm, well the poll seems to indicate the British Canada ought to go neutral. So i'm going to go with that, and knock down the Indian terr. to a killer neutral 2. British Canada to a starting neutral of 3 with autodeploy +1 when occupied.


Also, Mr. Benn, could you reset the poll again, when you get a chance, please? Thanks!
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Re: American Revolution *updated 4/16/09*

Postby spiesr on Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:40 am

I am not sure about having BC neutral. It might not see much use. Is it really worth it to take out the killer neutral and the neutrals on it to get the +1 autodeploy? Becuae you can't even do alot with the auto deploy, you can't just fortify it out to somwhere useful because there will be a neutral in your way. If you every wan't to use it all all you have to kill the killer neutral every time.
Also, micmac territory seems kind of useless as it only connects to another killer neutral so it would be almost easier or more worthwhile to go aroung the other way in most situations.
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Re: American Revolution *updated 4/16/09*

Postby Industrial Helix on Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:44 pm

spiesr: I know what you mean, but I think the general feeling of everyone following this map is that having BC open to random drop that it would give too much of an unfair advantage to whatever random player. One thing about reinforcing the auto deploy is that if you hole any of the colony terrs. and BC with a quick knock out of the neutral 2 men on Indian terr. you could reinforce it out and into the main game.

Theoretically, you could capture it and let it sit a couple rounds and bring the men back into your game, while the neutrals act as buffers against your enemy. Maybe less so with just 1 autodeploy, Do you think upping the auto deploy to 2 or even 3 would bring BC more into the game?

Thoughts anyone?
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Re: American Revolution *updated 4/16/09*

Postby ustus on Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:26 pm

Industrial Helix wrote: Do you think upping the auto deploy to 2 or even 3 would bring BC more into the game?

Thoughts anyone?


Honestly?? i would never touch BC. I think i outlined my reasoning earlier in the thread, and Speisr more or less said the same things i did. Maybe with a 2 or 3 autodeploy, but I'd still see it as a waste of troops to take in the first place. Sorry....
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Re: American Revolution *updated 4/16/09*

Postby bryguy on Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:47 pm

Loving this map Industrial :)

1) The texture in the ocean seems really tough
2) Not all the states had the shapes that they have today. Would it be possible for the state shapes to be corrected?
3) In the legend, the 3s look alot like 8s IMO
4) It is hard to see the white attack dotes from BH to NY
5) Is the name of the highest boat Boston? Its confusing to me...
6) I don't think that BC will ever be touched, unless you increase the auto deploy at least by 4. A deploy of 2 or 3 isn't really much, especially if reinforcements are chained. In a game, with BC at the current auto deploy level, I wouldn't take it for all the bananas in the world (Whoah where did that come from :shock: ), but if you increased the auto deploy to at least 5 (Maybe 4), then it would make it more worth wild.
7) I cannot see he Micmac territory being used much, as it is the same number of territories to go from Bemis Heights to NH via Micmac-Algoncin as it is to get there via Saratoga-Bunker Hill.
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Re: American Revolution *updated 4/16/09*

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:33 pm

ustus - Yeah, The more this map progresses the more I'm starting to wonder if I ought to just open all the killer neutrals up to deployment as well as BC or leave just BC neutral w/ adeploy. Not entirely sure yet. But I'm open to suggestions and am trying out a few ideas.

bryguy - Thanks for the feedback firstly.
1) Not the first time I've heard it, I'm going to try with the blue scale a little and if not then the old paper texture, keep your eyes open for future updates on that.
2) Right you are, I think Bruceswar mentioned that earlier. I did a little research and the shapes of the states vary from time to time, for example, tennessee was part of N carolina for a while. I'm hesitant to change it for two reasons, 1. The shape of the map will lose some recognition 2. it will alter territories and continent bonuses, especially Georgia.

However, the more I think about it the more I'm reluctantly accepting that it's going to have to change. Expect the first revision with the next update.
3) and 4) Good points. Gonna have to tackle that.
5)Yes, Boston is the name of the highest boat. It seems pretty clear cut to me, but I'm biased. Is it too close to the land and dots?
6) That'd be a big bonus. I'm assuming you mean worth taking through the killer neutrals for a 5 man bonus?
7) Hmm... good point. The idea of putting the Micmac route in there is that it follows Benedict Arnold's trek up to Canada. Maybe a little rearranging for the New York terrs. I'll play around with it.

Thanks again for the feedback, I def. appreciate it.
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Re: American Revolution *Poll*

Postby alstergren on Thu May 07, 2009 1:19 pm

Bruceswar wrote:When I think of the American Revolution, I do not envision a map like this. You have to remember that the states did not look like they do today, well some of them at least. Note the Pink Highlighted areas..

Image


Yes. Agree. Was just about to make a post that as far as I remember from history classes, there were 13 original colonies that committed the heresy to declare war upon their rightful ruler. Why aren't there 13 colonies in the map? And what about the rather important British possessions to the north? The map is fine, but if depicting history it would be nice if as accurate as possible.
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Re: American Revolution *updated 4/16/09*

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri May 08, 2009 8:03 am

alstergren - in short, agreed. I'm trying to make changes to the map right now and shaping the western border to look like the map bruceswar posted. I'm hitting some bumps though and it looks like i might have to freehand the western border, lets hope four years of drawing classes pays off!

As for the British northern territories, we've got the terr. marked British Canada which will feature an autodeploy... there's a bit of a debate over how much it should deploy, whether or not it should be neutral, ect. in the pages before this.

As for whether or not it has thirteen colonies, all thirteen are represented albeit not as individual bonus areas and with their 1790s borders (soon to be changed to the 1775 borders). I intend to stick with lest it becomes a debate and some good ideas are put forward, always open to suggestion.
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Re: American Revolution *updated 4/16/09*

Postby alexandrois on Sun May 10, 2009 10:34 am

Hey, could you split british canada up into maybe 2/3 regions and maybe have a bonus of 1 for holding them?
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Re: American Revolution *updated 4/16/09*

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue May 12, 2009 4:31 pm

Hmmm... that may be a really good idea. It'd still keep the effect of having a wilderness buffer but yet get around the british canada autodeploy problem.

Thoughts anyone? I might just run with this.

Thanks for the good feedback alexandrois
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Re: American Revolution *updated 4/16/09*

Postby pamoa on Fri May 15, 2009 4:52 am

:?: are you in competition with 1776! - Battlefields of The American Revolution thread :?:
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Re: American Revolution *updated 4/16/09*

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon May 18, 2009 9:54 am

pamoa wrote::?: are you in competition with 1776! - Battlefields of The American Revolution thread :?:


I don't believe so. He messaged me beforehand just to make sure there were no problems or conflicts with our respective maps. Personally, i have no problem with his map as I think he's aiming for a totally different game play than what I am and I think we both have much to offer with our maps. So no, I don't believe there is a competition between us nor do I intend for there to be one.

Update: Should have a revised map coming up within the next few days, so stay tuned.
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Re: American Revolution *updated 4/16/09*

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon May 18, 2009 2:26 pm

ok, ok. got a new version of the map this time with most recommended changes made. Here's the Mk IV

Click image to enlarge.
image


1) took out the "No Bonus" from the rules thing and added the new flag for B.C.
2) I revised the gameplay for B.C. it now deploys much higher but but can be a tad more difficult to obtain. no autodeploy.
3) I fixed the problem with the 3s and they are now readable.
4) Obviously, i changed the map to more resemble the territories as they looked back then. Consequentially, I lost a few terrs. as a result and had to restructure.
5) Virginia's bonus has been lowered one to reflect the fact that it lost a terr.
6) Carolina's bonus has gone up as another territory has been added.
7) Massachusetts Bay has been added (Maine) and Micmac Territory moved over one.


Anyway, thoughts and comments are very appreciated, only with your help can this map see its way to completion.
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Re: American Revolution *updated 5/18/09*

Postby Elijah S on Mon May 18, 2009 2:54 pm

Helix - This map is coming along nicely!
I particularly like the way you've placed the bonus graphics - nice touch.
My only suggestion might be to add texture or additional objects to the left side, as there seems to be large areas of empty space.
Best of luck!
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Re: American Revolution *updated 5/18/09*

Postby TaCktiX on Mon May 18, 2009 7:11 pm

Okay, when I look at this map, I think "cool, the 13 Colonies", NOT the American Revolution. Granted some territories are named for famous battles of said war, and there are British areas on the map, but I just don't feel like it aptly shows a war. This likely is just me, but something to keep in mind.

Graphics
- Most of the territory names are aligned with the bottom of the map, but some of them, particularly in the south, seem to move sideways to fit into the territory. If Massachusetts Bay is any indication, you should be just fine with having them coming out of the borders a smidge.
- The dotted lines to the ships are inconsistent in their placing. Some of them go right up to the ship, others stop short. Try to come up with a universal "distance from" and stick to it for all connections.
- The stars around American Revolution look like a distended disc instead of the intended shifted circle. Doing a re-look at it might be necessary.

Gameplay
- The British bonus is unnecessary, and the +6 bonus justifying the 5 neutral territories I think is unnecessary as well. If anyone eventually held it, the resetting 3-neutrals would make it almost impossible to break. Remove the Brits from Canada, and use the Indian Territories as quick connections between different states, just at a price.
- The description of the killer neutral in the legend isn't exactly correct. It would reset to neutral 3 on the holding player's next turn.

That's all I have for now, but nevertheless you got
Image.
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Re: American Revolution *updated 5/19/09*

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue May 19, 2009 1:16 pm

Elijah S - Thanks for the feed back, I've been giving some thought to the left side and still am unsure. Any ideas would be appreciated. Quote, maybe a graphic or something.

Alright tacktix, you gave something to work with here. Here's what I've got.

I changed the dotted lines to be more consistent and i touched up a few other graphics problems i had as well. I changed the slanted names to align more with the bottom and altered some borders as well. Most fit in their terr. save Appalachia, Chattahoochee, Allegheny and a few others. I'll see what others say but the only one that is too big, imo is Appalachia. I messed around with the title as I've been meaning to do, you're not the only one to say that and to be honest its pretty much true, esp. if I take out the Canada thing. I suppose Elijah S's map is more American Rev. than mine. So I played with it, not sure which I like yet:

The 13 Colonies
The 13 American Colonies (i think i like this one best, see below)
The Thirteen American Colonies

And lastly I took the Canada feature out to see how it might look. As I've feared, there's a lot of empty space and I'm not sure what I can do about it given the dimensions of the playable landmass. Any thoughts on all this would be appreciated.

Click image to enlarge.
image


NO CANADA:

Click image to enlarge.
image


Discussion points:
1) Do you like no Canada better than having playable Canada?
2) Is it too spacey in the upper left? (I'm thinking maybe add a quote or something up there.. ideas? thoughts?)

All thoughts and comments appreciated, I can't make this map alone!
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Re: American Revolution *updated 5/18/09*

Postby whitestazn88 on Tue May 19, 2009 11:32 pm

i did like the canada bonus as a way of taking up space, although the structure of the bonus was confusing... was it a total of 6 with boats and canada or was canada a completely different bonus?

the above question brings me to my next point which was that the canada bonus wasn't really that cool... so taking it out is better.

as for making more playable area, maybe you could incorporate indian territories more? like have another bonus of +1 maybe per tribe, but each tribe would be like 2 territs, with 1 of the 2 being neutrals? i don't really know... or maybe you could tilt the playable area to the left, bring it down a bit and try to enlarge it...

again, i'm not totally sure for playable area, but i'm sure that i like the 3 canadian flags out of the way
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