Castle Lands [Quenched]

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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:30 am

Hopscotcher wrote:I played a game and I think it said that I could assault The Ridge from Coppiece. I didn't try it, because that is not where I wanted to attack, but you might want to check that out.

Fun Map!

ttfn,
Hops


Where do we write that? :?

Towers and catapults with the same coloured flag can bombard each other

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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby OlJock99 on Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:11 am

I agree with the 12 region comment. That's my biggest beef with the Siege Map. Getting rid of 2 neutrals would help a ton.
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby Hopscotcher on Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:33 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:
Hopscotcher wrote:I played a game and I think it said that I could assault The Ridge from Coppiece. I didn't try it, because that is not where I wanted to attack, but you might want to check that out.

Fun Map!

ttfn,
Hops


Where do we write that? :?

Towers and catapults with the same coloured flag can bombard each other


Coppiece is yellow. Ridge is red.
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby Hopscotcher on Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:35 pm

OlJock99 wrote:I agree with the 12 region comment. That's my biggest beef with the Siege Map. Getting rid of 2 neutrals would help a ton.


Perhaps the Catapults start off as Neuts as well?
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby Mr_Adams on Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:48 pm

8 for the courts seems excesive. why not 6?
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby Arachnophobia on Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:39 am

One thing (dunno if it has been discussed before, too lazy to read the whole thread):
How do you attack the castle? There's walls around it (obviously), implying an impassable, but no way to get in, except for bombarding (which doesnt capture the towers). So just from looking at it, I see no way to attack the castle. Which is bad and should be corrected :P
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby lozzini on Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:34 am

Arachnophobia wrote:One thing (dunno if it has been discussed before, too lazy to read the whole thread):
How do you attack the castle? There's walls around it (obviously), implying an impassable, but no way to get in, except for bombarding (which doesnt capture the towers). So just from looking at it, I see no way to attack the castle. Which is bad and should be corrected :P



I belive, you can bombard from the catapults, or you can take the towers from where they connect with the outside, and then the towers can attack the castle

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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby Hatchman on Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:02 am

I'm just tired of this recent trend of maps with a billion neutrals. Bogs ya down. And it's mainly to minimize a first-round advantage in 1vs1 games I believe? Too much catering to one style of play. Perhaps there should be two versions of each map: a 1vs1 version and an everything else version... :-k
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:30 am

lozzini wrote:
Arachnophobia wrote:One thing (dunno if it has been discussed before, too lazy to read the whole thread):
How do you attack the castle? There's walls around it (obviously), implying an impassable, but no way to get in, except for bombarding (which doesnt capture the towers). So just from looking at it, I see no way to attack the castle. Which is bad and should be corrected :P



I belive, you can bombard from the catapults, or you can take the towers from where they connect with the outside, and then the towers can attack the castle

Lozz


Yes, correct.

The castle could be attacked only by the 4 towers. (and bombarded by catatpults)
The towers can be attacked by the courts that border with them. (there's a door) ;)

hatchman wrote:I'm just tired of this recent trend of maps with a billion neutrals. Bogs ya down. And it's mainly to minimize a first-round advantage in 1vs1 games I believe? Too much catering to one style of play. Perhaps there should be two versions of each map: a 1vs1 version and an everything else version... :-k


It's no possible to have 2 versions of a unique map.
Anyway, we're working to fix the neutral/starting points :)
I'll be ready in a couple of minutes.

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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:29 am

OK, i'd like to know what you think about this option:

  • Bridges will start with 2 neutrals. (current:3)
    Code: Select all
    <territory>
          <name>East Bridge</name>
          <borders>
             <border>Knight</border>
             <border>Woodland</border>
          </borders>
          <coordinates>
             <smallx>398</smallx>
             <smally>250</smally>
             <largex>529</largex>
             <largey>327</largey>
          </coordinates>
             <neutral>2</neutral>
    </territory>
    <territory>
          <name>North Bridge</name>
          <borders>
             <border>Earl</border>
             <border>Oilseed</border>
          </borders>
          <coordinates>
             <smallx>260</smallx>
             <smally>143</smally>
             <largex>349</largex>
             <largey>184</largey>
          </coordinates>
             <neutral>2</neutral>
    </territory>
    <territory>
          <name>South Bridge</name>
          <borders>
             <border>Bishop</border>
             <border>Peak</border>
          </borders>
          <coordinates>
             <smallx>285</smallx>
             <smally>369</smally>
             <largex>381</largex>
             <largey>483</largey>
          </coordinates>
             <neutral>2</neutral>     
    </territory>
    <territory>
          <name>West Bridge</name>
          <borders>
             <border>Marquess</border>
             <border>Savannah</border> 
          </borders>
          <coordinates>
             <smallx>144</smallx>
             <smally>275</smally>
             <largex>195</largex>
             <largey>357</largey>
          </coordinates>
             <neutral>2</neutral>
    </territory>
  • Only half of the courts will be starting positions, i picked out the 4 which border with the bridges. (current: 8 courts are starting positions)
  • The 4 towers will be coded as starting positions. (current: 2 armies starting neutrals)
    Code: Select all
    <positions>
          <position>
          <territory>Bishop</territory>
          </position>
          <position>
          <territory>Earl</territory>
          </position>
          <position>
          <territory>Knight</territory>
          </position>
          <position>
          <territory>Marquess</territory>
          </position>
          <position>
          <territory>Desert Tower</territory>
          </position>
          <position>
          <territory>Field Tower</territory>
          </position>
          <position>
          <territory>Forest Tower</territory>
          </position>
          <position>
          <territory>Mountain Tower</territory>
          </position>
    </positions>
  • The courts bonus will be reduced to 6 (current: +8)
    Code: Select all
    <continent>
          <name>Courts</name>
          <bonus>6</bonus>
          <components>
             <territory>Abbot</territory>
             <territory>Baron</territory>
             <territory>Bishop</territory>
             <territory>Duke</territory>
             <territory>Earl</territory>
             <territory>Knight</territory>
             <territory>Marquess</territory>
             <territory>Viscount</territory>
          </components>
    </continent>

So forced neutrals are reduced from 9 to 5.A player can't start the game with the courts bonus because 50% of them are splitted. The game will be played a bit more in the middle part of the map, but the lower neutral bridges could give an easy choice to connect outside and inside troops.
What do you think?
Suggestions/critics are welcome! :)

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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby pikkio on Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:40 am

with this changes the map will be balanced in our opinion. please tell us what you think about. ^_^

only a question: if we change those things, what will happen to the current opened games? do they continue with the last version or do the map rules change in the middle of a game?
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:57 am

pikkio wrote:with this changes the map will be balanced in our opinion. please tell us what you think about. ^_^

only a question: if we change those things, what will happen to the current opened games? do they continue with the last version or do the map rules change in the middle of a game?


Warning: Maps designated as "Beta" might have unbalanced gameplay and undergo changes mid-game. Play at your own risk!

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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby Arachnophobia on Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:30 am

ok so there's doors. Dunno, I didnt even see the doors :p. Maybe put arrows to make it clear? Or put roads in the lands that connect them with the doors (to put emphasis on them...)
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby Hatchman on Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:08 am

Map Inspect revealed no doors to me... :-s
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:23 am

hatchman wrote:Map Inspect revealed no doors to me... :-s


I rechecked the xml

From map inspect:

Towers (4) | 4 |
Desert Tower <2> ==> Baron {3} Castle <4>
Field Tower <2> ==> Abbot {3} Castle <4>
Forest Tower <2> ==> Castle <4> Duke {3}
Mountain Tower <2> ==> Castle <4> Viscount {3}


Tower border with adjacent territories and castle.
So you have to take the tower to go to the castle.
For a better explanation here a part of the xml file for a tower and his adjacent territory:
Mountain Tower
Code: Select all
<territory>
   <name>Mountain Tower</name>
   <borders>
   <border>Castle</border>
   <border>Viscount</border>
   </borders>
   <bombardments>
   <bombardment>Ridge</bombardment>
   </bombardments>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>305</smallx>
   <smally>293</smally>
   <largex>406</largex>
   <largey>382</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>2</neutral>
</territory>

Viscount
Code: Select all
<territory>
   <name>Viscount</name>
   <borders>
   <border>Baron</border>
   <border>Bishop</border>
   <border>Duke</border>
   <border>Knight</border>
   <border>Mountain Tower</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>351</smallx>
   <smally>282</smally>
   <largex>469</largex>
   <largey>367</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>


Obviously the door is the graphic way to explain this ;)

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Re: Castle Lands [Beta]

Postby Mr_Adams on Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:07 am

hatchman wrote:Map Inspect revealed no doors to me... :-s


the doors are mostly hidden by the armie circles at the bottom of the towers. it's supposed to represt the way in to the tower. is not a terr.
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta] what changes we should make? (poll)

Postby pikkio on Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:02 am

i opened a poll to understand what you think about the possible changes and to know if we must change all the things or only one or two.

in particular, i thought that if the towers don't start neutral, the +8 bonus of the courts is balanced, cause it's more difficult to hold it (many people to fight in the inner map..) and certainly you can defend less in the borders to the bridges cause there are neutrals army that helps you, but in the borders to the towers probably you will have a lot to fight with someone that are trying to hold tower's bonus (more easy to hold..).
if the towers remain neutrals, conquer and defend the courts are too easy and +8 bonus is too much.

so in my opinion, if we keep the towers neutral we must reduce the courts bonus but if we make the towers starting positions the +8 bonus of the courts is ok.
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta] what changes we should make? (poll)

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:45 am

I do think 8 as a bonus for the court is high. Actually, all the zone bonuses seem high.

However, as per the deployment.. I am not sure how big a problem this really is. Many maps start this way in 1 vs 1, but they are still fun to play. That is just one of the things about 1 vs 1.. drops can matter more than when there are more players. (I believe I have played enough maps to have an opinion ;) )

If you see this as serious problem, what about simply coding in a bonus army for the first turn of the second player or for each player's first turn?
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta] what changes we should make? (poll)

Postby OlJock99 on Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:10 pm

I voted, but my biggest issues is starting with 11 or 13 regions per rather than 12. That will neutralize the 1v1 1st player advantage.
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta] what changes we should make? (poll)

Postby Danyael on Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:10 pm

i like the idea of bridges starting at 2 neutrals make it so it will be easier to break the courts due to if someone has good dice to start they can hold the court to easily also making the bonus down to +6 might help it not become a clean up be round 5 if 1v1
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta] what changes we should make? (poll)

Postby iancanton on Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:19 am

pikkio wrote:in particular, i thought that if the towers don't start neutral, the +8 bonus of the courts is balanced, cause it's more difficult to hold it (many people to fight in the inner map..)

pikkio wrote:if the towers remain neutrals, conquer and defend the courts are too easy and +8 bonus is too much.

so in my opinion, if we keep the towers neutral we must reduce the courts bonus but if we make the towers starting positions the +8 bonus of the courts is ok.

these are my thoughts exactly.

ian. :)
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta] what changes we should make? (poll)

Postby Mr_Adams on Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:26 pm

4. Four courts and four towers coded as starting positions

as in the only starting positions? like the castles in feudal?
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta] what changes we should make? (poll)

Postby thenobodies80 on Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:40 pm

Mr_Adams wrote:4. Four courts and four towers coded as starting positions

as in the only starting positions? like the castles in feudal?


Actually the map has 8 coded starting positions (courts) and 9 coded starting neutrals (bridges , towers and castle).
All other territories could be splitted among the players.

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Re: Castle Lands [Beta] what changes we should make? (poll)

Postby iancanton on Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:02 am

or 5 coded starting neutrals (bridges and castle) if option 4 is chosen.

ian. :)
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Re: Castle Lands [Beta] what changes we should make? (poll)

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:52 am

iancanton wrote:or 5 coded starting neutrals (bridges and castle) if option 4 is chosen.

ian. :)


yeah, it seems the best choice. ;)
Courts are really strong....i would like to change bridges to +2 and starting positions as explained in option 4.
I don't know if reducing the courts bonus could be necessary after these changes, but seems people like the idea.

Hoping a in more clear poll result in these 3 days :)

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