Japan - 日本 - Quenched

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Japan - 日本 - Quenched

Postby RedBaron0 on Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:33 am

                Image

Japan is a common territory on quite a few maps, including the beloved Classic map, but thus far has failed to gain the necessary support to become a stand alone map. My graphical skill is better than it was when I attempted a Mars map last year, but since there is already a working draft of Mars, (that is quite good by the way) I have decided to work on another map that hasn't found proper representation in CC to this point, JAPAN.

Theme: Japan - Modern day political divisions (known in Japan as prefectures) with ancient Japanese graphical accents, Japanese-like text, and real Kanji text.
Territory count: 43
Bonus regions: 7
Impassible's: Mountains and ocean (limited connections between islands)
Gameplay: Classic style - conquer ALL territories/opponents for victory!

I'm not looking to make this complicated. I'm not planning to put underlying territories, (cities/railways/shipping/sea lanes) bombardment territories, one-way attacks, or complicated bonus structures.

Version 14.0
Large:
Click image to enlarge.
image


Small:
Click image to enlarge.
image


XML file: Japanfinal2.xml

Code: Select all
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<map>
   <continent>
      <name>Hokkaido</name>
      <bonus>3</bonus>
      <components>
   <territory>Rishirito</territory>
   <territory>Kunashiri</territory>
   <territory>Asahikawa</territory>
   <territory>Kushiro</territory>
   <territory>Sapporo</territory>
   <territory>Hakodate</territory>
   </components>
   </continent>
   <continent>
      <name>Tohoku</name>
      <bonus>4</bonus>
      <components>
   <territory>Aomori</territory>
   <territory>Iwate</territory>
   <territory>Akita</territory>
   <territory>Miyagi</territory>
   <territory>Yamagata</territory>
   <territory>Sendai</territory>
   <territory>Fukushima</territory>
   </components>
   </continent>
   <continent>
      <name>Kanto</name>
      <bonus>2</bonus>
      <components>
   <territory>Chiba</territory>
   <territory>Tochigi</territory>
   <territory>Tokyo</territory>
   <territory>Izu-Oshima</territory>
   </components>
   </continent>
   <continent>
      <name>Chubu</name>
      <bonus>5</bonus>
      <components>
   <territory>Sado</territory>
   <territory>Niigata</territory>
   <territory>Ishikawa</territory>
   <territory>Nagano</territory>
   <territory>Aichi</territory>
   <territory>Fuji</territory>
   </components>
   </continent>
   <continent>
      <name>Chugoku</name>
      <bonus>6</bonus>
      <components>
   <territory>Fukui</territory>
   <territory>Kyoto</territory>
   <territory>Mie</territory>
   <territory>Osaka</territory>
   <territory>Tottori</territory>
   <territory>Okayama</territory>
   <territory>Oki-shoto</territory>
   <territory>Matsue</territory>
   <territory>Hiroshima</territory>
   </components>
   </continent>
   <continent>
      <name>Shikoku</name>
      <bonus>2</bonus>
      <components>
   <territory>Naruto</territory>
   <territory>Kochi</territory>
   <territory>Nakamura</territory>
   <territory>Okinawa</territory>
   </components>
   </continent>
   <continent>
      <name>Kyushu</name>
      <bonus>3</bonus>
      <components>
   <territory>Tsushima</territory>
   <territory>Nagasaki</territory>
   <territory>Oita</territory>
   <territory>Aso</territory>
   <territory>Miyazaki</territory>
   <territory>Kagoshima</territory>
   </components>
   </continent>
      <territory>
   <name>Rishirito</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Asahikawa</border>
     <border>Hakodate</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>347</smallx>
     <smally>46</smally>
     <largex>470</largex>
     <largey>50</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Kunashiri</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Kushiro</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>562</smallx>
     <smally>49</smally>
     <largex>754</largex>
     <largey>57</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Asahikawa</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Rishirito</border>
     <border>Sapporo</border>
     <border>Kushiro</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>438</smallx>
     <smally>71</smally>
     <largex>585</largex>
     <largey>91</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Kushiro</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Kunashiri</border>
     <border>Asahikawa</border>
     <border>Sapporo</border>
     <border>Fukushima</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>509</smallx>
     <smally>127</smally>
     <largex>685</largex>
     <largey>162</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Sapporo</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Asahikawa</border>
     <border>Kushiro</border>
     <border>Hakodate</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>450</smallx>
     <smally>148</smally>
     <largex>602</largex>
     <largey>182</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Hakodate</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Rishirito</border>
     <border>Sapporo</border>
     <border>Aomori</border>
     <border>Sea of Japan</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>392</smallx>
     <smally>143</smally>
     <largex>525</largex>
     <largey>186</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Aomori</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Hakodate</border>
     <border>Iwate</border>
     <border>Akita</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>406</smallx>
     <smally>256</smally>
     <largex>560</largex>
     <largey>327</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Iwate</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Aomori</border>
     <border>Akita</border>
     <border>Miyagi</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>429</smallx>
     <smally>273</smally>
     <largex>573</largex>
     <largey>367</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Akita</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Aomori</border>
     <border>Iwate</border>
     <border>Miyagi</border>
     <border>Yamagata</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>391</smallx>
     <smally>277</smally>
     <largex>520</largex>
     <largey>361</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Miyagi</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Iwate</border>
     <border>Akita</border>
     <border>Yamagata</border>
     <border>Sendai</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>423</smallx>
     <smally>302</smally>
     <largex>562</largex>
     <largey>410</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Yamagata</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Akita</border>
     <border>Miyagi</border>
     <border>Sendai</border>
     <border>Niigata</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>385</smallx>
     <smally>334</smally>
     <largex>514</largex>
     <largey>431</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Sendai</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Miyagi</border>
     <border>Yamagata</border>
     <border>Fukushima</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>415</smallx>
     <smally>335</smally>
     <largex>551</largex>
     <largey>447</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Fukushima</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Kushiro</border>
     <border>Sendai</border>
     <border>Chiba</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>406</smallx>
     <smally>376</smally>
     <largex>540</largex>
     <largey>494</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Chiba</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Fukushima</border>
     <border>Tochigi</border>
     <border>Tokyo</border>
     <border>Izu-Oshima</border>
     <border>Osaka</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>406</smallx>
     <smally>469</smally>
     <largex>543</largex>
     <largey>576</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Tochigi</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Chiba</border>
     <border>Tokyo</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>380</smallx>
     <smally>429</smally>
     <largex>501</largex>
     <largey>557</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Tokyo</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Tochigi</border>
     <border>Chiba</border>
     <border>Fuji</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>367</smallx>
     <smally>456</smally>
     <largex>490</largex>
     <largey>600</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Izu-Oshima</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Chiba</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>392</smallx>
     <smally>507</smally>
     <largex>521</largex>
     <largey>668</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Sado</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Niigata</border>
          <border>Ishikawa</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>320</smallx>
     <smally>341</smally>
     <largex>423</largex>
     <largey>458</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Niigata</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Yamagata</border>
     <border>Sado</border>
     <border>Ishikawa</border>
          <border>Nagano</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>327</smallx>
     <smally>392</smally>
     <largex>465</largex>
     <largey>498</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Ishikawa</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Sado</border>
     <border>Niigata</border>
     <border>Nagano</border>
          <border>Aichi</border>
     <border>Fukui</border>
          <border>Kyoto</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>263</smallx>
     <smally>425</smally>
     <largex>344</largex>
     <largey>554</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Nagano</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Niigata</border>
     <border>Ishikawa</border>
          <border>Aichi</border>
     <border>Fuji</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>314</smallx>
     <smally>418</smally>
     <largex>430</largex>
     <largey>572</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Aichi</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Ishikawa</border>
     <border>Nagano</border>
     <border>Fuji</border>
          <border>Kyoto</border>
     <border>Mie</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>293</smallx>
     <smally>452</smally>
     <largex>389</largex>
     <largey>616</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Fuji</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Nagano</border>
          <border>Tokyo</border>
     <border>Aichi</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>326</smallx>
     <smally>471</smally>
     <largex>433</largex>
     <largey>623</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Fukui</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Sea of Japan</border>
     <border>Ishikawa</border>
     <border>Kyoto</border>
          <border>Mie</border>
     <border>Tottori</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>225</smallx>
     <smally>433</smally>
     <largex>298</largex>
     <largey>589</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Kyoto</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Ishikawa</border>
          <border>Aichi</border>
     <border>Fukui</border>
     <border>Mie</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>256</smallx>
     <smally>445</smally>
     <largex>340</largex>
     <largey>604</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Mie</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Fukui</border>
     <border>Kyoto</border>
          <border>Aichi</border>
          <border>Okayama</border>
     <border>Osaka</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>254</smallx>
     <smally>495</smally>
     <largex>341</largex>
     <largey>645</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Osaka</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Mie</border>
          <border>Naruto</border>
     <border>Chiba</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>236</smallx>
     <smally>528</smally>
     <largex>310</largex>
     <largey>687</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Tottori</name>
   <borders>
          <border>Fukui</border>
     <border>Matsue</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>152</smallx>
     <smally>454</smally>
     <largex>211</largex>
     <largey>598</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Okayama</name>
   <borders>
          <border>Mie</border>
     <border>Hiroshima</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>165</smallx>
     <smally>488</smally>
     <largex>220</largex>
     <largey>643</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Oki-shoto</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Matsue</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>147</smallx>
     <smally>398</smally>
     <largex>195</largex>
     <largey>522</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Matsue</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Oki-shoto</border>
     <border>Tottori</border>
     <border>Hiroshima</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>122</smallx>
     <smally>461</smally>
     <largex>167</largex>
     <largey>608</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Hiroshima</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Matsue</border>
          <border>Okayama</border>
     <border>Nagasaki</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>134</smallx>
     <smally>493</smally>
     <largex>176</largex>
     <largey>649</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Naruto</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Osaka</border>
          <border>Kochi</border>
     <border>Okinawa</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>182</smallx>
     <smally>520</smally>
     <largex>237</largex>
     <largey>681</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Kochi</name>
   <borders>
          <border>Naruto</border>
     <border>Nakamura</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>146</smallx>
     <smally>523</smally>
     <largex>188</largex>
     <largey>690</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Nakamura</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Kochi</border>
          <border>Okinawa</border>
     <border>Oita</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>127</smallx>
     <smally>552</smally>
     <largex>166</largex>
     <largey>745</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Okinawa</name>
   <borders>
          <border>Naruto</border>
     <border>Nakamura</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>175</smallx>
     <smally>601</smally>
     <largex>229</largex>
     <largey>790</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Tsushima</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Nagasaki</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>37</smallx>
     <smally>462</smally>
     <largex>49</largex>
     <largey>611</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Nagasaki</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Sea of Japan</border>
     <border>Hiroshima</border>
     <border>Tsushima</border>
     <border>Oita</border>
          <border>Aso</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>53</smallx>
     <smally>512</smally>
     <largex>73</largex>
     <largey>677</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Oita</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Nagasaki</border>
     <border>Nakamura</border>
     <border>Aso</border>
          <border>Miyazaki</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>85</smallx>
     <smally>552</smally>
     <largex>114</largex>
     <largey>723</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Aso</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Nagasaki</border>
     <border>Oita</border>
     <border>Miyazaki</border>
          <border>Kagoshima</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>55</smallx>
     <smally>545</smally>
     <largex>77</largex>
     <largey>718</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Miyazaki</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Oita</border>
     <border>Aso</border>
     <border>Kagoshima</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>74</smallx>
     <smally>577</smally>
     <largex>99</largex>
     <largey>761</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Kagoshima</name>
   <borders>
          <border>Aso</border>
     <border>Miyazaki</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>38</smallx>
     <smally>585</smally>
     <largex>51</largex>
     <largey>767</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
      <territory>
   <name>Sea of Japan</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Hakodate</border>
     <border>Fukui</border>
     <border>Nagasaki</border>
     </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>242</smallx>
     <smally>310</smally>
     <largex>346</largex>
     <largey>407</largey>
   </coordinates>
      </territory>
</map>


show: Older Versions


Possible Issues:
-Gameplay: Completed.

-Graphics: Completed.

-XML:
    Coordinate positions
    Color in numbers blending with image
    Overlap of "important" parts of the image

Overall Plan:
  1. Discussions on all issues.
  2. Continued updates trying out suggestions from the community.
  3. Large image creation upon resolution of the majority of issues.
  4. Draft Stamp issued 7-29-09
  5. Resolve any and all gameplay issues.
  6. Gameplay Stamp issued 8-24-09
  7. Complete graphical design.
  8. Graphics Stamp issued 1-25-10
  9. XML coding and tests.
  10. XML stamp issued 2-11-10
  11. Play games, destroy enemies, conquer Japan. (Beta-testing)

show: Kanji Translations


show: Copyright agreement
Last edited by RedBaron0 on Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:10 am, edited 81 times in total.
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Re: Japan - A new attempt!

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:49 am

Nice start! I think keeping it simple is probably the best thing to do for this map, as my own faield attempt has shown.

If the Kuril Islands are part of Russia, why are they in this map?

The key is tough to read, I think your letters are pixelated too. Maybe lower the opacity on the screen?

There's some confusion on the names... I think you should work on making it clearer which terr. the names belong to.

Anyway, Those are my first impressions. Best of luck!
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Re: Japan - A new attempt!

Postby JoshyBoy on Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:05 am

This looks promising.

My advice to you would be dont give up, and keep it simple.
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Re: Japan - A new attempt!

Postby MrBenn on Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:45 am

I think that Japan is one of the more obvious places that is absent from CC, but the biggest difficulty with previous attempts at maps of Japan is that the natural shape and territory divisions don't transfer well onto a CC gamespace.

I wouldn't worry too much about the graphics at this stage - the key task is to ensure that it can be made into a viable map... You're challenge, should you choose to accept it, is to create a "working draft" that makes good use of the available canvas space to ensure clear legibility, and obvious connections (between neighbouring terrs and the relevant army placements).
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Re: Japan - A new attempt!

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:05 pm

MrBenn makes some good points. Work on the mechanics and gameplay of the map perhaps at this early stage, due to the difficulties people have had in the past with a Japan Map---as mentioned, due to its natural shape and form.

Best of luck, I really hope a Japan map succeeds. :)


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Re: Japan - A new attempt!

Postby RedBaron0 on Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:23 pm

Thanks guys for your imput guys!

Industrial Helix wrote:If the Kuril Islands are part of Russia, why are they in this map?


I wanted to make sure my starting map has the magic 42 territory count, it may end up on the cutting room floor. (very soon most likely) The Kuril Islands have been administered by Russia since WWII and are claimed by Japan. Territorial disputes continue to this day.

Industrial Helix wrote:The key is tough to read, I think your letters are pixelated too. Maybe lower the opacity on the screen?


I will try that!

Industrial Helix wrote:There's some confusion on the names... I think you should work on making it clearer which terr. the names belong to.


That's probably my biggest concern at the moment. I'm going to have to fiddle with the map and see if I can't get the territories to be bigger and get the majority of the name into the territory itself. I'll have to rotate the text around in a lot of cases.

MrBenn wrote:I think that Japan is one of the more obvious places that is absent from CC, but the biggest difficulty with previous attempts at maps of Japan is that the natural shape and territory divisions don't transfer well onto a CC gamespace.

I wouldn't worry too much about the graphics at this stage - the key task is to ensure that it can be made into a viable map... You're challenge, should you choose to accept it, is to create a "working draft" that makes good use of the available canvas space to ensure clear legibility, and obvious connections (between neighbouring terrs and the relevant army placements).


Good advice... I'll let the aesthetics take a back seat until I can get the territory space and names sorted out. The shape of the islands and natural geography, I think does lend itself to being an excellent map for CC, and I plan on finding a way to get it right. A fellow clan member, dtellis, commented (G1 got a preview :P ;) ) that the map reminded him of Malta. The potential has always been there it just has been missing something in previous attempts. I've looked at Helix and InkLOsed's recent attempts and say wow, if those maps are missing something.... I've got my work cut out for me.

Again, thanks guys, I'm sure I'll be awake late tonight playing around with the image! Wait, did that sound right? :-s :-k :roll: ;)
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Re: Japan - A new attempt!

Postby captainwalrus on Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:51 pm

It you make the Hokkiado island an inset in one of the corners, you can make the rest larger, since right now it is a little cramped. That was done in most of the other japan maps, and it worked well.
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Re: Japan - A new attempt!

Postby oaktown on Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:10 pm

MrBenn wrote:I wouldn't worry too much about the graphics at this stage - the key task is to ensure that it can be made into a viable map... You're challenge, should you choose to accept it, is to create a "working draft" that makes good use of the available canvas space to ensure clear legibility, and obvious connections (between neighbouring terrs and the relevant army placements).

What he said. ;)

A fair start you have here. When you start making links across the map, ask yourself if they make sense from a geographical point of view. I don't much care for the attack route connecting the north and south - it makes me wonder why those two territories can't attack everything in between?

I'm also not a fan of inset-mapping parts of the land, as was suggested. It gets confusing. Instead, when I made a Japan draft I took some liberties with the geography and stretched the land a bit here and there. I don't think anybody noticed, and it gave me the pixels I needed to fit territories... you tell me if it still doesn't look like Japan...

Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Japan - A new attempt!

Postby RjBeals on Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:11 pm

I think you're going to have to think a little abstract to make japan work. I would suggest a couple call-out boxes, maybe with Tokyo enlarged or something.. It's a tough map, and has failed many times. I hope you can stick with it. Here's a sample of japan that's sort of fattened, and not really a straight satellite image map. I think you'll have to play around with something like this.

Click image to enlarge.
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(edit) fastposted by oak. He doesn't like the insets I see... :)
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Re: Japan - A new attempt!

Postby RedBaron0 on Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:06 am

captainwalrus wrote:It you make the Hokkiado island an inset in one of the corners, you can make the rest larger, since right now it is a little cramped. That was done in most of the other japan maps, and it worked well.


I am definitely against insetting a portion of the map. If I have to I will, but I have some options before I get there. I'm planing on trying to make the territories bigger. I've got options, about 50 pixels on the small map in either direction, and I get at least eliminate a few things, for now, to get the map into a workable state and re-add them further down the line.

oaktown wrote:A fair start you have here. When you start making links across the map, ask yourself if they make sense from a geographical point of view. I don't much care for the attack route connecting the north and south - it makes me wonder why those two territories can't attack everything in between?

I'm also not a fan of inset-mapping parts of the land, as was suggested. It gets confusing. Instead, when I made a Japan draft I took some liberties with the geography and stretched the land a bit here and there. I don't think anybody noticed, and it gave me the pixels I needed to fit territories... you tell me if it still doesn't look like Japan...


You make a valid point, oaktown. I was looking connect north and south to allow for balanced gameplay. It has already been suggested that I focus on the "mapmaking" itself before working on these kind of aspects. My thoughts was that if one player clears one end or the other it becomes very easy to defend and then win the game. Since the map is a confined area of the world there isn't a wrap around affect.

I am willing to try stretching a the geography some, your draft is very good oaktown, it looks like Japan, but one of my first observations would be is the islands look, inflated.

RjBeals wrote:I think you're going to have to think a little abstract to make japan work. I would suggest a couple call-out boxes, maybe with Tokyo enlarged or something.. It's a tough map, and has failed many times. I hope you can stick with it. Here's a sample of japan that's sort of fattened, and not really a straight satellite image map. I think you'll have to play around with something like this.

(edit) fastposted by oak. He doesn't like the insets I see... :)


Yeah, the inset box is something I want to avoid using. If I can find a way to use it in a not confusing manner, I'll jump on it. And like I've said before, I'm looking to keep this map as simple as possible!

I'll be working on it some tonight and again in subsequent nights. I've got a lot to think about and work on. I've got a lot of good suggestions, and will have to work out exactly how I want implement them. Thanks guys!
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Re: Japan - A new attempt!

Postby barterer2002 on Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:29 am

A couple of game play thoughts as I look at it.

1). There are a lot of terts that only can be attacked from one other tert ((Okinawa, Taushima Is, Oki Is, Izu-Oshima Is, Sado Is, Kuril Is) That's 6 out of your 42 terts. 14% of the terts means that while you've got the "magic" 42 its not really going to play like that. If you look at the classic versions there aren't any terts that can only attack one other tert. To my mind you seem to be forcing it to 42 for a reason that doesn't apply with the map you've got here.

2) In terms of starting position it seems clear that the winning strategy on Japan is going to be to start either North or South and move in. The way the map works linerally you just move from the N/S edge and move your protection along with you. In most maps, as you expand out from your base you need to diffuse your defense over more terts or leave it behind for protection you can't move the entire force in one direction without consequences

3). I can't figure out why Sapporo can't attack Hakodate which doesn't seem to make sense however you've got the mountains blocking the way.


IMO the best maps have a variety of strategy and can be won from starting places all over the map. They tend to be somewhat free wheeling without lots of choke points. At this point you've got choke points all over the map-partly because of the nature of the islands. I'd love to see this work as Japan is clearly missing from CC but I'm not convinced this is it yet.
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Re: Japan - A new attempt!

Postby RedBaron0 on Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:24 am

barterer2002 wrote:A couple of game play thoughts as I look at it.

1). There are a lot of terts that only can be attacked from one other tert ((Okinawa, Taushima Is, Oki Is, Izu-Oshima Is, Sado Is, Kuril Is) That's 6 out of your 42 terts. 14% of the terts means that while you've got the "magic" 42 its not really going to play like that. If you look at the classic versions there aren't any terts that can only attack one other tert. To my mind you seem to be forcing it to 42 for a reason that doesn't apply with the map you've got here.

2) In terms of starting position it seems clear that the winning strategy on Japan is going to be to start either North or South and move in. The way the map works linerally you just move from the N/S edge and move your protection along with you. In most maps, as you expand out from your base you need to diffuse your defense over more terts or leave it behind for protection you can't move the entire force in one direction without consequences

3). I can't figure out why Sapporo can't attack Hakodate which doesn't seem to make sense however you've got the mountains blocking the way.


IMO the best maps have a variety of strategy and can be won from starting places all over the map. They tend to be somewhat free wheeling without lots of choke points. At this point you've got choke points all over the map-partly because of the nature of the islands. I'd love to see this work as Japan is clearly missing from CC but I'm not convinced this is it yet.


1: Ok, as I think about the gameplay, which will be a stonger focus at a later stage, I am starting to thing there will need to be more territory connections across the water. Japan is a seafaring nation afterall, I will have to find a balance between too few connections and a spiderweb... Even though I am against adding complicated territory/bonus structures to the map, I believe the addition, at some point of sea route territories. Call them ferry's or something of the like. If done properly it will allow me to decrease land based territories; merging them together for increased size and overall map clarity.

2: I've mentioned this before, and I agree. Gameplay if the map were to go into use right now would be lopsided towards a player than would capture the North or South, each end of the map is too easily defended in its current state. This is the first draft though, there will be many changes and improvements to the map.

3: I've started out with a map that very closely resembles the true geography of Japan. There is a mountainous region separating Sapporo and Hakodate.

Click image to enlarge.
image


Of course you can see from this image I did not include every mountainous area. Japan is filled with mountainous terrain and volcanoes. Again this is a first draft, there are a lot of changes that will need to be made with input from the community.
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Re: Japan - A new attempt!

Postby barterer2002 on Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:42 am

I suppose you could go with a WWII Japan but I tend to feel there are enough WWII maps out there at the moment.
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Re: Japan - A new attempt!

Postby whitestazn88 on Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:49 pm

all i will say for now is good luck.

so many have tried, and so many have failed on the quest you are about to go on.
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Re: Japan - A new attempt!

Postby Timminz on Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:13 pm

Could you maybe fudge the shape a little, by stretching it NorthWest to SouthEast? It would give a little more girth to the country, and make more space for the territories.
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Re: Japan - A new attempt!

Postby MrBenn on Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:31 am

RedBaron0 wrote:I am willing to try stretching a the geography some, your draft is very good oaktown, it looks like Japan, but one of my first observations would be is the islands look, inflated.


To somebody who knows the geography of a particular country well, they will usually notice any distortion. However, in many cases, some distortion is absolutely essential to making a map work here on CC. The trick is to distort it enough to make it work, but not too much as to make it completely unrecognisable. I could name any number of maps with distorted areas/borders - on Europa, I set out to achieve a completely geographically accurate map of Europe, but still had to fudge things to make it work!

Timminz wrote:Could you maybe fudge the shape a little, by stretching it NorthWest to SouthEast? It would give a little more girth to the country, and make more space for the territories.

A little bit of rotation might help to get a better fit on the canvas, and inflating/fattening the islands a bit would help give some more space - you could experiment with different satellite angles, or different projections. The key thing is to give yourself as much room as possible on the land to fit things in.
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Re: Japan - A new attempt!

Postby RedBaron0 on Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:30 am

No WWII map, that's for sure, that niche is filled to the brim.

I'm fiddling with angles and stretching the borders. I should have something posted in the next day or so to show you my progress. That map most likely will be missing some of the frills of the first draft, and most likely the mountain impassibles. I'm unhappy with the look of the little green mountains, and I know I'll have to make them look better before the end anyways. After the update and input from you all I'll look into Google Earth and see if different vantage points from overhead might be better for the map.
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Japan ----- Again!

Postby Mr Pink on Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:33 pm

Hi,

I know it's been tried several times before, but can't someone please revive plans to produce a Japan map.
I have a few ideas of my own, but I have never been involved with designing a map and wouldn't know where to start.
Any takers?

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Re: Japan ----- Again!

Postby RedBaron0 on Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:48 am

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Re: Japan - A new attempt!

Postby barterer2002 on Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:55 am

I wonder if perhaps the way to handle Japan is not to be a straight geographic styled map but rather a map of their class system with everything from the Emperor to Gishas to Ninjas to Ronin and even Shishi
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Re: Japan - A new attempt!

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:17 pm

barterer2002 wrote:I wonder if perhaps the way to handle Japan is not to be a straight geographic styled map but rather a map of their class system with everything from the Emperor to Gishas to Ninjas to Ronin and even Shishi

Interesting idea...I kind of like it.


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Re: Japan - A new attempt!

Postby mattosaurus on Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:40 pm

I agree on using the class system idea. Japan as a country is just too linear, and a straight geographical map is boring. One with the class systems would be unique and appeal to a greater variety of people.
Check out my map in the making: Testosterone VS Estrogen
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=241&t=85196
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Re: Japan ----- Again!

Postby Mr Pink on Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:55 am

Great! Good Luck.

I recommend you consider including ports (eg: Hakodate, Sendai, Yokohama, Kobe, Kyushu, Okinawa, Shikoku). ;)

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Re: Japan - 1st revision pg2

Postby RedBaron0 on Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:35 am

Small only - 601x600
Click image to enlarge.
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I'll consider the class system in conjunction with the map if there is enough support. The class system includes 4 tiers, Samurai, Farmers, Artisans, and Merchants. It might be possible to assign some territories as one of these classes. Discuss it, but for now I'll continue to work on the basic map. I am unsure about the idea personally, I don't want to over complicate this.

The revision does not have the mountains on them, I need to work them out a bit more. Seeing the map in just it basic political divisions help me to see where I can erase border lines then add the mountains back in and only move territory names and the circles if necessary. Also discuss where it might be best to add the mountains back in. I'm figuring I'll put less mountains back in, some in the area of Nagano and up and down the central axis of Tokoku, and maybe a few spots here and there. Further updates I'd like to connect via the sea more territories. Perhaps the small island territories on the east coast(Tsushima-Oki-Sado-Rishirito) connected to each other and a few connections along the west coast via natural points sticking out. (Sapporo-Iwate-Izu-Wakayama-Miyazaki?)
Last edited by RedBaron0 on Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Japan - 1st revision pg2

Postby barterer2002 on Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:04 am

well if you were going to incorporate class into a straight map like you're doing I think the advantage would be to take terts and make them able to attack other similar terts (or lower terts). Most of your terts would be farmers but you could add in the merchant class in each bonus region and have them able to attack each other allowing for movement throughout. Samarai could attack other parts of the map (in one way attacks-not on other Samarai terts though I think) while the Shogun and Empereror regions could autodeploy an extra 2.
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