Chicago [Quenched]

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Chicago [Quenched]

Postby Scott-Land on Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:19 am

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V14
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Map: Chicago
Game play: Standard-ish.
Terr: 56 Territories w/ 9 Bonus Zones [ 2,2,3,3,4,6,6,7,8 ] + 3 Rail Line Bonuses. [ 2,5,6 ]
Last edited by Scott-Land on Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:42 pm, edited 57 times in total.
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Re: Chicago--

Postby laddida on Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:23 am

this map is close to home for me :) and hope we can play on it in the future looks good so far scott =D> Cant wait for all the tweaking to begin
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Re: Chicago--

Postby Bruceswar on Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:26 am

Nice start. Why Joliet way down south? Would it better just left off?
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Re: Chicago--

Postby Scott-Land on Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:34 am

Bruceswar wrote:Nice start. Why Joliet way down south? Would it better just left off?


I was gonna make it part of the map..... still unsure so I left it there.
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Re: Chicago--

Postby john9blue on Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:43 am

It's been bugging me that we don't have a map of Chicago (except for Prohibition, which is... historical). It's like a big gaping hole in our list of important locations mapped. Hope this gets done. :D
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Re: Chicago--

Postby oaktown on Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:03 am

Wow Scotland, it is nice to see somebody put some work into a map before posting a first version. :) I'm too tired to look closely at it now, but wanted to say something nice.

First little criticisms I have are the pixely lines and the bushes... the stylized background deserves better than to be on the same image as those bushes!

Gameplay wise the two territory bonuses will require some thinking through - easy to drop such a small region on a big map. About 10% chance of landing one in a 2/3 player game.

Yo, where's the L? :-s
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Re: Chicago--

Postby john9blue on Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:12 am

Yeah I should mention that too, this map is just about Foundry-worthy already imo, which is unheard of for the first draft from a new mapmaker. Very well done and many kudos to you, sir. ;)
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Re: Chicago--

Postby Scott-Land on Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:29 am

oaktown wrote:Wow Scotland, it is nice to see somebody put some work into a map before posting a first version. :) I'm too tired to look closely at it now, but wanted to say something nice.

First little criticisms I have are the pixely lines and the bushes... the stylized background deserves better than to be on the same image as those bushes!

Gameplay wise the two territory bonuses will require some thinking through - easy to drop such a small region on a big map. About 10% chance of landing one in a 2/3 player game.

Yo, where's the L? :-s


Thanks Oak -- still have tons to learn yet.

btw-- those are trees from a birdseye view ... lmao .

I originally had the cta in the map but then went against it (and I know the L is such a big part of Chicago ) . because it wouldnt be a standard game play map-- wanted to stick to the gamplan.

john9blue wrote:Yeah I should mention that too, this map is just about Foundry-worthy already imo, which is unheard of for the first draft from a new mapmaker. Very well done and many kudos to you, sir. ;)


Cheers for the kind words John-- hopefully we can get it through with a lot of help. :D
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Re: Chicago--

Postby Incandenza on Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:53 am

Well, I have to concur with the prevailing sentiment that this is a really excellent first draft.

But, of course, I have comments:
Part of the problem with the trees is that some of them kinda look like green fireworks (north of West Town, east of Englewood, a couple of other place)... but that's just a graphics thing
Four-corner borders are generally considered a Bad Thing, so consider having a tree there ti break up the four corners, or using the river as an impassable... (in fact, the rivers-as-impassables thing seems a bit visually arbitrary atm)
Thematically, I'm not sure about the gas-food-lodging thing. Right off the bat, it doesn't seem to fit your theme. Chicago's, well, Chicago, whereas I associate "gas-food-lodging" signs with the crappy little Central Valley towns that cluster along the freeways connecting major Western metropolitan areas. Plus, if you're going for more standard gameplay, then I'm not convinced you need the mini-bonuses at all.

It's nice to see ya in the foundry, Scott. :D
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Re: Chicago--

Postby Scott-Land on Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:53 pm

Actually those signs are all over the interstate in and around Chicago-- Incand. But I suppose you are right that it would alter the standard game play to have those on the map.
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Re: Chicago--

Postby TaCktiX on Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:31 pm

I am agog, I am aghast. Is this is a good first draft at last?* Not going to comment on the map in full quite yet, but this is is a really good start.

* Shamelessly ripped off from Les Miserables
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Re: Chicago--

Postby Hatchman on Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:17 am

Nice concept. And looks great so far.
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Re: Chicago--

Postby barterer2002 on Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:40 am

Nice draft Scott

Here are my preliminary comments

1). Take Joliet off, its not necessary and detracts frankly.
2). Take off the interstate food/lodging signs and put in some landmarks as background things like the Sears Tower, Wrigley Field, etc. You can even use the L in the background without making it a game play part
3). The purple for Beverly/Morgan Park is too close to the South side bonus. You can probably switch the color of one or the other with Lakeview/DePaul/Lincoln Park without difficulty
4). The key for what is impassable in the legend is unclear in my eyes.


Looking forward to seeing this progress
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Re: Chicago--

Postby RjBeals on Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:49 pm

don't quit. you've got a unique and pleasant map here.
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Re: Chicago--

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:05 pm

Wow! Very nice first draft.

One thing that stands out to me is that It has Welcome to chicago and then it has the map title right beneath, seems a bit repetitive to me.

What's going on with the water in the lower lavender area? I presume docks of some sort...

Are you going to add buildings as impassables as well? Judging by the key it seems so.

The hole between norwood and dunning... what is that? Inconsequential, but just curious.

I think the rivers should run into the lake without the white border. Same for around portage and irving parks. In fact, I think the rivers shouldn't have any white border at all. They seem to stand out enough on their own.

Otherwise it looks great. I really hope you see this through!
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Re: Chicago--

Postby azezzo on Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:43 pm

AWESOME JOB!
from chicago and think you have done a very good job. I would play it today if i could.
joliet doesnt bother me, but i do think that the food sign in englewood is quite funny, since 99% of chicagoans would not go there for food, ......................................drugs perhaps,but not food.

you could add Midway airport and make it a bonus for holding both airports,
comiskey park, wrigley field, and soldiers field could also be added, but I think its fine as is.
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Re: Chicago--

Postby mibi on Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:58 pm

yeah scott this is a tight map already. You definitely have some design skills. You have some readability issues with the light text on light background, and I would like to see the lake texture or color switchuped up to something better as well.
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Re: Chicago--

Postby Scott-Land on Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:04 pm

Click image to enlarge.
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I think I covered all the posts---

Edited.....

- Changed standard play somewhat by adding L train.
- Fireworks/Bushes :lol: / Trees.
- Territories / Bonuses ( Removed Sign bonus ) and colors
- Removed border on Lake Calumet..... kept it for the river borders. Don't like the look w/out. Remove Chicago River entirely.
- Changed L Mich

Uncompleted...
- Minimap
- 2 Bridges
- Airports ?

I like your airport idea Azzezo but the map is pretty busy as is and to add the ballparks-- I don't have the room. And Chicago has way too many...... United Center, Soldier Field, Wrigley, US Cellular Field, and the Blackhawks ( not sure where they play... not a hockey fan).
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Re: Chicago-- Updated V2 [Pg 2]

Postby barterer2002 on Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:27 pm

The orange line appears incomplete. Midway to Chinatown but it hides behind the trees for have the route, not sure how I feel about it but what is the line heading north out of Chinatown that doesn't go anywhere?

Shouldn't there be a slight white line between O'Hare and Norwood Park.

The grey of Logan Sq/West Loop/Wicker Park/Near Westside and the light brown of Belmont Heights/Garfield Park/Lawndale/Austin/Little Village are a little too close in color still I think. (maybe switching the grey with the rose color from the south)

I think that your bonuses are a little high here, most of the bonus regions have some sort of bottlenecks. The Purple region down by Gary In for instance (sorry I don't know the regions as well) can be held with 3 terts and has 8 terts. +7 seems too high for that IMO. I'm not as sure why its different than the gret tert in the Northeast (7 terts with 3 to hold). I was going to make a similar comment on O'Hare before realizing that the rail lines are in play (should have read your comments first).
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Re: Chicago-- Updated V2 [Pg 2]

Postby whitestazn88 on Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:35 pm

hey there, this looks really good already, although i do have some things to say.

-some of the rivers look a little pixely, so you could work on that.
-i didn't really take a look at the bonuses, but they seem even enough. i'll take a look again later and add another comment.
-the main concern i have, although it shouldn't really be that big of a concern is the number of territories. they are actually pretty good, but just wanted to interject as a heavy 1v1 player that starting w/ 18 is tough b/c you drop down to 5 men by taking 1 territory. this doesn't have to be changed, because everything else works out really well, but it was just a thought.
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Re: Chicago-- Updated V2 [Pg 2]

Postby Scott-Land on Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:39 pm

barterer2002 wrote:The orange line appears incomplete. Midway to Chinatown but it hides behind the trees for have the route, not sure how I feel about it but what is the line heading north out of Chinatown that doesn't go anywhere?

Shouldn't there be a slight white line between O'Hare and Norwood Park.

The grey of Logan Sq/West Loop/Wicker Park/Near Westside and the light brown of Belmont Heights/Garfield Park/Lawndale/Austin/Little Village are a little too close in color still I think. (maybe switching the grey with the rose color from the south)

I think that your bonuses are a little high here, most of the bonus regions have some sort of bottlenecks. The Purple region down by Gary In for instance (sorry I don't know the regions as well) can be held with 3 terts and has 8 terts. +7 seems too high for that IMO. I'm not as sure why its different than the gret tert in the Northeast (7 terts with 3 to hold). I was going to make a similar comment on O'Hare before realizing that the rail lines are in play (should have read your comments first).


Hmm I think it's clearly different color for the bonuses....

All the lines of the L ( 8 in total ) run through downtown to a station -- the Loop. It's a big rectangle.... but yeah the Orange Line bothers me as well.

As far as the bonuses go, I had to add 2/3 more terrs to the total because of the rails. It's 8 and 9 terr per bonuss. The thing is, I could put it to 10 or 11 and players wouldn't or shouldn't go after them. They're not meant to be held. Strategically it's the 2 and 3 bonuses that should be fought over and now with the insertion of the rails-- they are prime as well.

whitestazn88 wrote:hey there, this looks really good already, although i do have some things to say.

-some of the rivers look a little pixely, so you could work on that.
-i didn't really take a look at the bonuses, but they seem even enough. i'll take a look again later and add another comment.
-the main concern i have, although it shouldn't really be that big of a concern is the number of territories. they are actually pretty good, but just wanted to interject as a heavy 1v1 player that starting w/ 18 is tough b/c you drop down to 5 men by taking 1 territory. this doesn't have to be changed, because everything else works out really well, but it was just a thought.


The new version only has 1 river -- Calumet at the bottom.

I've taken in acccount 1 vs 1s and 4 man / dubs.... it's hard to satisfy all game types without drastically reducing the terr count. I'm open for suggestions... as to where it should be.
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Re: Chicago-- Updated V2 [Pg 2]

Postby Tisha on Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:48 pm

Have you thought about adding a main station right there with all the colors on it?
I loved the other trees so much more.. they could have used a little messing around with, so I couldn't tell they had bee repeated in pattern... but that was it.
I like the raised metro lines a lot too.
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Re: Chicago-- Updated V2 [Pg 2]

Postby Scott-Land on Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:51 pm

I liked the other trees as well but guess they had to go.

I don't have the room to make the station without covering up the existing borders or expanding the entire seaboard further east.
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Re: Chicago-- Updated V2 [Pg 2]

Postby whitestazn88 on Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:58 pm

yeah, the river on the bottom was the one i was referring to, its very pixely, but i'm sure that can be fixed relatively easily. as for the territs, you can keep it like it is, and there shouldn't be a problem, and you're right that its hard to make it balanced for every game type. now that i've looked at the bonuses some more, they seem to be a little skewed, for example, the bottom most region is worth +7, although there are only 8 territories and 3 borders, the +2 region next to it has 4 territories and 3 borders... i'd probably change them to +6 and +3 respectively, but then again, the whole bonus thing isn't my forte, so its ultimately up to you,
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Re: Chicago-- Updated V2 [Pg 2]

Postby Scott-Land on Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:13 pm

whitestazn88 wrote:yeah, the river on the bottom was the one i was referring to, its very pixely, but i'm sure that can be fixed relatively easily. as for the territs, you can keep it like it is, and there shouldn't be a problem, and you're right that its hard to make it balanced for every game type. now that i've looked at the bonuses some more, they seem to be a little skewed, for example, the bottom most region is worth +7, although there are only 8 territories and 3 borders, the +2 region next to it has 4 territories and 3 borders... i'd probably change them to +6 and +3 respectively, but then again, the whole bonus thing isn't my forte, so its ultimately up to you,


The bottom Purple bonus I think you're referring to. It has 4 total borders ( counting rail ) but 5 joining terrs , and 9 total terrs. I have no problem adjusting down on the bonuses because I don't think it's going to affect the strategy all that much. The rail will be a stacking terr which will make that bonus all the harder to go after/keep.

Pink bonus I had at 3 terrs but Oaktown was afraid that someone would drop the entire bonus so I added 1 terr and kept the bonus the same. It could possibly goto 3 but I wanted somewhat of a deterrent. Although most players will go after it, they may stray at 2 but at 3 it would be automatic like SA with 2 borders.
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