Option for players to set, stake or bet points [REJECTED]

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Option for players to set, stake or bet points [REJECTED]

Postby Bull Dog on Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:22 pm

Mod Edit: The suggestion to allow players to set, stake or bet the amount of points that each player could lose to the winner has been suggested several times. It has also been REJECTED several times. Recently, MichelSableheart explained it well:

MichelSableheart wrote:The problem with this suggestion is that it doesn't respect the philosophy behind the current score system. Currently, scores are still somewhat indicative of ability, in the sense that if two players only play a certain type of game against each other, their points will reach a natural balance which reflects their ability. The same is true on a larger scale. The fact that most players vary the type of games they play makes the scoreboard less reliable, and abuse does take place, but the principle is still there. The fact that a players score won't grow higher at a certain point is part of that.

By giving players the option to play for a set amount of points, this natural balancing factor will disappear. You give up whatever indication of strength is there to change the system into a flat out race. Definately not a fan.


This thread contains many of these suggestions. If you want to suggest some variation of betting points, please catch up on the ideas history in this thread and the related threads that are mentioned below. If you see a thread that should be merged here, please inform a moderator. Thank you. --agentcom

Along the same lines, some users have suggested options to wager points in other ways. For example:

An option to make a game worth double the amount of points it would be worth otherwise - http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... &p=2721168
An option for a tournament "pot" - http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... &p=2983671
An option to gamble points on casino games - viewtopic.php?f=471&t=32961

This topic is also related to, but distinct from, the idea of having games worth no points, which has been rejected. In fact, if you were allowed to "stake" zero points, this suggestion would actually allow for these "unrated" games. That discussion is here: viewtopic.php?f=471&t=720


It would be a great idea if we could set the stakes (points) of the game. This way there would be more at risk if you lose or win.
Last edited by agentcom on Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: changed title and added introduction
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Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:25 pm

Unfortunately you may be looking through CC with rose eyes. I could see a lot of abuse, multi's setting up games for easy points, when they can wager whatever they want.

Even if we limited it to say '60' point max, still abuse would be horrendous.


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Postby dugcarr1 on Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:30 pm

maybe a doubling cube like backgammon,,,, with preuem only>
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Postby Bull Dog on Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:37 pm

first u would have to earn the points before you can wager them. When you join you already start at 1000. Lets say you would need 1500 points before you can enter wagered games. never letting you bet your intial 1000 points. That would eliminate any multi's
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Postby AK_iceman on Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:48 am

Bull Dog wrote:first u would have to earn the points before you can wager them. When you join you already start at 1000. Lets say you would need 1500 points before you can enter wagered games. never letting you bet your intial 1000 points. That would eliminate any multi's

Thats what you think... we have had quite a few multis who were colonels.. and even one guy who had 3 accounts in the top 5 of the scoreboard!
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Postby Dlakavi on Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:44 pm

it is relytively easy to get to 1500 points, make 4 accounts of 1500, wager 500 in a game and make one general :)
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Postby Bull Dog on Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:10 pm

Is it that bad here to somebody would stoop so low. May be the first thing would be have some type of system to stop muti's.....there must be away.
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Postby gulio on Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:24 pm

I don't think people should see what points are being wagered. I've been in games where the high point players take out the ^ and ? players first because they're scared of losing points.

Sometimes Points take the fun away. Most people > 1400 points will not play with a Single ^ or ? player because they're scared of losing points - fair enough.

I like playing with ? players because you get to teach them... I then like to play agaisnt ^^^'s or higher players to get my points back :lol:
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Postby dugcarr1 on Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:38 pm

i think we should be able to gamble.... only on doubles games so there could never be cheeting
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Postby P Gizzle on Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:51 pm

AK_iceman wrote:
Bull Dog wrote:first u would have to earn the points before you can wager them. When you join you already start at 1000. Lets say you would need 1500 points before you can enter wagered games. never letting you bet your intial 1000 points. That would eliminate any multi's

Thats what you think... we have had quite a few multis who were colonels.. and even one guy who had 3 accounts in the top 5 of the scoreboard!



who was that?!!
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Postby sully800 on Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:55 pm

dugcarr1 wrote:i think we should be able to gamble.... only on doubles games so there could never be cheeting


How would that prevent cheating?

You could use the exact same method described before. Create 4 accounts, have them all join a game, 2 win 999 points and are on the brink of being colonels instantly.

I think that betting points would completely open up the scoreboard to abuse. People are willing to go to great lengths to cheat and steal their way to large amounts of points (and some of those people ARE highly ranked). With a system this easy to abuse the scoreboard would become a joke.
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Suggestion : Pink Slips!

Postby yeti_c on Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:29 am

* Suggestion Idea:

In racing circles there is a term called "pink slips" which basically means you race against each other and whoever wins takes the pink slips away with them. My idea is instead of winning/losing points based on current rank - you could bet an amount of points into the pot for a game and the winner takes all.

* Why it is needed:

I'm not sure if this is a good idea or not - but it popped into my head and I thought that I would let the public decide!!

* Priority** (1-5): ?
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Postby spiesr on Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:58 am

Sounds like it could really be abused...
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Postby yeti_c on Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:39 am

spiesr wrote:Sounds like it could really be abused...


Yeah my worries too!!

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Postby AmericanEagle on Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:36 pm

that sounds kinda cool.

you could also just have the creator make the pot amount. that way you know what everyone else will have to bet as well.
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Postby Marvaddin on Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:11 pm

^^^^ Agreed.
But you need to know how much you are going to bet earlier.

A thing to think about: possible bet 0?
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Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:09 pm

Hm, what about people creating new accounts, playing in game, having them each bet 999 points (or some other arbitrary high number), and allowing a main account to shoot to the top of the board? Obviously these people would be flagged right away, but the potential for abuse out weighs and fun this could have.

It also seems to take away the 'skill' factor of rank on the scoreboard. Win a few lucky games, and boom, you're up among the best? PFft.


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Postby AK_iceman on Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:11 pm

Or there could be a maximum bet put into place, say 20?
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Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:13 pm

Still not a fan of it, one more way to abuse the system and encourage people to create more multiple accounts. :)


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solution

Postby Loudawg on Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:25 pm

if you really wanted to do it ... this is how I think it would need to work ... you could do it like a private invite poker tournament where all the players in that tournament would have to be approved tp play .. If you kept a large minimun entry per tourney , where there were plenty of players it would be very hard to get a multi account on the same table sorta speak .. not that it couldnt be done but that there would be to many eyes out there looking and to much randomness for someone to want to try ... I like the idea of a massive betting tournament forsure ..especially if you could up the ante during the game play ... if you dont match the ante .. your out .. it would make for very fast paced games and put alot of pressure on someone if they werent sure they could win or not ... thats why poker is fun and why backgammon for points is fun .. it would be madness but if you had someone willing to run it lol it would be off the hook ... :twisted:
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Re: solution

Postby yeti_c on Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:29 am

Loudawg wrote:if you really wanted to do it ... this is how I think it would need to work ... you could do it like a private invite poker tournament where all the players in that tournament would have to be approved tp play .. If you kept a large minimun entry per tourney , where there were plenty of players it would be very hard to get a multi account on the same table sorta speak .. not that it couldnt be done but that there would be to many eyes out there looking and to much randomness for someone to want to try ... I like the idea of a massive betting tournament forsure ..especially if you could up the ante during the game play ... if you dont match the ante .. your out .. it would make for very fast paced games and put alot of pressure on someone if they werent sure they could win or not ... thats why poker is fun and why backgammon for points is fun .. it would be madness but if you had someone willing to run it lol it would be off the hook ... :twisted:


Yes - perhaps this would work as a prize for a tournament?

Or maybe tournie entry costs (say) 100 points...

Winner takes 75% Other people in the final take 5%.

Andy - I agree about the abuse (I was worried about that too) - hence this suggestion of limiting it to tournie games is a great addition to the idea.

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Postby Econ2000 on Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:47 pm

u could have unrated games but bet? scenario: a general bets 1 and a private bets 500 = general wins = private cries at home like a baby = unfair (no offense anybody)
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Postby spiesr on Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:00 pm

This would wreck the score board as luck would be a huge factor...(more so than now)
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Postby everywhere116 on Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:01 pm

Mabey someone could create a tournament based on pink slips, but it shouldnt be tied into the CC database.
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How bout you set the limit before.

Postby hecter on Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:49 pm

How bout you could set the limit when you create the game, and have a maximuim of 50. That way everyone knows the stakes, how much they are going to lose in the game, but also how much they could win.
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