Good Morning Woodboro (V7.X) -- Home for the Holidays

[Evil DIMwit]

I still think we should be allowed to make 2 player only maps, but I guess that is far beyond the scope of this discussion.

Well, as long as we're waiting for the poll, I'd absolutely welcome another controversial discussion on map design limits. Last time it was territory count, now it's player count -- maybe for my next map I'll challenge the established trope that players should be able to attack.

[captainwalrus]

I like 8 player games best, but I also agree that there is no reason that you shouldn't be able to haveonly 2 player games if you really want, and I think they would be able to be better for 1v1 than maps that have to be usable for eight players. I am not really sure the reasoning behind having that rule, but they have always seemed pretty set on keeping it.

[Evil DIMwit]

Well, the technical bottom limit would have to be 3 since 2-player games divide into 3 parts anyway.

[Industrial Helix]

I like option 1, but I think the dish houses are at some disadvantage with a bombard only while the bases have a one way attack. Might have to figure out how to balance that a little more... maybe have the dishes act like antennas and start 1 killer neutral? Or, just make the dish houses radio stations.

Otherwise... if you for some reason get away with having a 6 player map, I would endorse this as the best possible option.

I don't see why every game ought to be available to 8 players... CC will have more flexibility in having games that are suitable for limited players.

[DJ Teflon]

Analysing the 6-player situation, we can state that:

This map has support through its poll for being 6-player.

The advantages of the 6-player option are:

The map can stick with its' original design as a small map.

When adding / changing features to accommodate 8-players the map would not be able to follow its original gameplay structure and play would be congested in the central areas in a 7/8-player game.

There are already a number of maps which can accommodate max. 6-players, adding one more would make little difference to the overall choice of maps available for 7/8-player games.

I am personally inclined to support the 6-player option, especially as this is a relatively small map with single starting positions. The preference for maps being designed to 8-players is entirely right for larger maps, or maps with more classic-style gameplay. However, if the requirement is universally implemented it means that map-makers are restricted in their ability to construct smaller maps with starting positions - a style of map which would be both interesting and popular.

I'll double-check for a second opinion on this as I wouldn't wish for loads of graft to go into the 6-player version only for this issue to come back at a later stage. That would be a nightmare.

[Evil DIMwit]

Come to think of it, another way to support 8 players without getting rid of significant gameplay elements might look like

Click image to enlarge.

Here Roma and Lapid are receiver dishes that work just like in the 6-player option, while Klein and Carlin are the pirates. I'm not sure how they'd behave but I'm not too worried about balancing them against the tower stations because they're only starting positions in 7-8 player matches. However, they would necessarily have 3 neutral to begin with so their abilities would have to be appropriate. Probably they auto-deploy +1 and remotely attack something-or-other-I'm-not-sure. The biggest drawback, I think, is that since the pirates are right next to the dishes, and each station player starts their first turn with 8 troops on their station, it might be too easy to eliminate a pirates right off the bat -- especially annoying in Assassin games. That could be fixed by raising the dish house neutral value to 4, maybe?

Either way I do tend to think the 6-player option as I have it up now might be a bit too simplistic for my taste, anyway. There's room for another gameplay feature, or possibly two small ones.

[thenobodies80]

Game type flexibility. The map should support various game types and not be designed with specific/limited game settings in mind (standard, assassin, fog of war, 2-8 players, etc.).

A 6-player-limit map supports 70% of possible game settings and there are enough extant maps with this limit that it wouldn't be unusual if a new one came out..

Map with less than 8 players aren't forbidden, but discouraged.

Since the precedent has been set for hard-coding players per map, I wouldn't say it is forbidden. But it should be discouraged and only approved if the map is really something special.

You've already found some possible variants that support 8 players and my advice is to develop one of these options.
Generally, maps limited to less than 8 players are welcome only in execeptional cases and if the gameplay is affected by the presence of two additional players.
However,it is good practice to develope each map without a specific limit for type or number of players (specially with your good, and working, variants )

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Said that,This one is a nice map!
We need some funny (and well-reasoned) ideas like this here around.
With all these versions i'd like to postpone a bit any suggestions, but my personal choice was for 8 players combo.

Have a nice day

[Evil DIMwit]

Loud and clear. Looks like we have plenty of 8-player possibilities to go around which I would not mind implementing at all. Maybe one day I'll try for a map exceptional enough for the limit, but not today.

[Evil DIMwit]

It looks like the leaders in the poll are allowing only 6 players (which I think isn't vital enough for this map to justify) or the 8-player combo option. Thanks to everyone who's voted so far. My question for you now: What about these versions made them preferable for you?

[captainwalrus]

I really like the concept of the pirate radio stations, and they seem balanced, since they have more places that they can easily attack things and are in the middle of everything, kind of like china in classic.

[thenobodies80]

Click image to enlarge.

Here Roma and Lapid are receiver dishes that work just like in the 6-player option, while Klein and Carlin are the pirates. I'm not sure how they'd behave but I'm not too worried about balancing them against the tower stations because they're only starting positions in 7-8 player matches. However, they would necessarily have 3 neutral to begin with so their abilities would have to be appropriate. Probably they auto-deploy +1 and remotely attack something-or-other-I'm-not-sure. The biggest drawback, I think, is that since the pirates are right next to the dishes, and each station player starts their first turn with 8 troops on their station, it might be too easy to eliminate a pirates right off the bat -- especially annoying in Assassin games. That could be fixed by raising the dish house neutral value to 4, maybe?

Either way I do tend to think the 6-player option as I have it up now might be a bit too simplistic for my taste, anyway. There's room for another gameplay feature, or possibly two small ones.

I was thinking back to my vote.
The quoted version could be the best way to have a map that suits perfectly games with 6 players, but still playble with 7/8 players.
Agree with the 4 neutral troops to prevent a quick elimination.
What gameplay features do you have in mind?

[Evil DIMwit]

What gameplay features do you have in mind?

I'm not quite sure. There's room in the instruction space but just because you can fit it in doesn't mean it's a good idea. Is the map too plain as it is?

[thenobodies80]

I'm not quite sure. There's room in the instruction space but just because you can fit it in doesn't mean it's a good idea.

how right you are!

Is the map too plain as it is?

No i don't think that the map is too plain....It's small, simple and clear.
But if you are searching for another gameplay feature, maybe make homes more interesting and active in the game, or try to work on the neutral values to get a small but not "fast ending" map. (just random thoughts ).

Follow your instinct, it's your map....for you it's good enough?

[Mr_Adams]

6 player, I'd play. 8 player, I'd play with 6 players . 8 man version 2 was confusing. Combo sux

[Evil DIMwit]

Well, I guess this version is as good as any. I changed the instructions around to make 'em cuter (also there's a typo I'll fix later).

Click image to enlarge.

http://www.freewebs.com/dimagic/ConquerClub/Woodboro_R2.png

The 6-player option has the majority and I think this is the closest thing to that which still allows for those two extra players. It won't look pretty with 8 players but of course (a) it's not supposed to and (b) that won't stop people.

Also, the pirate stations now make for a nice couple of one-way bridges across the lake which might actually take some pressure off the two stations in the middle.

Also, the neutral values for the dish houses are at 2 because that's the same number of neutrals a station would run up against if it tried to reach a pirate via the ground.

Also, could someone in charge wrap up the poll? It's served its purpose.