WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby edgarhons on Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:58 pm

I suppose it is a good adjustment. Still my favorite level.
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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:02 am

edgarhons wrote:I suppose it is a good adjustment. Still my favorite level.


Suppose!? Do you have anything better to offer?
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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby waseemalim on Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:24 am

thank u cairns. This will definitely make me play this map more often -- now that I can apply some real strategy on it.
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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby troubadour64 on Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:32 am

you gotta get that cricket map going ! :lol:
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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:16 am

troubadour64 wrote:you gotta get that cricket map going ! :lol:

well. 'twould be helpful if you get over there and give it some support please. :)
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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby phantomzero on Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:08 pm

This will make this map way better!
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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby barterer2002 on Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:32 pm

Thanks Cairns, I really like the map but in smaller games (dubs or 1v1/3 player) there was always too much advantage to going first. This change will take away some of that advantage and make the map play fairer without removing some of the great gameplay issues that you innovated here.
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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby mkcummins on Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:09 pm

probably too late, but an alternative would have been to simply change the amount of the bonus, instead of the composition of the bonus.

+1 for every 2 planes instead of +3.

i do agree that a change was necessary, but were multiple options ever discussed?
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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:59 pm

mkcummins wrote:probably too late, but an alternative would have been to simply change the amount of the bonus, instead of the composition of the bonus.

+1 for every 2 planes instead of +3.

i do agree that a change was necessary, but were multiple options ever discussed?


Multiple options were never discussed.
your suggestion of +1 for every 2 planes would have still given the first player opportunity of gaining a bonus if they got a good drop on the planes group. :(
The suggestion that i have have put forward makes it much harder to gain the bonus on the drop, possibly practically elminating it altogether. :)
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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby shidarin on Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:00 pm

Hmm, I personally feel it's too radical of a change- especially since in the actual game (and not just the drop) the planes played such an integral part of the overall strategy.

It seems like it's a big leap from +3 every 2 to +3 every 4.

Why not +3 every 3? It'd still be more difficult to achieve on the initial drop, while not radically changing the strategies currently employed on the map.
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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby aspalm on Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:14 pm

I agree that this is too big a change for one of my favorite boards. while i would agree that in a 1v1 our doubs game, the initial turn has quite the advantage, the current system makes it one of the better maps for trips and quads games. a lot of strategy as far as whether to go for planes or AA's, etc. Now it will be just like any other quads/trips boards, where people often play to take out someone instead of going for bonuses. Disappointing. Why not make both versions available? :(
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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:55 pm

aspalm wrote:.....Why not make both versions available? :(

Now that's a positive suggestion, but i don't know if lackattack would allow it. :?:
and besides, do we really need to have two maps...could set a precendant! :)
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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:56 pm

shidarin wrote:Hmm, I personally feel it's too radical of a change- especially since in the actual game (and not just the drop) the planes played such an integral part of the overall strategy.

It seems like it's a big leap from +3 every 2 to +3 every 4.

Why not +3 every 3? It'd still be more difficult to achieve on the initial drop, while not radically changing the strategies currently employed on the map.



Perhaps a vote would be an option?
Or is that going overbaord?
Whichever way we go, i don't think we keep everyone happy.
Now where's those high-faluting strategists when you need them. :roll:
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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby netspyman on Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:05 am

this is one of my faviot maps and i play it a lot. I do agree that it is a clear advantage going first if you have a good drop. I think what would work better and keep the same game statagie is to change the bonus to a lower amount and also increase the planes needed like 2 for +1 3 for +2 that way peps would still go for the planes and aa's. It would also make the drop not so one sided.

Just my thoughts


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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby iancanton on Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:09 am

this is worth doing properly. bonuses for 4 and 5 planes! no half-hearted measures!

ian. :)
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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby a.sub on Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:35 pm

:?: :?: :?: :?:
im SO confused!
what changed?
from what to what?
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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:41 pm

a.sub wrote::?: :?: :?: :?:
im SO confused!
what changed?
from what to what?



Gees a.sub, can't you read on the previous page :shock:

From

* Until Group taken, within any Group
+ 3 any 2 aircraft + 4 any 4 aircraft


To


* Until Group taken, within any Group
+ 3 any 4 aircraft + 4 any 5 aircraft
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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby a.sub on Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:42 pm

OOOOOOH :oops: :oops: :oops:
wow that was stupid of me!
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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby Knight2254 on Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:27 pm

I play this map quite a bit as well and have had great success. As far as imbalanced -- I'm not so sure it is. Sometimes, but not everytime. I'm 16 for 19 with a rating of "equalitarian." If you exclude the 8 player free for all I just finished I'm 16 for 18 in team games so there must be something I do differently than everybody else because certainly I've had more than 2 "bad drops" yet I maintained a 88+% win percentage.

I could get on board with lessening the bonus, but the way you're doing it you are making the AA guns WAY too valuable. Now it's going to be very difficult to get a bonus aside from the AA guns so whoever gets those will simply reinforce those every turn and be able to shoot down enough planes to eliminate the plane bonuses.

If we do anything I think we should reduce the bonuses as suggested previously -- Something like +1 for 2, +2 for 3, +3 for 3. This would allow you, if you did not get the AA bonuses (then you're probably loaded with planes), to have a fighting chance.
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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby a.sub on Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:20 pm

well i havent counted myself, but why not reduce the number of planes that are starting positions
so if its +1 for 3 and there are 6 planes, in an 8 man one person has a 23.4%* chance of getting 3 planes
but if you reduce it to 5 planes are starting positions then its down to 3.9%*
its an incredibly small change map wise, but a MASSIVE one drop wise.


equation = (probability of getting 1 plane)^(number of planes wanted) * (number of spots)! /(number of planes so 1,2,3 is counted but 2,3,1 etc. arent)!
* (1/8)^(3)*(6)!/(3)!=.234375=23.4375%
* (1/8)^(3)*(5)!/(3)!=.039063=3.9063%
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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby a.sub on Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:25 pm

oh once i make a suggestion everyone gets bored with the topic?
HMPH!!
*goes to the corner angrily*
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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby shidarin on Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:29 pm

Random thought- it'd be interesting if you couldn't receive the AA bonus if you possessed any of the planes that AA attacks.

Since you can't send up flak at your own planes :)

I think an idea that's emerging is lessening the bonuses by 1, or increasing the planes needed by 1.

At the same time, a.sub mentioned that starting off some of the planes are neutral would help with initial 1v1 drops. Ideally these would be planes near the center (Z4, V5,4 etc), crowded area of the map and not dead end planes like V1 or Z1,2 (so that you wouldn't have an easily defendable area on first drop because of the neut planes)
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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:52 pm

a.sub wrote:oh once i make a suggestion everyone gets bored with the topic?
HMPH!!
*goes to the corner angrily*


a.sub...i have more going on in my life at present than this map, so don't be discouraged if you don't get an answer immediately.

To the thoughts from people of dropping the number of planes that start....
It will not happen. Period.
This is a map met to revolve around the initial attack by the planes.
I am not interested in changing that., so please do not ask further on this line.

We can ensure that seomone doesn't get an immediate bonus on the drop by making the drop aspect harder for all games, but i tend also to agree with Knight2254, that the map is reasonably well balanced apart from the drop, and this is the aspect that has been most troublesome over the last year or more for most players.

If someone wants to play the AA batteries then good that is there option...but I am not in favour of making it easier to get plane bonuses, like +1 for 2, +2 for 3 etc.

I am happy to reconfirm the changed bonuses for the planes and agree with Ian canton....
iancanton wrote:this is worth doing properly. bonuses for 4 and 5 planes! no half-hearted measures!
ian. :)


cairnswk wrote:From

* Until Group taken, within any Group
+ 3 any 2 aircraft + 4 any 4 aircraft


To


* Until Group taken, within any Group
+ 3 any 4 aircraft + 4 any 5 aircraft
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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby a.sub on Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:04 am

cairnswk wrote:
a.sub wrote:oh once i make a suggestion everyone gets bored with the topic?
HMPH!!
*goes to the corner angrily*


a.sub...i have more going on in my life at present than this map, so don't be discouraged if you don't get an answer immediately.


simmer down i was joking
:roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

Postby cairnswk on Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:52 am

a.sub wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
a.sub wrote:oh once i make a suggestion everyone gets bored with the topic?
HMPH!!
*goes to the corner angrily*


a.sub...i have more going on in my life at present than this map, so don't be discouraged if you don't get an answer immediately.


simmer down i was joking
:roll: :roll: :roll:


I'm quite calm. Thanks. ;)
Unfortunately i can't red any intonations from your face or other expressions you might use because you failed to indicate that you were joking....Sorry. :roll:
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