[Abandoned] - Goblin Tribes

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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby Danyael on Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:29 pm

So after many busy days and I apologize about the delay
Version 16
Click image to enlarge.
image

Changes
Brighten up the background so its not as dark around Moodoog and Billeh.
Expanded the faces around the title
Moved Skivee's name off his head and downsized him slighty (Thank you JP know you can see his eye brows lol)
Fixed alot of small pixels and such

I'm about 100% happy with the large.
I've fiddled with the F but i really enjoy how it looks and I do not believe people will confuse it with a different letter(at least on large)
my only concern is the chief name combo. So I'll try some other things out as well as work on any nitpick you my may have(concerning legend names and things of those nature

The small on the other hand i had to start over which caused some of the delays
Click image to enlarge.
image

so it was pretty much 1 step forward 2 steps back
Small Issues
Since i redid it i'm not as happy with the streching on some parts of land(Zoop for one)
I'm planning on doing it over again but i doing the small over a third time(and soon a forth).
I have figured out a way to make it taller and give my self even more room on the territs

That said I believe the large is on its final version(besides your nitpicks, any suggestion you may have and the chief name fiddling. The small will be ready to finalize as well soon.

TO DO
Large:
your nitpicks *no major overhauls*
and playing around with chief names(I would greatly enjoy ideas)
Small:
redo map so land is not as distorted and give more territ space(should have that done thursday)
make a colour army numbers for small for your viewing pleasure

Now that i mention it here is the coloured numbers for large I personally see no issue.
Do you?
(i know there aren't perfectly aligned #-o )
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby porkenbeans on Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:27 pm

I really like the cartoon style. Your characters are very cool. Maybe you would consider brightening it up just bit ?
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Last edited by porkenbeans on Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby Danyael on Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:15 am

Pork don't waste your time you have been foed
the last update is right above you and yet you suggest a change to the previous version
(fail)
I Don't need your polish it seems to wreck more maps then most
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby porkenbeans on Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:32 am

Danyael wrote:Pork don't waste your time you have been foed
the last update is right above you and yet you suggest a change to the previous version
(fail)
I Don't need your polish it seems to wreck more maps then most
WTF ?
I can't understand your English very well. In any case, good luck with your map.
But I do have to disagree with your assertion about my "polish". You should be so lucky to receive any pork polish. lofl. :lol:
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby squishyg on Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:11 am

Play nicely boys...

The troop numbers look great to me!

I'm not in love with the chief names. There's something off about them. When attacking, would it say "Billeh" or "Billeh-Chief"? The names right now don't really distinguish from the other territories.
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby SuicidalSnowman on Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:42 am

porkenbeans wrote:
Danyael wrote:Pork don't waste your time you have been foed
the last update is right above you and yet you suggest a change to the previous version
(fail)
I Don't need your polish it seems to wreck more maps then most
WTF ?
I can't understand your English very well. In any case, good luck with your map.
But I do have to disagree with your assertion about my "polish". You should be so lucky to receive any pork polish. lofl. :lol:



I'm a little late to the party, and I don't know if you guys have some past history and this is maybe a troll post, but I agree that the lighter version is easier to see or read.


Otherwise though, I am really impressed with the graphics on this map!
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby Danyael on Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:07 pm

i agree squishyg I'm not a big fan of the font for the chiefs and its look
My ideas
in the xml Will have it
Billeh Blood Chief
But there is otherways it could work
Billeh Bloods
Blood Chief Billeh
Billeh (Chief)
Billeh (blood Chief)
and so on and so forth. any you would prefer or that work best
I could Just have the Chiefs name on the map(different font?!) and in the xml it will have the Blood Chief Billleh
As i did in a previous does the title font look better as the chief font. If i use the title font(lowercase) I'll just have the Chiefs' Name on the map and one of the ^ Examples
in the xml if that makes sense

SuicidalSnowman wrote:
I'm a little late to the party, and I don't know if you guys have some past history and this is maybe a troll post, but I agree that the lighter version is easier to see or read.


Otherwise though, I am really impressed with the graphics on this map!

there is no reason to quote his flame baiting and trolling
He has no idea what he is talking about does not understand mood or atmosphere
as the mythos goes "Deep within the Forest of Faces" not "close to the sun goblins have there fun"
the map yes is dark on a proper computer monitor properly set it is perfectly legible and there is proper lighting
he posted and edited on version that he copied and saved in his own photo bucket account
Probably edited it there too #-o
as well look at the previous update and the question i posed and then he wait till my next update to post like i didn't even work on brightening it up
and post a overly bright look and a darker look which causes confusion to people that reads the topic for the first time

I don't want to give this troll any attention due to the fact He's a flame baiting Troll and i don't have the easiest time biting my tongue

As i'm almost off topic
Thanks for the compliments on the map i hope you understand that it supposed to be a spooky map and upping the Brightness enough to distort it ruins the atmosphere of it
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby porkenbeans on Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:13 pm

"I really like the cartoon style. Your characters are very cool. Maybe you would consider brightening it up just bit ?"Gotta say I was quit puzzled by Dans attitude. I said nothing in the way of a flame or bait. On the contrary, I like his map, and even went the extra step by illustrating a suggestion for him. And yes, I did just take it to photobucket to quickly make fine adjustments to the settings. You must know that all images must be hosted on a site like photobucket to be able to upload them here.
Like I said, I WAS puzzled until I did A little searching to see just where dan must have gotten miffed with me. I found it, and it is a crack up. The 4 posts beginning here says it all.
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=68322&start=30#p2161802
I wish you luck in your future map making quests. Your style is unique, and with the help of those experienced map makers here at CC, that are willing to help, ...You just might be able to quench a few. ;)
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby SuicidalSnowman on Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:00 pm

Thanks porkenbeans, I enjoyed that little bit of context.

As for the map itself, I am just offering my commentary as a player. I think the map has beautiful graphics, but I doubt I will play very many games on it. When playing, I don't want to have to strain to figure out where boundaries are or how bonuses work, or to read the text.

While I don't really care who takes credit for it, the lightened example is, for me, much easier to read.

Some examples where I am struggling with the current version are the bonus descriptions in the top right, the poem in the bottom left, territories myz, mek, boo, booger, bug, fungi, sqk, skizz, and socket, among others. I find myself having to lean closer to my monitor to fully get an idea of what is going on, where the borders are, etc.

I am not skilled in computer graphics and illustration myself, however as a practical lay person who enjoy CC games, the lighter version demonstrated is MUCH easier to read. To me, it also still manages to capture much of the atmosphere.

Also, my laptop automatically adjusts the screen brightness for optimal conditions. Even then, with scaling through all the options, I still find the dark version unnecessarily hard to read.



I also think that in today's lexicon, you might change the names of Skank and Skizz to something with a little less adult connotations.

I DO think the naming is otherwise very intuitive.

Also, you might want to make the legend for the one way attacks a little bit clearer. Perhaps rotate the graphic in the legend to show that the arrow is facing the same direction as the leaf.
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby Danyael on Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:03 pm

SuicidalSnowman wrote:As for the map itself, I am just offering my commentary as a player. I think the map has beautiful graphics, but I doubt I will play very many games on it. When playing, I don't want to have to strain to figure out where boundaries are or how bonuses work, or to read the text.

While I don't really care who takes credit for it, the lightened example is, for me, much easier to read.

I very much appreciate your comments
I completely agree that having to be close up to the screen to have to read things is a problem
not being able to read important information such are the mythos which contains important info on one way secrets
I don't use the same computer for internet that i do my adobe. The one i use is 10 year old computer monitor the map itself is very dark and lot darker then on the laptop.
I can still read everything perfectly but since i've spend so much time looking at the map i don't notice things in the same light as a fresh viewer. I understand that Brightness is an issue but in no way is it for the overall map
Only key spots as you've stated below and is 100% more helpful of a suggestion than just screwing with the flattened image causing everything to be out of whack and causing more issues in the long run so as you are more helpful in pointing out the issues lets address and fix the issues
Some examples where I am struggling with the current version are the bonus descriptions in the top right, the poem in the bottom left, territories myz, mek, boo, booger, bug, fungi, sqk, skizz, and socket, among others. I find myself having to lean closer to my monitor to fully get an idea of what is going on, where the borders are, etc.

just in case you are not looking at the most up to date image
Version 16
Click image to enlarge.
image

First off the poem
Yes it actual is harder to read since i did the adjust in the background and I noticed that its layer and font is not set to what it should be will work on its clarity
In a previous version i blacked out the background to improve the clarity but I must of erased that layer with out noticing i will work on improving it so its clear what it say
But i apologize you must at least read it once its important knowledge ;) (i hate reading too)
Now lets address the territs
Myz and Mek are the only ones I'm puzzle with. Do you Struggle to see the territ names or borders?
Has for The Territs around Zoom these are very dark compared to most of the map
I think some of the problem is the darkness around the impassable forest area(its casted shadow) mainly under it and then having the font so close to it make the names a little harder to make out as boo and bug have extra grit on the land i think if i make its opacity less this will improve its clarity ten fold
Same thing was added to booger blok and bud there fore I'll tweek the grit there too
Fungi I think the name is the only thing that is tough to see this is because the hobhouse's shadow is overlapping it This is cause from the house being on a higher layer then the name easy layer move will fix this thanks for pointy that one out as it was a step I overlooked
I hope these are what Causes the issues with the overall darkness in theses areas
I believe that all of the borders are prominent enough to see the connections
If layed back 3-4 feet from the moniter they aren't as easy to tell but when in a forest your not familiar with you can get lost and deeper you get harder it is too see where to go so a closer look is needed to find the right path I like that about this map
I hope that makes sense as well remeber Goblins are tricky and they are are tricky bunch ;)

As for the legend I'll make the font colour a touch more of a true red
As i am very colour blind I have an easier time seeing the true colours on black hen on white
thus it might not be a true red and this making it darker or harder to read for people with perfect eyes so i'll adjust its colour better hopefully improving the legibility(once again as its important info)
Thank you for indicating the main problems as said this is helpful as some people posts are not. So i'll fix these little Problems and in the next update please let me Know if it is clearer
because I in the long run this will improve the map and still not throw off the overall feel

I am not skilled in computer graphics and illustration myself, however as a practical lay person who enjoy CC games, the lighter version demonstrated is MUCH easier to read. To me, it also still manages to capture much of the atmosphere.

Also, my laptop automatically adjusts the screen brightness for optimal conditions. Even then, with scaling through all the options, I still find the dark version unnecessarily hard to read.

No need to explain as a layman player of the game your comments are needed in the foundry
Because they are precise and helpful. Yes its a darker map and not everyone is into that and i have no problem in excepting this. I don't want it super bright but I do not want it to be unplayable due to this. Since I believe its not unplayable as is, minor tweaks in the areas mentioned will help out and improve your issues


I also think that in today's lexicon, you might change the names of Skank and Skizz to something with a little less adult connotations.

I DO think the naming is otherwise very intuitive.

Also, you might want to make the legend for the one way attacks a little bit clearer. Perhaps rotate the graphic in the legend to show that the arrow is facing the same direction as the leaf.

:lol: :roll:
As some English words have a Bad or dirty meaning it all depends on the persons interpretation not the actual word.
As Skank is mainly a term used to refer to a slut or hooker this is not the meaning i think of when skank is said
Its more along the line of the style of dancing ska fans refer to as Skankin
and this makes me think of black suited thin tie goblins skanking it up :lol:
and i don't even know what Skizz would refer too i thought i made it up
as i see why some people would have a problem i think they should just suck it up or grow up and stop having a dirty mind
I'll rotate the one way arrow but i think it demonstrates the direction properly
"one way from tree to leaf tip"
So i don't see how the rotation will improve anything but I'll give it a try
Thanks for your input keep an eye out the next update will address your concerns
P.S pork made a bright version and compared it to another edit of the same version making it darker then it was This causes confusion
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby SuicidalSnowman on Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:23 pm

I think I am having a problem with the territories sort of just melding into the background, that is why the borer territories are the most confusing. I guess I sort of inherently know that they are just running into the border, but the fact that they are very dark, with the black line, then the dark background doesn't really set it off in my eye.

Like specifically Mek and Myz, that whole corner is so dark, it just seems very muddled. Compare that to the bottom of Scab, Scrub, and Sqaat. See how there is an obvious dark line setting them off from the background? I think that is why it ends up looking too dark to me, because it is difficult to tell where they end.

How you address that, I have no idea.

I'll keep checking back for newer versions though.
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby Danyael on Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:41 pm

So if i understand Properly
Myz And Meks is tougher to see cause of the background being darker in that area I belive that If I brighten the Faces a little more in that area so its closer to the brightness of the background near the skull territs you mentioned this will improve it more as well the background around boo could used the same treatment
Thanks
I think As you've stated it is inherent that where the borders and connections are but the darker background in those areas are making it muddled with the territ and not giving the same pop to the land as the more inner territs. So i'll do the same thing i did from V15 to V16
in those corners to make it slighly more defined between the back ground and territs and some of the other fixes won't need as much work as first thought
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby squishyg on Sun Sep 13, 2009 1:20 pm

RE: Chief Names

I like this best- Billeh (Chief)
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby Danyael on Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:13 pm

squishyg wrote:RE: Chief Names

I like this best- Billeh (Chief)


perfect and I'll just put there name on the map in the lowercase font of the title
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby Tisha on Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:45 pm

when putting the 888 on your map, the first two 88 are the ones that need centered, and the third falls off to the right. the first two always stay centered in game.. they like the third there to make sure no letting or borders are blocked at all..

and I can see everything fine in the latest version.. I don't like it GLOWING bright..
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg11 sept8 Final Large? Smallproblems

Postby Danyael on Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:51 pm

yes those 888 i got lazy with first 2 centred last one over the circle is how it will be with the xml
but i'll do it right for viewing pleasure
And i agree glowing bright makes it look like crap
there is a few spot to brighten up but nothing will be that bright
Thanks Tisha
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg12 sept23 Final Large

Postby Danyael on Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:42 pm

Version 17
Click image to enlarge.
image


Changes

lowered grit opacity on Blood region
lowered shadow on foresty area within the map in the bottom left
moved fungi text ahead of hob house so the shadow on longer over laps
brighten up forest of faces foreground under myz and mek(too add suicidalsnowmans "pop")
added black to transparent outer glow around mythos
moved boo text, circle, and symbol so boarders are more clear

TO DO

change it to only chief name on map in different font
will specify blood chief mud chief etc in XML
finish small map
i think i'm happy with it but I still need to fiddle with some thing before I post it

Large Graphics

nitpicks on legend
is there any thing unclear or unreadable? if so
-is it the size or the or background that is causing the issue?
is the mythos clear enough? (bottom left)
I will not brighten any more of the background. I think its 100% clear with all borders and territs so It still keeps with the mood of a goblin grotto.

only comments or suggestion needed should be legend and text based(alignments and nudges and clarity issues) these are most useful at this stage of the large map as actual map land and forest of faces foreground are perfect in my opinion besides the odd pixelation
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg12 sept23 Final Large

Postby SuicidalSnowman on Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:46 pm

BRAVO! I can see the borders much more clearly now, and you didn't have to make it fluorescent!!! So much nicer. =D> =D> =D>
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg12 sept23 Final Large

Postby squishyg on Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:12 pm

it's purty. like your mouth. snoogins.

good job Danyael!!!!!
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg12 sept23 Final Large

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:49 pm

Looks good! One question does zip and zap, zoom and zoop attack each other? I'm thinking that they do?
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg12 sept23 Final Large

Postby pikkio on Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:49 am

STAMP THIS MAP GUYS!!!

it's quite perfect since many weeks, what are you waiting for??
Image
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg12 sept23 Final Large

Postby RedBaron0 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:39 pm

Large and small maps need to be completed to get the Graphics stamp. Should be good otherwise though. :)

pikkio wrote:STAMP THIS MAP GUYS!!!

it's quite perfect since many weeks, what are you waiting for??


Couple maps can say the same thing... :P ;) :mrgreen: 8-[
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v16 pg12 sept30 small almost

Postby Danyael on Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:26 pm

pikkio wrote:STAMP THIS MAP GUYS!!!

it's quite perfect since many weeks, what are you waiting for??


i think they are waiting for my lazy ass on the small
I believe its down to nudge here nudge there enlarge that (text wise and icon wise) but besides that BAM
Click image to enlarge.
image

Changes
to make a small I flattened the main image :shock:
and put down my artist brush and started the good old photoshop copy transform and paste machine
Enlarged Booger, Bud, Blok, Sqaat, and Flack area to improve space for Text
added pixels to top and bottom cloning and bandaging forest of faces slightly enlarging the land for space for text and 888s
shifted text icons and so many other little things
MAJOR CONCERNS
is the legend legible
The Chief text is small I'm working on setting to make it clearer
TO DO
finish nudges on the mud icons and text(small)
add chief name to large and small maps
post both complete versions with and without 888
XML

squishyg wrote:it's purty. like your mouth. snoogins.

good job Danyael!!!!!

:-s ohhh thank you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eI_ASEqXuM

isaiah40 wrote:Looks good! One question does zip and zap, zoom and zoop attack each other? I'm thinking that they do?

thanks same type connect
zip and zap are evil mine
zoom and zoop are dark portals
Is that what you mean if not i'm not sure how to make it any clearer
SuicidalSnowman wrote:BRAVO! I can see the borders much more clearly now, and you didn't have to make it fluorescent!!! So much nicer. =D> =D> =D>

thank you
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v18 pg12 sept30 L/S Done Nudges Needed?

Postby Danyael on Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:27 pm


VERSION 18

Small
Click image to enlarge.
image


Large
Click image to enlarge.
image


W/888
show



Changes
-Added Chief names

Small
-enlarged boo around dark portal
-enlarged chief details in legend

TODO
names & icon nudges please help in pointing these out
-already think Zoop should be moved on large over too where the circle is
and place the circle above it (as is the 888 will overlap)
XML :)
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Re: Goblin Tribes[D,GP]v18 pg12 sept30 L/S Done Nudges Needed?

Postby MrBenn on Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:36 pm

I'm really confused about some of the attack rules, and the reasons for them... How on earth do you attack the chiefs? Do you need a chief to get the region bonus? Why do the Fungi attack the mushroom patches?

Basically, I think there is too much going on, which makes the map feel cluttered and confusing.

I have to admit that while the thematic appeal of this map doesn't do much to float my goat - but having said that, you do have obvious talent ;-)

There are elements of the map that I think are exemplary - for example, the Evil Mine looks fantastic (despite not correlating to the icon on the legend).

My only concern is that your obvious ability is in risk of being overshadowed by complexity :?
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PB: 2661 | He's blue... If he were green he would die | No mod would be stupid enough to do that
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