Germany Revamp Competition - FINAL VOTE (page one)

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Which map would you like to see as CC's Germany Map?

Poll ended at Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:40 pm

Map F
89
37%
Map I
153
63%
 
Total votes : 242

Germany Revamp Competition

Postby MrBenn on Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:31 pm

Revamp Competition
While the Foundry is having some down-time, it seems like a good time to be running a Revamp Competition!

The subject of the map in question has been a bit of "Heiße Kartoffel". Since the current Germany Revamp went live, legitimate concerns about visibility and legibility of some areas have been raised. Despite a lot of backlash from the CC community, the foundry gave its full support to the revamp on the assumption that amendments would be forthcoming. While there has been some discussion about the required adjustments, pepperonibread has gone into hiding, without submitting any further updates. Ordinarily, a crack commando unit of cartographers would be scrambled to make necessary changes, but without access to the source files there are too many amendments to adjust the map behind the scenes with ease.

With this in mind, the Foundry Team is proposing an open Graphics-only revamp of the existing Germany Map, in order to get it released from Beta as soon as possible.

Competition Rules:
  1. It is the mapmaker's responsibility to understand and comply with Foundry standards regarding image size, use of copyright-free images, leaving required space for army counts, etc. Maps not meeting Foundry standards and/or raising any copyright concerns may be withheld/removed from the competition.
  2. The competition is for a graphical revamp only: territory names and border connections must be unchanged from the current live version of the Germany Map.
  3. The general layout should be as close to the current map as possible; the idea is to make the transition between maps as easy as possible this time around, and in an ideal world we would want to keep the XML (technical description of the map) unchanged - although some flexibility will be allowed where necessary.
  4. In order to maintain anonymity, please refrain from posting your map publicly. Obtaining feedback and opinions on your entry is not forbidden, but patterns of irregular voting (ie block-clan votes) will be investigated.
  5. Collaborations are not forbidden, although only one person can be responsible for copyright ownership, and only one mapmaking medal will be awarded to the winning entry (pepperonibread will also be awarded a medal for revamping the territory/region configuration).
  6. Host your map file (one entry per contestant please) using Photobucket or some other file sharing program, and a link must be provided to MrBenn by 11:59pm GMT on December 27th, 2009. Late submissions will not be considered for entry.
  7. Submissions should be Final Forge standard, and will be shortlisted by the CAs if necessary, before a one-week voting period to determine the winner.
  8. Once the winner has been chosen, there will be a short period of polishing/checking before the winning submission will replace the Germany Map in Beta.
Recharge your glasses, and join me with three cheers for the Germany Revamp Competition!

Hip Hip Hooray!

Now is the winter of our discontent made glorious summer...

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Small Image: http://maps.conquerclub.com/Germany_2.S.jpg
Large Image: http://maps.conquerclub.com/Germany_2.L.jpg
XML: http://maps.conquerclub.com/Germany_2.xml
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Re: Christmas Revamp - Foundry Style!

Postby RjBeals on Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:37 pm

MrBenn wrote:The general layout should be as close to the current map as possible; the idea is to make the transition between maps as easy as possible this time around, and in an ideal world we would want to keep the XML (technical description of the map) unchanged - although some flexibility will be allowed where necessary.


to be sure, this means to match the layout of pepperoibreads "germany 2" map - correct?
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Re: Christmas Revamp - Foundry Style!

Postby Bruceswar on Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:02 pm

RjBeals wrote:
MrBenn wrote:The general layout should be as close to the current map as possible; the idea is to make the transition between maps as easy as possible this time around, and in an ideal world we would want to keep the XML (technical description of the map) unchanged - although some flexibility will be allowed where necessary.


to be sure, this means to match the layout of pepperoibreads "germany 2" map - correct?



Negative... the first map is what I would assume. You would also save yourself lots of grief!
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Re: Christmas Revamp - Foundry Style!

Postby the.killing.44 on Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:12 pm

Bruceswar wrote:
RjBeals wrote:
MrBenn wrote:The general layout should be as close to the current map as possible; the idea is to make the transition between maps as easy as possible this time around, and in an ideal world we would want to keep the XML (technical description of the map) unchanged - although some flexibility will be allowed where necessary.


to be sure, this means to match the layout of pepperoibreads "germany 2" map - correct?



Negative... the first map is what I would assume. You would also save yourself lots of grief!

"Current" = pep's
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Re: Christmas Revamp - Foundry Style!

Postby porkenbeans on Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:06 pm

I already stared mine off the first map. Guess I will have to put it on the back burner, until we get clarification on this.
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Re: Christmas Revamp - Foundry Style!

Postby Tisha on Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:40 pm

the.killing.44 wrote:
RjBeals wrote:ohhh another revamp ;) thats my specialty. nice work Benn and staff.. It's been fun poking around here the past few days!

Uh-oh.

makes me wonder if RjBeals is gonna try... :-k
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Re: Christmas Revamp - Foundry Style!

Postby RjBeals on Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:16 pm

i dunno - this original is so horrible. And the borders just are not right.

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Re: Christmas Revamp - Foundry Style!

Postby the.killing.44 on Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:17 pm

Yeah, it's definitely off pep's. You can have your opinion on graphics, but the geographical accuracy isn't really debatable.
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Re: Christmas Revamp - Foundry Style!

Postby MrBenn on Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:27 am

RjBeals wrote:
MrBenn wrote:The general layout should be as close to the current map as possible; the idea is to make the transition between maps as easy as possible this time around, and in an ideal world we would want to keep the XML (technical description of the map) unchanged - although some flexibility will be allowed where necessary.


to be sure, this means to match the layout of pepperoibreads "germany 2" map - correct?

Correct.
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Re: Christmas Revamp - Foundry Style!

Postby Bruceswar on Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:56 am

sigh... and here I though the foundry was gonna make Germany good again... People played the old map... nobody plays the new one. stats do not lie... Yeah yeah the graphics and "correctness" might be shit, but it played out fairly well. Same could be said about France, yet people play it quite often. But hey I thought a revamp was to make the graphics better, not switch places around. This was one of the main things that brought out the rage in people. I would have hoped the foundry learned a lesson or 2 after all these revamps.

Edited to add at either rate anything should be better than what we have out now.
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Re: Christmas Revamp - Foundry Style!

Postby Incandenza on Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:01 am

Bruceswar wrote:sigh... and here I though the foundry was gonna make Germany good again... People played the old map... nobody plays the new one. stats do not lie... Yeah yeah the graphics and "correctness" might be shit, but it played out fairly well. Same could be said about France, yet people play it quite often. But hey I thought a revamp was to make the graphics better, not switch places around. This was one of the main things that brought out the rage in people. I would have hoped the foundry learned a lesson or 2 after all these revamps.

Edited to add at either rate anything should be better than what we have out now.


Dunno how many times it has to be said, the gameplay has not changed one iota.
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Re: Christmas Revamp - Foundry Style!

Postby samuelc812 on Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:17 am

Incandenza wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:sigh... and here I though the foundry was gonna make Germany good again... People played the old map... nobody plays the new one. stats do not lie... Yeah yeah the graphics and "correctness" might be shit, but it played out fairly well. Same could be said about France, yet people play it quite often. But hey I thought a revamp was to make the graphics better, not switch places around. This was one of the main things that brought out the rage in people. I would have hoped the foundry learned a lesson or 2 after all these revamps.

Edited to add at either rate anything should be better than what we have out now.


Dunno how many times it has to be said, the gameplay has not changed one iota.


Very true, borders and names were changed with the new Germany, but the gameplay connections are still the same ;)

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Re: Christmas Revamp - Foundry Style!

Postby MrBenn on Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:24 am

As others have said, the gameplay of the map has never changed - although the switching around of territory names may have given that illusion when the current revamped version went live.

Switching the layout around again would only cause more fuss: The current layout is far more accurate than the old version, and keeping the general layout and territory names unchanged for this revamp will ensure continuity and be better for people with games in progress.
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Re: Christmas Revamp - Foundry Style!

Postby danryan on Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:26 am

I'll vote the new map as well. With graphical tweaks it could be a classic. It is a good size and the connections all work. Just needs tlc on the graphical front. Really please to hear this will happen. =D>
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Re: Christmas Revamp - Foundry Style!

Postby natty dread on Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:28 am

Just needs tlc on the graphical front.


Needs thin layer chromatography?

:mrgreen:
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Re: Christmas Revamp - Foundry Style!

Postby RjBeals on Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:31 pm

just curious why Germany is being revamped again? Why not Africa or something that needs it more?
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Re: Christmas Revamp - Foundry Style!

Postby WidowMakers on Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:38 pm

Just one ? (or maybe 2)
With the revamp, we are supposed to try and keep the same dimensions AND XML coordinate locations/names right?
SO all maps should have the same size and tert location just a different look in the same area.

What if a map looks great but one map needs to modify 50% of the XML coordinates and another looks OK but does not need to modify any?
How much is too much?
Because since right now it is subjective, I can justify modifying 25% modification where others might only justify 3%.

RjBeals wrote:just curious why Germany is being revamped again? Why not Africa or something that needs it more?

I believe that the public did not like the map at all and it is being revisited since pep is n longer around.
I do find it interesting that we are revamping it yet again due to initial public dislike.
Canada, Circus Max and British Isle were also hated initially but they were not revamped a second time.

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Re: Christmas Revamp - Foundry Style!

Postby cairnswk on Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:28 pm

^^ WM...I think you should just do it ^^ :) ...with German Flavour of course.
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Re: Christmas Revamp - Foundry Style!

Postby RjBeals on Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:50 pm

sounds like a challenge wid....
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Re: Christmas Revamp - Foundry Style!

Postby WidowMakers on Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:09 pm

I have not decided if I am going to do it or not. But I want to know how loose the XML will be. Can I move 3 XML coordinates, 5, 20?
It is just really vague that is all.

I don't want to make a map that uses the XML 100% and cripple my map because someone else redid 50% of it and that enabled more free graphics.

Just asking.
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Re: Christmas Revamp - Foundry Style!

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:45 pm

WidowMakers wrote:I believe that the public did not like the map at all and it is being revisited since pep is n longer around.
I do find it interesting that we are revamping it yet again due to initial public dislike.
Canada, Circus Max and British Isle were also hated initially but they were not revamped a second time.

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Re: Christmas Revamp - Foundry Style!

Postby RjBeals on Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:46 pm

i can't imagine the xml has to remain in tact. That would be insanely stupid. I think the territs and borders have to remain the same, and thats about it. But I guess Benn will have to make that official call.
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Re: Christmas Revamp - Foundry Style!

Postby thenobodies80 on Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:48 pm

WidowMakers wrote:
RjBeals wrote:just curious why Germany is being revamped again? Why not Africa or something that needs it more?

I believe that the public did not like the map at all and it is being revisited since pep is n longer around.
I do find it interesting that we are revamping it yet again due to initial public dislike.
Canada, Circus Max and British Isle were also hated initially but they were not revamped a second time.

WM


Not due to initial dislike, but because of reasonable concerns were raised and that must be solved.
For example:
MrBenn wrote:The issue of visibility and legibility are important. As far as I can tell, the amendments that are now being mooted are:
1. Some form of circles/patches to assist reading of army numbers
2. Slight alteration of region colours
3. Possible change of typeface to assist legibility

And yes, pep didn't seem to be around here for a while now.

WidowMakers wrote:Just one ? (or maybe 2)
With the revamp, we are supposed to try and keep the same dimensions AND XML coordinate locations/names right?
SO all maps should have the same size and tert location just a different look in the same area.

What if a map looks great but one map needs to modify 50% of the XML coordinates and another looks OK but does not need to modify any?
How much is too much?
Because since right now it is subjective, I can justify modifying 25% modification where others might only justify 3%.


The revamp is Graphics-only, it means you should try to redraw the map keeping the layout as close to the current as possible.
Give you a percentage doesn't make sense to me and force you to waste time on the numbers and not given to you the freedom to vent to your artistic skill. ;)
I'd like to think that the best way is to try to make changes on xml only if necessary (using the same example above: if you will add circles and some of them can't fit the current layout).

I hope I've been of some help :)
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Re: Christmas Revamp - Foundry Style!

Postby MrBenn on Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:23 am

As nobodies said, setting percentage limits doesn't really make a lot of sense...

The idea is to keep the shape and layout as similar as possible. This restriction is there to ensure ease of transition for players - so there shouldn't be any need for wholesale revisions or massive distortions. The flexibility is there in order to ensure that creativity, clarity and legibility don't need to be sacrificed.

I should add that submissions will require a large and small image.
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Re: Christmas Revamp - Foundry Style!

Postby RjBeals on Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:43 am

MrBenn wrote:I should add that submissions will require a large and small image.


Seriously?

(edit) That seems like too much work. I think that 1 map, either large or small, should be an entry. I mean thats a lot of work for someone, where chances are the map may not even make it. I say 1 map, and if that person wins, a new thread is created for tweeks, then the alt size can be created.
Last edited by RjBeals on Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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