Macedonia map [Gp, Gr, X, BETA, Qnchd.]

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Macedonia map [Gp, Gr, X, BETA, Qnchd.]

Postby n.n. on Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:38 pm

Image ImageImageImage
Image

Info:
Map name: Macedonia
(Based on municipalities/towns in Republic of Macedonia)
Territory count (player-starting terts): 42 (42)
Continents: 9
Special things: Special bonus for holding all territories with lakes

Latest Version, BETA, Large v2.2 (19.06.2010):
Image

Latest Version, BETA, Small, v2.2 (19.06.2010):
Image

XML for v2.2 and BETA, 22.06.2010:
http://www.hsm.com.mk/hsm1/nntemp/mk_v2.2.xml

Version 2.2 post:
viewtopic.php?f=468&t=103703&p=2647444#p2647444

XML tests with army numbers here:
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=103703&start=210#p2652880

"Middle", Gp Stamp Version v1.5(Large), 21.02.2010:
Image

First Version v 1.0(Large):
Image

Any suggestions are welcome!
Last edited by n.n. on Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:23 am, edited 21 times in total.
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:46 pm

You have quite a few 4-way corners. You'll want to get rid of those; it tends to make it unclear which territories can attack which.
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby Pandemonium on Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:56 pm

Great!
Finally a map of my country,
I would love to play it :)

The Municipalities are pretty correct, I'd give it a go.
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby skeletonboy on Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:53 pm

I like this, maybe add border countries faintly round the edge. Another thing is that in my opinion there are too many continants for the number of teritories. Otherwise, good start.
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby n.n. on Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:06 pm

@Evil DIMwit: i will correct this, you are right of course.

@skeletonboy: sorry, pls help me understand what do you mean by "add border countries faintly round the edge" ? Do you mean that the border lines should be rounder rather than broken like they are now or?
Last edited by n.n. on Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby cairnswk on Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:44 pm

n.n....
nice clean start, let's see where you can take this.
one small thing, the lakes show 3 lakes, but four districts are listed, perhaps a small dotted line or something similar to dividie up the large lake so it's clear it covers 2 territories. :)
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby captainwalrus on Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:19 pm

I like the graphics style. It is very original
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby n.n. on Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:32 pm

@cairnswk: you too are right, i will add the dotted line across the lake

@captainwalrus: thank you very much!
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby lgoasklucyl on Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:35 pm

Great first draft!

The only problem I see is the amount of methods to cross the river. Typically, including geographical locations such as rivers/mountains is to create an inpassable border. Thus far, every territ bordering the river can cross it. Consider dropping a bridge or adding a territory or two.

Otherwise, looking good thus far!
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby n.n. on Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:08 am

@lgoasklucyl: again, right! I agree and i have removed one bridge - do you think it is enough? (also, its like third or fourth version of the map, i was making some territorial changes with a help of a couple of macedonian conquer friends to make the map more accurate and consistent with inner municipal borders before posting here but anyway - thanks !)

I have implemented much of the suggestions right away (agreed with almost all of them) and also added a few labels and come up with this new version (better than the previous one i think):

Image
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby skeletonboy on Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:14 am

n.n. wrote:@skeletonboy: sorry, pls help me understand what do you mean by "add border countries faintly round the edge" ? Do you mean that the border lines should be rounder rather than broken like they are now or?


For example

Image

And also you could add a bonus for holding capitals, eg 1 army for 3 capitals, 2 for 5 etc
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby n.n. on Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:17 am

Thank you skeletonboy, i understand now what you meant and i am definitely adding the neighbor countries borders, that puts the country in a political/geographical context.

I have given much thought to the idea of adding bonuses for holding capitals, that was the original idea too, but i was i afraid that would also lead to more complicated gameplay.
Right now i am thinking about adding not "1 armies for 3 capitals, 2 for 5 etc." rule but rather the "X armies for holding any Y capitals" rule - it would be less complicated i think. Don't have idea what numbers X and Y should be though.
Another similar idea is to include the "X armies for holding Skopje + Y other capitals" rule instead, Skopje being the capital of the country.

Thoughts on this one (armies for capitals / gameplay implications, X=?, Y=?) ?
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:08 am

n.n. wrote:Thank you skeletonboy, i understand now what you meant and i am definitely adding the neighbor countries borders, that puts the country in a political/geographical context.

I have given much thought to the idea of adding bonuses for holding capitals, that was the original idea too, but i was i afraid that would also lead to more complicated gameplay.
Right now i am thinking about adding not "1 armies for 3 capitals, 2 for 5 etc." rule but rather the "X armies for holding any Y capitals" rule - it would be less complicated i think. Don't have idea what numbers X and Y should be though.
Another similar idea is to include the "X armies for holding Skopje + Y other capitals" rule instead, Skopje being the capital of the country.

Thoughts on this one (armies for capitals / gameplay implications, X=?, Y=?) ?


To start with, good first draft!

As for Skopje, you could have it set for +x auto deploy as well. Bonuses for holding x amount of capitals wouldn't necessarily make it more complicated, it just adds a little more strategy I think. On my Fractured America map that is what I did. Now I have 14 capitals and they are spread out over the map so no one will get hold them all at the beginning of the game. As for x armies for holding Skopje and y capitals would also work very well. Looking at your map I'm leaning towards the latter, hold the capital and x capitals to receive y troops. It would very well for this map.

I like the idea of the countries surrounding with the directional arrows, it makes the map different and unique. I don't think you would have to physically put the surrounding countries it. I say leave those directional arrows there.

That's all I have for now, keep up the good work!!
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:08 pm

Ah, much better. Now we can start the analysis.

isaiah40 wrote:As for Skopje, you could have it set for +x auto deploy as well. Bonuses for holding x amount of capitals wouldn't necessarily make it more complicated, it just adds a little more strategy I think.

This map is too small and there are too many capitals to put auto-deploy on every one. Almost a quarter of the territories are capitals -- that gameplay element would take over the map. In any case, capital auto-deploys are far too common nowadays.
As for x armies for holding Skopje and y capitals would also work very well. Looking at your map I'm leaning towards the latter, hold the capital and x capitals to receive y troops. It would very well for this map.

Another idea: x armies for y capitals with Skopje counting as 3 or 4. Skopje becomes important without being too dominant. In that case you'd probably want to start Skopje as neutral.
Well, if you ask me this map has plenty going for it gameplay-wise without anything special about the capitals.

skeletonboy wrote:I like this, maybe add border countries faintly round the edge.

That might be a little awkward to pull off well and keep the drop-shadow, which I like quite a bit. Random idea: represent the other countries entirely in shadow and just have the map pop above that, as it does now.
Either way you can keep the arrows.

That's about all the analysis I have time for now but I'll be back with more comments. I quite like this map.
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:15 pm

Evil DIMwit wrote:Ah, much better. Now we can start the analysis.

isaiah40 wrote:As for Skopje, you could have it set for +x auto deploy as well. Bonuses for holding x amount of capitals wouldn't necessarily make it more complicated, it just adds a little more strategy I think.


This map is too small and there are too many capitals to put auto-deploy on every one. Almost a quarter of the territories are capitals -- that gameplay element would take over the map. In any case, capital auto-deploys are far too common nowadays.


Let me rephrase here. You could put an auto deploy of x armies on Skopje only, not on every capital, OR you could go the way of x armies for holding y capitals. NOT both.
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby skeletonboy on Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:49 pm

Evil DIMwit wrote:Random idea: represent the other countries entirely in shadow and just have the map pop above that, as it does now.
Either way you can keep the arrows.


This would work, i think it would create a good effect.

Another point is that the Stip/Strumica/Bitola colours are very similar. You might want to tone up the colours so the colour differance is a bit more noticable.
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:07 pm

isaiah40 wrote:
Evil DIMwit wrote:Ah, much better. Now we can start the analysis.

isaiah40 wrote:As for Skopje, you could have it set for +x auto deploy as well. Bonuses for holding x amount of capitals wouldn't necessarily make it more complicated, it just adds a little more strategy I think.


This map is too small and there are too many capitals to put auto-deploy on every one. Almost a quarter of the territories are capitals -- that gameplay element would take over the map. In any case, capital auto-deploys are far too common nowadays.


Let me rephrase here. You could put an auto deploy of x armies on Skopje only, not on every capital, OR you could go the way of x armies for holding y capitals. NOT both.


Ah, I see. Well, my thoughts on auto-deploys still stand: at this point, you need a more compelling reason for auto-deploy than "it's the capital."
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:21 pm

Evil DIMwit wrote:Ah, I see. Well, my thoughts on auto-deploys still stand: at this point, you need a more compelling reason for auto-deploy than "it's the capital."


True, just an idea I threw out there that's all.
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby kristijan_mk on Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:54 am

excellent job n.n.
geography is correct. Vardar river actually starts from Gostivar, but it looks better this way on the map.

besides being a capital, there is no gameplay reason for Skopje to receive autodeploy. If we go on another type of bonus I'm for holding capitals, but not starting from 3 or 4 but for example

-for holding 7 capitals - 4
-for holding 8 capitals - 5
-for holding all capitals - 7

anyway the map will be fun to play even without that bonus. And not only for Macedoninas :)
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby skeletonboy on Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:34 pm

I think you should make the borders curved a bit, at the moment its a bit too sharp. You could just round the corners slightly.
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby fumandomuerte on Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:12 pm

Mmm I don't like the idea of a 3 territories region (Skopje) granting a +4 bonus. What if all your capitals start neutral (so nobody gets drop advantage since it's a small map) and you give bonus like:
3 capitals = +1
5 capitals = +3
7 capitals = +5
9 capitals = +7
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby skeletonboy on Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:16 pm

I agree that the bonuses are badly distributed, since theres an 8 teritory continant that has a 6 bonus and a 3 terit cont with a 4 bonus.
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby n.n. on Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:34 pm

Hi all,
here's the latest map image i made:

Image

I am very open for all continent bonuses suggestions so please do help me with that, but please suggest bonuses for every continent!

The Skopje continent actually has 4 territories (Skopje, Crna Gora, Studenicani, Petrovec) - is it not clear?
If it is not clear enough please suggest how to make it clearer - maybe add thin black border lines on the edge of the river?

Also, i am very much leaning towards no special bonuses for holding capitals and also no auto-deploy, i guess i am a bit old school but i like things as clean and as simple as they can be and i would really like to have that with this map and its gameplay.

Please keep supporting the development of this map with comments and suggestions !
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby fumandomuerte on Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:56 pm

n.n. wrote:The Skopje continent actually has 4 territories (Skopje, Crna Gora, Studenicani, Petrovec) - is it not clear?
If it is not clear enough please suggest how to make it clearer - maybe add thin black border lines on the edge of the river?

You're right, it's very clear that there are 4 territories within that region.

n.n. wrote:Also, i am very much leaning towards no special bonuses for holding capitals and also no auto-deploy, i guess i am a bit old school but i like things as clean and as simple as they can be and i would really like to have that with this map and its gameplay.

Other than the fon size, don't give too much graphic importance to capitals (remove black squares for example).

Here are my bonuses suggestions:
Skopje +3
Bitola +5 (if you take Kavadarci you reduce your bordering terits. From 4 to 3)
Veles +3
Tetovo +2
Ohrid +3
Kumanovo +2
Stip +4
Berovo +1/+2
Strumica +4
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby skeletonboy on Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:01 pm

Berovo and Tetovo should have the same bonus as they both have 3 terits and 2 borders

EDIT:you should update the first post with the most recent image and update the title with the version number
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