Hungary in 16th century

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Hungary in 16th century

Postby usamatnt on Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:08 am

Hello

to start with, im a complete noob at scripting and making maps, but i'll try
i dont know if this idea has been proposed before , but i want to make a map of 16th century hungary with her neighbours
i didnt start making the map but heres the real map with no regions

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i'd greatly appreciate help and tips
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby natty dread on Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:06 am

I think it could make a nice map. Do you have any experience in graphics sofware, such as photoshop or similar?

That's basically all you need to make a map... a good idea and graphics.

Also, there's already an austro-hungarian empire map in the bin... I'm not sure if nobodies means to finish it, but you could look into it for inspiration: viewtopic.php?f=242&t=91896

Make a draft with all the territories, bonus areas, legend etc. and I can give you more advice.
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby usamatnt on Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:12 am

natty_dread wrote:I think it could make a nice map. Do you have any experience in graphics sofware, such as photoshop or similar?

That's basically all you need to make a map... a good idea and graphics.

Also, there's already an austro-hungarian empire map in the bin... I'm not sure if nobodies means to finish it, but you could look into it for inspiration: viewtopic.php?f=242&t=91896

Make a draft with all the territories, bonus areas, legend etc. and I can give you more advice.

thanks
i tried to use gimp once to make a map of bulgaria and i failed miserably -.-

i know some basics of scripting , what im not good at is writing the region names , make the circles with numbers in them and making borders
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby natty dread on Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:58 am

Forget scripting, you don't need that stuff for mapmaking.

You only need to draw the image. If you have trouble using graphics software, you could try getting some graphical artist interested in your project.
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby usamatnt on Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:01 am

natty_dread wrote:Forget scripting, you don't need that stuff for mapmaking.

You only need to draw the image. If you have trouble using graphics software, you could try getting some graphical artist interested in your project.


ya, a friend of mine called kaapo will help me to draw

but now what worries me the most is , how am i going to script ? i mean, i looked at someone's map script and i was shocked at how long and complicated it is :?
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby natty dread on Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:20 am

Don't worry about that. There are tools for making the XML. You don't even need to do it yourself, there are plenty of people willing to help with the XML if your map makes it to final forge.

Forget the XML for now. Concentrate on making the map first.
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby MarshalNey on Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:31 am

Graphics concerns aside, did you have any ideas for the map gameplay?

It says on your profile that your interests are history (good choice!). Did you choose the 16th century with something in mind?

Off the top of my head, I know that towards the end of the century the Autro-Hungarians were suffering from a host of political and military troubles- the rise of the Estates legislatures, dynastic feuds between the Archdukes, a botched war with the Turks that ended in a stalemate. Oh, and of course clashes with the Protestant majority among the nobles in Bohemia and Upper Austria that presaged the horror of the Thirty Years' War in the Holy Roman Empire.

Any one of these might lend a theme to the map (the feud between Archdukes Rudolph, Matthias and Ferdinand jumps out at me for some reason).

Incidentally, is there any intention of including as an 'outside' territory the Holy Roman Empire, as it was nominally the Hapsburg stomping grounds? Or is this map concened more with Hungary proper, and not the ambitions of their fellow Austrians?
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby usamatnt on Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:50 am

MarshalNey wrote:Graphics concerns aside, did you have any ideas for the map gameplay?

It says on your profile that your interests are history (good choice!). Did you choose the 16th century with something in mind?

Off the top of my head, I know that towards the end of the century the Autro-Hungarians were suffering from a host of political and military troubles- the rise of the Estates legislatures, dynastic feuds between the Archdukes, a botched war with the Turks that ended in a stalemate. Oh, and of course clashes with the Protestant majority among the nobles in Bohemia and Upper Austria that presaged the horror of the Thirty Years' War in the Holy Roman Empire.

Any one of these might lend a theme to the map (the feud between Archdukes Rudolph, Matthias and Ferdinand jumps out at me for some reason).

Incidentally, is there any intention of including as an 'outside' territory the Holy Roman Empire, as it was nominally the Hapsburg stomping grounds? Or is this map concened more with Hungary proper, and not the ambitions of their fellow Austrians?


ya, i like history and austro-hungary is my favourite, but since theres a map already i decided to make one about the ottoman-austrian clash in hungary
hungary was devastated cause of the continuoes attacks by habsburgs and ottomans and hungar revoloutionaries

well i didnt think about adding the protestant-catholic clash , i want the map to be focused on hungary
for example, holding transylvania , wallachia and moldavia gives you a bonus for holding romania
while holding royal hungary , ottoman hungary and transylvania gives you a bonus for holding hungary
and probably another bonus if you hold all of austrian empire ( royal hungary , bohemia , austria and transylvania ) and a bonus for holding ottoman empire ( ottomans , ottoman hungary , transylvania , moldavia and wallachia )
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:29 am

Well, if you're going to go for Hungary, I'd suggest picking a more proud time in Hungary's history... The Hungarian Ottoman Wars would be prime.

But since you're keen on Austria, perhaps you could do an Austria/Ottoman wars map and throw Hungary somewhere in the middle, but keep the focus on Austria and the Ottomans.

I love historical maps, so I'm looking forward to what you produce.
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby usamatnt on Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:52 am

Industrial Helix wrote:Well, if you're going to go for Hungary, I'd suggest picking a more proud time in Hungary's history... The Hungarian Ottoman Wars would be prime.

But since you're keen on Austria, perhaps you could do an Austria/Ottoman wars map and throw Hungary somewhere in the middle, but keep the focus on Austria and the Ottomans.

I love historical maps, so I'm looking forward to what you produce.


well .... i'd love to but im a begginer and im terrible at drawing

also guys , i dont think this map will work cause when its resized it looks .... weird , so now i might have to use a new map
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:43 pm

Heh, there's no drawing involved... making a map is, more or less, glorified tracing. How familiar are you with whatever graphics program you're using?
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby usamatnt on Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:55 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:Heh, there's no drawing involved... making a map is, more or less, glorified tracing. How familiar are you with whatever graphics program you're using?

im using paint.net and its too complicated .... i dont know what to do next ...
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:56 pm

More interesting may be the Ottoman-Hungary/other European states conflict that involved the Ottomans extending control of their empire well into the middle of Europe.


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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:26 pm

usamatnt wrote:
Industrial Helix wrote:Heh, there's no drawing involved... making a map is, more or less, glorified tracing. How familiar are you with whatever graphics program you're using?

im using paint.net and its too complicated .... i dont know what to do next ...


Start talking to people who use it... I'm using photoshop so I'm not a whole lot of help, sorry. Natty uses Paint.net and does a reasonably good job, ask him for help?

As far as I know, most graphics programs operate on layers. Do you know what I mean by layers? Cause once you get that, then you're well on your way.
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby natty dread on Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:49 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:Natty uses Paint.net and does a reasonably good job


Only reasonably? :cry:

;)

...anyway. The key for working with Paint.net, as I have advised anyone using it, is getting the right plugins.

The most important (the ones I use most) of them being these two:

Plugin pack containing selection bevel, object outline, horiz./vert. flip
http://paintdotnet.forumer.com/viewtopi ... 16&t=22819

Drop shadow
http://paintdotnet.forumer.com/viewtopi ... 16&t=22881

And more can be found on the paint.net forums.

Then some general advice: use the layers to your advantage. Whenever you add anything to the map, create a new layer for it. Sometimes I even use multiple layers for the same object. This will pay off later on, whenever you need to change anything...
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby usamatnt on Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:20 pm

natty_dread wrote:
Industrial Helix wrote:Natty uses Paint.net and does a reasonably good job


Only reasonably? :cry:

;)

...anyway. The key for working with Paint.net, as I have advised anyone using it, is getting the right plugins.

The most important (the ones I use most) of them being these two:

Plugin pack containing selection bevel, object outline, horiz./vert. flip
http://paintdotnet.forumer.com/viewtopi ... 16&t=22819

Drop shadow
http://paintdotnet.forumer.com/viewtopi ... 16&t=22881

And more can be found on the paint.net forums.

Then some general advice: use the layers to your advantage. Whenever you add anything to the map, create a new layer for it. Sometimes I even use multiple layers for the same object. This will pay off later on, whenever you need to change anything...


easy, easy .... im just a begginer i dont even know whats the use of layers or how to use them :(
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby natty dread on Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:38 pm

Layers are basically how the image is built. They're just images stacked on top of each other. For example, you'll have the background on one layer, outlines on second layer, the land area on another layer, text on another layer... The background usually is fully opaque, the other layers are partially transparent. The layers together form the final image.

The opacity of the layers can be adjusted, so that you can have semi-transparent objects on the image, where background shows through... the army circles are usually made this way.
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby usamatnt on Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:45 pm

alright, i deleted some rivers and transformed them into borders , i believe the regions are still too big but this is all i could do right now , i will make more regions soon
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to be honest , i dont like what i see ... it still needs alot of improvements but i have no idea of what to do :? :(
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:40 pm

OK... I'll break this down as best I can. Natty hit the nail on the head when he described layers. Everything you do, borders, colors, rivers, ect are going to be in different layers.

The first thing to do is fix those rough borders.

Create a new layer and label it borders.
Zoom in to about %600.
Select the brush tool, black color and size 3 px.
Systematically trace over the borders. It doesn't have to be exact but close will do. You will ultimately be deleting your original image, so don't worry about it.

Once you've done that create a new layer and label it rivers.
Do the exact same as the above with a bluish color of your choice.
Trace over the rivers.

One of the big problems with this map, imo, is that the tri-colors of the empires contrast with each other too much. Make the Ottoman Empire various shades of red, make the Austrian's various shades of white, make Hungary shades of Green. (or colors of your choice). That way the regions have some sort of graphical unity.

Next, you're going to want to apply these colors...

Create a new Layer and label it Ottoman Hungary.
Get your brush tool and change the color to something like burgundy.
Increase the size of the brush to about 20.
Color in the regions that comprise Ottoman Hungary.
Shrink the brush to maybe a 5 px and get in the little nooks and crannies of the border.
When you're done you should have a much clearer map of Ottoman Hungary.

Repeat the above step for all your regions, including the sea. When you're done, you'll have a better looking map.

Since I've got a mac I can't get myself Paint.net... but since Natty does perhaps he can point out how to make a new layer and what the brush looks like, how to change size and color, ect.

Once you've done this, post it and we'll go from there.
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby natty dread on Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:21 pm

Well here's something I put up quick:

Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby usamatnt on Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:21 am

wow, thats alot of help , thank you i'll try to improve it but it seems like it will take alot of time
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby usamatnt on Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:07 am

i have a problem

i made the borders and saved the image so i can put it here , but i cant open it !! it says its not a valid win32 application , what can i do ?
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby natty dread on Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:22 am

usamatnt wrote:i have a problem

i made the borders and saved the image so i can put it here , but i cant open it !! it says its not a valid win32 application , what can i do ?


What format did you save the image in?

When you're editing the image, you work on the .pdn file. This is the layered image, and you need to keep one to keep working on the image. But when you want to publish the image, you need to save a copy that is non-layered. For this you need to save the image in .png format, this will merge all the layers into one and save the image in a format that can be viewed on web pages.

Then just host the .png file on imageshack, and keep the .pdn file for further editing.
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby usamatnt on Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:45 am

natty_dread wrote:
usamatnt wrote:i have a problem

i made the borders and saved the image so i can put it here , but i cant open it !! it says its not a valid win32 application , what can i do ?


What format did you save the image in?

When you're editing the image, you work on the .pdn file. This is the layered image, and you need to keep one to keep working on the image. But when you want to publish the image, you need to save a copy that is non-layered. For this you need to save the image in .png format, this will merge all the layers into one and save the image in a format that can be viewed on web pages.

Then just host the .png file on imageshack, and keep the .pdn file for further editing.

and how do i make it a png? :D

EDIT: sorry that was a retarded question, anyway i found out how to do it

Image

this is what happens when i zoom to 600% and put the brush on 3 ........... :o
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Re: Hungary in 16th century

Postby usamatnt on Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:45 am

ok heres a better one, this time i zoomed to 600 and made the brush 1

Image

still terrible -.-
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