Baltic Crusades

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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:38 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:Another thing, make sure your border layer is on top of your colors layer cause it looks like some of the colors are overlapping the border.


ou, I did not have border layer on the top of list of layers... so I will do it again.

Industrial Helix wrote:What exactly is your plan for giant ole Sweden? Cause If it's not there for gameplay I'd suggest ditching it and putting your legend there. Plus it looks way too big, but that might be me.


Sweden will be not in game. than yes delete it sounds good.

Industrial Helix wrote:Lastly, make sure that there are no area where the borders and the colors do not meet. I can see a thin line between the border and the Burgundy red color up there. It's present elsewhere so give you map a look over for things like that.


o.k. it is because I did bot have border layer on the top of layer list and the regional colours superimpose borders. so I did not want go too close...

Industrial Helix wrote:Otherwise, big improvement and nice work!


thanks.

about Photoshop and shape tool. what version of Photoshop you have? I have CS2 and there are only:
Rectangle Tool
Rounded Rectangle Tool
Elipse Tool
Polygon Tool
Line Tool
Custom Shape Tool
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby Industrial Helix on Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:45 pm

I'm running with cs2 and you have what I'm talking about. You want the Rectangle shape. Though you can make your own with a series of lines, which might work well for the minimap.

It sounds like you're about to redraw your border... just drag the layer on top of the color files don't redraw it. Also, you got to get right underneath the border with the color... the border should cover the division just fine. You might have to touch the borders up though with a little brush and eraser... make sure you're on the right layer!!!!

Also, I dunno if you're using mac or not, but ctrl+apple+mouse click key is great for identifying a layer... it's probably something like ctrl+alt or soemthing for windows though.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:42 am

is this what you mean? a
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:42 am

or this?
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby skeletonboy on Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:26 am

How big is the image? It looks bigger than the 800x840 pxl size restriction and if it is it's easier to resize it sooner rather than later.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:31 am

skeletonboy wrote:How big is the image? It looks bigger than the 800x840 pxl size restriction and if it is it's easier to resize it sooner rather than later.


it´s 840 x 800 pixels.

when we spoke about size, could has image size 800 x 840 pixels, too?
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby natty dread on Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:39 am

No, 840x800 is the maximum size. 800x840 is not allowed.

Another thing that you should keep in mind is, that the maximum size for the small image is 630x600. So you don't want to make any features of the map too small, because they need to be legible in the small version too. It helps to look at the map at 75% zoom once in a while, this way you'll see how things would look in the small version.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:58 am

They're right about the size... make sure this map is no bigger than 840x800 pixels... Go to Image -> Image size in the very top top menu. This will bring up a window with a whole lotta numbers.

Make sure all your numbers have the chain symbols, which means that your image remains in proportion. The Check box "Constrain Proportions" needs to be checked to get this.

In the "Document Size" area Resolution ought to be 72 pixels/inch. The Width 840 pixels (see the little menu just to the right of the numbers box). The height 800.

If you map doesn't meet these sizes or smaller, use the crop tool. It's the third tool down on the left column of your Left button menu if you can afford to lose the space. OR just change the numbers in the numbers box of the image size menu and let the "constrain proportions do the work.

-----

Alright,lets talk legends and keys. By the way, we're working with you're A image. Whatever you did to the B image made it save bad and it looks all pixelated. Image A is nice and clear.

You've initially chosen to go with a mini-map in the lower corner, which I think is a real bad idea for what you're trying to accomplish. The map has too many regions for a minimap to work. Plus, you're identifying them by their shields, further confusing the map needlessly. I favor taking a color code style key, of which you can see examples on Pearl Harbor, Third Crusade, Ireland, Africa, ect. This style works best for maps with many different regions.

Minimaps are better for maps with broad regions which can be labeled easily, Such as Greenland, Brazil, Great Lakes, ect. Imagine trying to do Europa, NYC or Chicago with a minimap... I'd be difficult because everything would be crowded. So let's roll with a Color Code style legend.

Right now, let's use the upper left legend. First make a folder over by your layers and Label it "Legend Text." Make sure the folder is highlight and then get the text tool and write out the first region. We'll start with Duchy of Estonia and make our way down. It's nice to have some sort of order int he legend and North to South works great. Make sure the text layer is in the proper folder.

Next we need to figure out how to identify the Duchy of Estonia. This is a Crusades map and you apparently like shields, so lets go with a shield shape. I hope you have the Estonian shield as a separate file, if not get it. Open it up as a new file in cs2 and get your magic wand tool out, 2nd tool down, right column, left side menu. Up top, beneath your file/edit/... menu are a few options: Tolerance helps to determine how picky the wand is going to be in selecting area, the higher the number the less picky it is. I usually keep it around 50. I also like to keep it the "use all layers" check box off. It helps to work with your layers better.

Anyway, select the area around the shield and then go to the Select menu -> Select inverse. You should have the shield selected. Go ahead and hit the delete so you've got the selection in the shape of the shield but not the shield. Go to your main map and click on your color pallet towards the bottom of the left side menu, click the foreground square and it will open the color pallet menu. Move off the menu and you'll get the eye dropper thing, click on the Duchy of Estonia and you'll have the color.

Now go back to your shield and use the paint bucket to make the sheild area the same color as the Duchy of Estonia. Once you've doen that, get your move tool (top right, side menu). and drag the shield from its window to the map window. It's probably too big, so resize it by going to Select -> Transform in the top menu. Make it a little smaller, about the height of you're Duchy of Estonia text in the legend. You can keep proportions by holding down the shift while you resize.

Once its in place, make a folder for it and all other items like it. Label it "Legend shields" and put the shield in the folder. You also should name your layer "Estonian Shield" as well. Now repeat the process for Bishopric of Osel and Wiet, then lithuania, ect.

Once that is done, you should have a nicely organized, clear and concise legend explaining what all the regions are and how much they will be worth (we'll get to that later).

Also, are you using a mac or windows?
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:42 pm

thanks natty for your tips


Industrial Helix wrote:Make sure all your numbers have the chain symbols, which means that your image remains in proportion. The Check box "Constrain Proportions" needs to be checked to get this.

In the "Document Size" area Resolution ought to be 72 pixels/inch. The Width 840 pixels (see the little menu just to the right of the numbers box). The height 800.


this map is 840 X 800 and I also look how it looks in size 630 x 600. the letters are small I must use bigger.

about proportions, you mean castles, bridges, trees? I think they are good...

-----

when we do not use small map, the area in the lower corner we can use for legend, too. or?

Industrial Helix wrote:Next we need to figure out how to identify the Duchy of Estonia. This is a Crusades map and you apparently like shields, so lets go with a shield shape. I hope you have the Estonian shield as a separate file, if not get it. Open it up as a new file in cs2 and get your magic wand tool out, 2nd tool down, right column, left side menu. Up top, beneath your file/edit/... menu are a few options: Tolerance helps to determine how picky the wand is going to be in selecting area, the higher the number the less picky it is. I usually keep it around 50. I also like to keep it the "use all layers" check box off. It helps to work with your layers better.

Anyway, select the area around the shield and then go to the Select menu -> Select inverse. You should have the shield selected. Go ahead and hit the delete so you've got the selection in the shape of the shield but not the shield. Go to your main map and click on your color pallet towards the bottom of the left side menu, click the foreground square and it will open the color pallet menu. Move off the menu and you'll get the eye dropper thing, click on the Duchy of Estonia and you'll have the color.

Now go back to your shield and use the paint bucket to make the sheild area the same color as the Duchy of Estonia. Once you've doen that, get your move tool (top right, side menu). and drag the shield from its window to the map window. It's probably too big, so resize it by going to Select -> Transform in the top menu. Make it a little smaller, about the height of you're Duchy of Estonia text in the legend. You can keep proportions by holding down the shift while you resize.

Once its in place, make a folder for it and all other items like it. Label it "Legend shields" and put the shield in the folder. You also should name your layer "Estonian Shield" as well. Now repeat the process for Bishopric of Osel and Wiet, then lithuania, ect.


but this will made Estonian shield only blue, yes? we could go only with colours or with colours and shiled (which needs much area, I´m afraid), I want show to people something from history of Europe. I will think how to do this...

Industrial Helix wrote:Once that is done, you should have a nicely organized, clear and concise legend explaining what all the regions are and how much they will be worth (we'll get to that later).


this is sound of future, but I could build game more on auto-deploy (to do castles realy important).
thanks for all your help and advices.

Industrial Helix wrote:Also, are you using a mac or windows?


I have windows.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:05 pm

Don't worry about the actual shields and their patterns. I'm brainstorming on how we're going to fit those in there and there are a couple of options. But the important thing is that by having to match the actual shield to the minimap and then to the key is too messy for a CC map. We'll put them in when we tackle some more of the graphics.

Regarding the proportions, I mean size relationships between the small and large maps or regions or what have you, not just the castles and the trees. When something is in proportion it means the smaller or larger version still the same general shape as the previous version... does that make sense? There are tools in cs2 that keep things in proportion when you resize them. This is especially important when you go to make your small map.

So yeah, just get the key up as I said and we'll put the actual shields in later.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:52 pm

more new things to learn? ah, than forgot actual shields :D

which one is better?
recoloured background of "legend" to land
Click image to enlarge.
image


water colour of background of "legend"
Click image to enlarge.
image


how can I move with any area? I want to move with shields and words in legend for better position. I try to lock layers which I want remove, lock all layers but nothing works me.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:17 pm

I just want to say how much more readable the legend is right now.

First off, if you want to move something use the Move tool, first one down right column of the left hand side menu. Now, righ beneath the File, Edit, Image,.. menu is a checkbox that says "auto select layer" make sure that is unchecked. Now if you hold down the control key you should get a arrow with a menu thing, chick on an object and it will give you a list of potential layers. Select the right one and go on and drag whatever it is you want to move around. Alternatively, select the layer form the right hand side listing of layers and then just click the object and drag it around.

In the mean time make a new folder for the various imapssables, passables, castles and houses that you intend to put on this map. Start adding them in there where they belong. Layer order is important, make sure the folder is above your colors.

Your next task should be to start labeling these territories. First off, make a new folder and make sure it is on top of all your other layers, put all your actual map text on there.

Next, start labeling away. But there are a few CC rule about labelling territories that you need to be aware of.
1) The words must fit in the territory!! They can't be sticking out all over the place. You may have to redraw some borders to make this happen.
2) All words must be readable. That means if you can prevent them from overlapping with a border then do so. If not, go back to your borders layer and cut a hole in it for the words to stick out. This might be something you have to do for Gotland.
3) Font must be readable. You did nice the first time, though its a little plain for my tastes. Find something that really says Baltic Crusades and not 1999 business memo. But make sure you can read it.
4) Use no more than 2 fonts. In your case, you should be alright with 1.

Once this is done, finish up the legend with what the castles and towns mean, what is impassable and what is pasable. If you run out of room, move these rules to the lowerright corner and box it in.

You can also tighten up your box around the legend by selecting the layer the box is in and using Control+T to transform the shape.

I'd suggest using the line tool (same one as the box tool, just click and hold) to separate each superbonus (like all the groupings that make up lithuania) from each other.

Once your'e done with that. We'll finish things up so that you have a nice skeleton of a map.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:00 am

what do you think? could it be as I did? than I will write names of regions there. I did not add trees yet, I think we can put them at the end when we will find game balance...
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:06 am

The font seems a little tight and hard to read.

What do you think of this font?

http://www.fonts.com/FindFonts/Detail.h ... COPE=Fonts

I think its prefect, but you might not like it. Take a look around online for some good crusades fonts or Baltic fonts. The font isn't going to be final at this point, but something that says Baltic Crusades and is readable will do fine. You can fine tune it later.

EDIT: just saw that they want $20 for that font... but something similar would do. I also found this:

http://www.simplythebest.net/fonts/font ... othic.html

which is simple yet has some baltic flair.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:16 am

I a little edit fonts, now they are more redable. yours are great! they looks a little as Old English... I used which I have in CS2.

the trees which I add to map are necessary I think. I have few questions:
1, I made new layer for trees and named it "trees". but every tree has own layer as "layer 65", "layer 66"... is this fine?
2, if we do castles auto-deploy and any of castle will be neutral from start will this neutral castle auto-deploy "neutral" units?
3, is possible to set that castles will auto-deploy +3, but when we mark 4 of them as "special (teutonic)" and player holds all 4 these will auto-deploy +4?
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image
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