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Conquer 4: Back in Development [Abandoned Again?]

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Postby yeti_c on Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:25 am

KEYOGI wrote:So what happens when we have:

XXXX
XX00
X0X0
X00X

Does it matter that there's three bonuses sharing the single space?


I think that It's on a set by set basis.

i.e. Set A and Set B share top left only... and Set B and Set C share top left only.

The fact that Set A B & C share the same space isn't compared or cared about!!

C.
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Postby yeti_c on Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:26 am

KEYOGI wrote:
yeti_c wrote:My only other point - Coming from a mathmatical point of view I would have A-G on the bottom and work up from 1-6 not down?

C.


Will do.


Cool (We can compare and poll which looks better - it won't affect the XML at all (except for co-ords - but I might need you to do those anyway!)

C.
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Postby reverend_kyle on Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:26 am

NO.
DANCING MUSTARD FOR POOP IN '08!
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Postby KEYOGI on Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:27 am

yeti_c wrote:I think that It's on a set by set basis.

i.e. Set A and Set B share top left only... and Set B and Set C share top left only.

The fact that Set A B & C share the same space isn't compared or cared about!!

C.


Right, yes I remember now. All this math at once is getting me confused.
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Postby KEYOGI on Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:28 am

reverend_kyle wrote:NO.


Care to elaborate?
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Postby Captain Crash on Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:40 am

KEYOGI wrote:
yeti_c wrote:I think that It's on a set by set basis.

i.e. Set A and Set B share top left only... and Set B and Set C share top left only.

The fact that Set A B & C share the same space isn't compared or cared about!!

C.


Right, yes I remember now. All this math at once is getting me confused.


I think you are getting there:

"4 spots in a row = a 'set' = +2" (Vertical, Horizontal or Diagonal)
"Any single set may only share 1 spot with any set...but may share that 1 spot with any number of different sets"

Combined with some judicious examples in the legend should make it easy to understand.

(But as mentioned previously: There will always be those who get confused...hey I might have a chance of winning a game! :D )

I like the idea of having the 4*4 block in the examples, as it shows what people will be striving to achieve.
Also isn't a single group with 16 'spots', i.e. 10 sets, having from 7 to 12 borders worth a hefty chunk of bonus (+20)?
Especially when you can create that 'continent', to use the traditional term, anywhere you like!

8)
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Postby ZawBanjito on Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:32 am

This map is making me drool. Death to those that oppose it.
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Postby Lone.prophet on Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:30 am

its an original idea though the XML will be hard to make
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Postby KEYOGI on Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:53 am

Okay, so I think we're nutting out the mechanics of how this will work and it all seems to gel together well enough IMO.

With an absolute minimum of 7 border spaces and a minimum of 9 opposing border spaces, I think the 4x4 block is justified in having +20 as a bonus. The majority of those border spaces can be attacked by three other spaces. It does seem high at first, but the more I think about it the more it seems right.

Any opinions on the actual look of the thing itself? As long as the spaces are set where they are the xml can be started on when yeti's up to the daunting task. Obviously I'll reword the bonus explanation and fix up the bonus guide, but anything else?

Also, is there any need for a large and small version of the map? I was originally working on a larger image, but the spaces were too big and it just looked all wrong. If anything, the bonus guide could be stretched but I'd rather leave the game board consistent.
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Postby yeti_c on Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:09 am

KEYOGI wrote:Also, is there any need for a large and small version of the map? I was originally working on a larger image, but the spaces were too big and it just looked all wrong. If anything, the bonus guide could be stretched but I'd rather leave the game board consistent.


Hmmm i like the idea of simply making the larger map an extension of the instructions?

So I reckon keep the game boards (which is pretty big anyway) the same size and perhaps add more examples of non bonus's or something!!?

C.

its an original idea though the XML will be hard to make


Bah - it shall be done tomorrow. The hardest part will be copying and pasting it all and ensuring I've got the combinations correct!!!

C.
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Postby WidowMakers on Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:15 am

The hardest part about XML is the coordinates. With this map, once you get the 1st one done and know the XY offset you just add that to each other territory. 15 minutes max to do the territory XML. However the Bonus is going to be the real issue. Not impossible just tedious. Good luck.

P.S. I think this would be a good map. I would play.
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Postby spinwizard on Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:16 am

go 4 it
:wink:
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Postby KEYOGI on Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:53 pm

Update - Feb 26

Image

Changes:
- Moved A-G labels from top to bottom
- Swapped order of 1-6 labels on side
- Reworded game description
- Fixed bonus guide, trying to make easier to understand
- Added names of myself and yeti_c onto board
- Just some light cosmetic changes made; font sizes, embossing, etc.
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Postby everywhere116 on Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:27 am

Looking at your key, it is redundant. There is no point in having it because you say that you get +2 for holding four in a row, and since there is no bonus for having groups of them together, it just makes the legend pointless.
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Postby KEYOGI on Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:47 am

I think it's justified. It is only a guide and I think it'll be handy as a quick visual reference.
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Postby Captain Crash on Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:16 am

KEYOGI wrote:I think it's justified. It is only a guide and I think it'll be handy as a quick visual reference.


I agree, different people need things explained/demonstrated in different ways.

8)
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Postby yeti_c on Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:25 am

Captain Crash wrote:
KEYOGI wrote:I think it's justified. It is only a guide and I think it'll be handy as a quick visual reference.


I agree, different people need things explained/demonstrated in different ways.

8)


I concur the legend is completely necessary...

XML will hopefully be done today - altho something unexpected has come up at work so busy today - but will defs be able to get most of it done!!

Update later...

C.
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Postby juventino on Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:59 am

People are usually dumb. I know. I work giving service to people and 99/100 are stupid.

So perhaps make it more obvious that they can only share one circle.

But perhaps it is clear enough as it is.
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Postby yeti_c on Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:51 am

yeti_c wrote:
Captain Crash wrote:
KEYOGI wrote:I think it's justified. It is only a guide and I think it'll be handy as a quick visual reference.


I agree, different people need things explained/demonstrated in different ways.

8)


I concur the legend is completely necessary...

XML will hopefully be done today - altho something unexpected has come up at work so busy today - but will defs be able to get most of it done!!

Update later...

C.


Initial draft done and working... now need to add the continents that remove bonus for 5 in a row and add for 7.
---------------
sully800 wrote:Actually this problem would be solved much more easily than the deck of cards map.

Let's say you want to make each 4 in a row +2 but it has to be unique beyond 1 piece (meaning 5 in a row wouldn't count as 2 seperate 4 in a rows, but 2 crossing diagonal 4 in a rows would count as 2). You'd simply have to write a +2 bonus for every 4 in a row and a -2 for every 5 in a row. You wouldn't even have to think about 6 in a row or higher because each additional peice adds a 4 in a row and a 5 in a row for no net gain. I'm pretty sure that's all correct anyway. Oh, and 7 in a row should count as 2 seperate 4 in a rows since each one would only share one piece. So You'd have to add +2 for 7 in a row.

So for the 7x6 board you have shown there would be

21 vertical connect 4s
24 horizontal connect 4s
24 diagonal connect 4s (both ways)
10 vertical connect5s
18 horizontal connect 5s
12 diagonal connect 5s
6 horizontal connect 7s

Once again, I'm pretty sure thats alright but if I made a mistake feel free to correct me. In total that would be 115 different continents you would need to include in the XML. A bit tedious sure, but you could do it with time. It's no where near the combinations you would need to make the deck of cards map work (though that map would be a bit more interesting as well).


Whilst coding this I've worked out that 7's do need a bonus...

I.e.

A1, A2, A3, A4, A5, A6, A7.

This gives Bonuses of

A1234, A2345, A3456, A4567

Minuses of

A12345, A23456, A34567,

Plus bonus of A1234567

You have to not have 6's in the code as they will be dealt with by 5's

i.e. A123456 gives...

A1234, A2345, A3456 +

A12345, A23456 -

With 6's in you'd then also get a minus of A123456 thus leaving you with 0 bonus.

C.
---------------
Bah - got bored at work and finished the xml off anyways!! Must get back to real work now!!

Keyogi - check your PM's so that I can send you a couple of images and the xml.

Cheers,

C.

PS Cleaned up initial 3 posts into 1 as it looked messy!!!
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Postby KEYOGI on Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:17 pm

Update - March 2

Image

Image

A big thanks to yeti_c for the xml. Some points for consideration:
- The numbers are centered, but the shadows may affect how accurate they look.
- I'm wanting to move the "Made by KEYOGI & yeti_c" text and do something else with it, but I want to make sure the rest of the image is ok.

So, any requests? Is the bonus system clear for everyone?
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Postby johloh on Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:21 pm

im having a lot of trouble seeing the colors of the army #s...im not sure why as they are on a white background...?
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Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:28 pm

I'd assume they are on a white background...because those holes are...indeed that...holes. Hm, but I'm really not such a big fan of the plain blue. Maybe it's the tone or the shade, but see if you can make a it a little more realistic looking. I'd also suggest a different color, but I don't think anything would look good with the red font (have you considered using CC's font also for the title?)


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Postby RjBeals on Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:34 pm

Colors of the numbers are hard to see because the jpg is compressed too much and the numbers "blend" together. I really like the map/board though. Great job.
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Postby Captain Crash on Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:44 pm

Likes: Just about everything.
The feel of a '3d' connect four 'board' is good.

I agree however that the colors of the numbers are hard to distinguish.

Andy's comment regarding the conquer club font for the title/name appeals.

I would like to see just 1 more example in the bonuses: That of '6 in a row' only giving +2. There is space for it immediately above the '7 in a row' +4 example.

As for the 'made by..' text, what do you not like about it?

8)
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Postby KEYOGI on Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:45 pm

I'll post another update shortly with different numbers. That is a poor quality pic.

I don't have any objections to changing the colour or font for the title and so on, I just went with the actual Connect 4 colours.
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