[GP/UI] Anti Fog Spoils

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[GP/UI] Anti Fog Spoils

Postby AAFitz on Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:11 pm

<DELETE ME>
Concise description:Further concised:
  • Make spoils clear fog for region.

Specifics:

Clear Fog spoils.

  • If you own the region on the spoil, you get to see that region for the rest of the game. It becomes permanently unfogged.

    Options
    • Clear fog Nobonus
    • Clear fog Flat Rate
    • Clear fog Escalating


    Eliminate the +2 bonus on flat rate, and escalating, and simply clear the fog for that region, for that player.

    Added: grifftron's Idea:

    for sunny games, Include Create Fog Spoils. Instead of adding +2 bonus, make the region fog. It may help or hurt of course, but will without a doubt make some interesting strategy options, especially in long games.


    This will improve the following aspects of the site:


    • Possibly an interesting spoils variation, albeit confined to fog games. The clear fog option, essentially creates a spy like function of the game, which in many, may very well decide the game. Knowing where a player is parked can be crucial in a fog game, and if you get lucky and find his stack, you can kill it, or realize its bad time to go for it.
      Also, the spoils will be in the log. You will often have to keep away from those spots with stacks, to keep them hidden, so it will most definitely change game play on both sides.

      Absolutely too boring alone however. It needs to be coupled along with Flat rate, and escalating as well. I think nuclear taught us this lesson. Nuclear is a great option, but its impact on games is very minimal usually. But nuclear + escalating flat, would be a completely different game.

So far this seems the simplest, clearest, and best option of any anti-fog options, but add more if you have them.
Last edited by spiesr on Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:05 pm, edited 7 times in total.
Reason: Added [GP/UI] tag for index
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Re: Anti Fog spoils.

Postby happy2seeyou on Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:28 pm

Interesting, I like it. =D>
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Re: Anti Fog spoils.

Postby yazoochick on Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:49 pm

What about games where no spoils is selected?
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Re: Anti Fog spoils.

Postby RiskTycoon on Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:50 am

yazoochick wrote:What about games where no spoils is selected?


then there would be no spoils and it would be just a basic fog game. I like the idea Fitz. pretty cool 8-)
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Re: Anti Fog spoils.

Postby ManBungalow on Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:25 pm

Good idea.
The only thing I don't like is the proposition of timed map-glances which favour those with faster internet connections. It's too easy to lag for 4 seconds or to take a screen-shot of the page at the right time.
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Re: Anti Fog spoils.

Postby darth emperor on Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:45 pm

ManBungalow wrote:Good idea.
The only thing I don't like is the proposition of timed map-glances which favour those with faster internet connections. It's too easy to lag for 4 seconds or to take a screen-shot of the page at the right time.

Exactly what i was thinking...so no need to say...or maybe it could fix like that so it would be a new type of fog ex.
you use this cards and you see that in tokyo green has 1 troop and it leaves like that...but the round goes on and yellow takes tokyo you would see that green has 1 but when you reach to any adjacent territory youll se the change of yellow...i mean its a record spoil...takes a snapshot of all the board without ? and changes the last ? for what was recorded and you wont see the changes till you are adyacent...not sure if i explained well

I like the first idea but what happens when you change the same territory for the second time?? would be a useless card?
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Re: Anti Fog spoils.

Postby fookeh on Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:58 pm

Rather than time, what about rounds?

r = 1 round
g = 2 rounds
b = 3 rounds
mixed = 4 rounds

Rounds meaning you can see the borders of the territory for the card you possess.

EDIT: The more I think about it - the more stupid it sounds (round concept)

I think this could be made into something effective and fun though (the original idea)
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Re: Anti Fog spoils.

Postby Qwert on Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:45 pm

How abouth Fog clean cards?
You have set of cards,and when you use,these territory its not anymore foggy(for you).
And these could be even more interesting,because your opponents dont know what you know,and also you dont know what your opponent discover..
Step by step,you clean map of fog.
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Re: Anti Fog spoils.

Postby AAFitz on Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:47 pm

ManBungalow wrote:Good idea.
The only thing I don't like is the proposition of timed map-glances which favour those with faster internet connections. It's too easy to lag for 4 seconds or to take a screen-shot of the page at the right time.


Completely agree, and it was just the first thing I thought of. More looking for ideas, that increment on the sets...or, go with the coupling of flat rate, escalating. I personally think nuclear should be teamed with those card options too, to really add some fun to the game.

But knowing an extra spot on the map or two, could be extremely helpful on some games.
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Re: Anti Fog spoils.

Postby AAFitz on Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:53 pm

qwert wrote:How abouth Fog clean cards?
You have set of cards,and when you use,these territory its not anymore foggy(for you).
And these could be even more interesting,because your opponents dont know what you know,and also you dont know what your opponent discover..
Step by step,you clean map of fog.


Technically they would know, because the cards you cash get listed. That was the first idea, and probably the easiest to program, and the one that would make the challenge more interesting.

Especially in bigger games where youre looking for that last guy, or where your target might be. One perfectly placed card, gives you some interesting intel, which would definitely change the game. Further, it wouldnt be confined to no cards, so the game would not have to be no cards to enjoy the variation.

Spoils:
Only available as option on Fog games:
No bonus no fog
Flat rate no fog
Escalating no fog

or Normal spoils:
no spoils
flat rate
escalating
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Re: Anti Fog spoils.

Postby Qwert on Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:23 pm

Technically they would know, because the cards you cash get listed. That was the first idea, and probably the easiest to program, and the one that would make the challenge more interesting.

but what if these also be hide?Do you though of these concept?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2010-03-03 22:23:45 - Qwert cashed in a group of ?,?, and ?,removing Fog from these territory
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

now this will be interesting Fog gameplay ;)
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Re: Anti Fog spoils.

Postby docidiot on Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:27 pm

of course, we already have (sort of) the reverse of this. as you turn in spoils in a fog game, your opponent can ascertain whether or not you have one (or more) of the territories of the spoils. its not perfect, but there is a lot of information there.
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Re: Anti Fog spoils.

Postby Aalmeida17 on Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:34 pm

yazoochick wrote:What about games where no spoils is selected?

](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)
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Re: Anti Fog spoils.

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:53 pm

Interesting suggestion. Develop it out a little more. Too bad the suggestion about "Ninja Spoils" seems to have died out.


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Re: Anti Fog spoils.

Postby Aalmeida17 on Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:55 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:Interesting suggestion. Develop it out a little more. Too bad the suggestion about "Ninja Spoils" seems to have died out.


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agree
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Re: Anti Fog spoils.

Postby AAFitz on Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:01 am

AndyDufresne wrote:Interesting suggestion. Develop it out a little more. Too bad the suggestion about "Ninja Spoils" seems to have died out.


--Andy


NOOOO! That idea is not dead. Its an awesome idea. Its better than this one...lol. Its actually just so good, that it opens it up for a plethora of different ideas and ways to implement it, which mean it will be awesome, just a little messier deciding what would be best. If you like that other idea Andy, what might be helpful is asking lack, what would be possible/easiest for him, so we can perhaps discuss the reasonable ways of doing it, and then narrow down which will affect the actual game play best....

But ill put some more thought into this one. I typed it a second after conception...i mean..conception of the idea.

Hopefully some can help us narrow this one down to something useful, and worth coding. Maybe someone who does the programming can suggest what is possible. Some of the ideas for this seemed unlikely.

Such as, spoils lighting one region of no fog ie... unfogging all ajacent territories of that teritory, so youd essentially have little flowers of no fog on the board by the end.

My guess is though, one territory unfogged, coupled with the flat or escalating, or no bonus spoils would be the easiest variation to code, and the combination of spoil combinations would make it the most simple to use and understand. Instead of getting +2 armies for holding a region spoil, you get to see the spot. If you or your team own it...too bad, just like nuclear. Unlike nuclear though, you still get the bonus armies from the card.

It makes it not as powerful, but the easiest to code, and the simplest to understand and implement, I would think??

Right now most of the additions to this seem to end up in the same area.

the whole lighting up the board for seconds or rounds is interesting, but I dont see how it wouldnt just make the game totally unfog after a while, so I personally, dont see how it would work... Besides, if you cash the spoils, then take a quick screenshot with bob...you get a pic for the duration of the game, so its just too powerful.

I think the only reasonable options would be, unfog one territory, or unfog a group of territories, and one territory is easier, and just makes sense. I suspect it isnt a complete impossibility either. Essentially, he would take the code for nuclear, and change it to unfogging the region, not killing it, and then adjust escalating and flat rate, to not give +2 bonus, but just unfog the areas for that one player.

Players already get unfogged areas for reasons on the map, so without knowing better, it technically should be possible??

and anti fog is a good description, but a stupid name for it. I think someone said Clear fog, which is immediately more descriptive, if not as flashy.

Spoils:

Clear fog
Flat rate Clear fog
Escalating Clear fog

or

Clear fog No bonus
Clear fog Flat rate
Clear fog Escalating

The biggest downside, is its essentially one option, but has three names. There may be an easier way, but the no spoils option, makes it more difficult.

I dont think theres any question it would be a fun little addition to the spoils options. I think the only question may be priority, and feasibility. And, those ninja spoils*cough* conquer spoils are definitely a more unique style of play, and I myself would be more interested to see them.

What would be truly ideal, is if we could combine nuclear with flat rate and escalating
this one with flat rate and escalating(which is absolutely necessary)
and ninja spoils with flat rate and escalating too(if possible)

Because its the combinations of these spoils working together that will make the gameplay novel I think. Alone they make all the games no card games, and it means the power of the spoils is typically so small, that playing escalating, is still more challenging. But, combining them, makes a new frontier of strategy, combined with the many objective boards, and maps, that I can only instinctively imagine will create some strategies, that were never dreamed of before.

Ok....I summarize this in my original post. Unless any complain, Ive convinced myself the one territory is the way to go.
By all means if theres a better idea throw it out there still
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Re: Anti Fog spoils.

Postby yeti_c on Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:19 pm

Prefer Qwert's version.

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Re: Anti Fog spoils.

Postby AAFitz on Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:42 pm

yeti_c wrote:Prefer Qwert's version.

C.


qwerts version is the same version I suggested in the first place. I just had other options in there. I agree the name is much better, and that of the choices, its the best option.
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Re: Anti Fog spoils.

Postby yeti_c on Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:48 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:Interesting suggestion. Develop it out a little more. Too bad the suggestion about "Ninja Spoils" seems to have died out.


--Andy


You mean it got refined until it no longer needed any posts - and then disappeared from the beginning of this forum due to lack of integration?

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Re: Anti Fog spoils.

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:26 pm

You should add more smileys to your posts yeti. :)


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Re: Anti Fog spoils.

Postby jaseleo on Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:14 pm

Sounds like a great idea maybe the spoils you get take the fog off the card you have but only for you whilst you hold it, this gives you a planning advantage so that from your first spoil you can plan the next 3 -4 rounds for your kill with good deployments, but also knowing someone else can see territories that they are not boardering with will add that extra safety dimension. I know a lot of 8 player fog games i play i tend to block a player in where i can from round 1 this element will make me aware others could see it.
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Re: Anti Fog spoils.

Postby Qwert on Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:19 pm

by jaseleo » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:14 am

Sounds like a great idea maybe the spoils you get take the fog off the card you have but only for you whilst you hold it, this gives you a planning advantage so that from your first spoil you can plan the next 3 -4 rounds for your kill with good deployments, but also knowing someone else can see territories that they are not boardering with will add that extra safety dimension. I know a lot of 8 player fog games i play i tend to block a player in where i can from round 1 this element will make me aware others could see it.


I dont understand- :?
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Re: Anti Fog spoils.

Postby Qwert on Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:25 pm

Great you implement mine sugestion =D>

but i must say that these its bad.
Also, the spoils will be in the log. You will often have to keep away from those spots with stacks, to keep them hidden, so it will most definitely change game play on both sides.

I still think that only you can know what territory its permanent clear of fog,and these will be same for all players.Also all territory who is starting,will be foggy when you lost in game,because they not cleared of fog,and these mean that territory who you hold,become permanent unfogg when you use cards.
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Re: Anti Fog spoils.

Postby AAFitz on Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:19 pm

qwert wrote:Great you implement mine sugestion =D>

but i must say that these its bad.
Also, the spoils will be in the log. You will often have to keep away from those spots with stacks, to keep them hidden, so it will most definitely change game play on both sides.

I still think that only you can know what territory its permanent clear of fog,and these will be same for all players.Also all territory who is starting,will be foggy when you lost in game,because they not cleared of fog,and these mean that territory who you hold,become permanent unfogg when you use cards.


I dont want to be pettty here, but all you did was suggest what one of the suggestions were in the first place, unless of course you suggested this at some other time, in another suggested. What you suggested, was the option that was the most likely, but some other options were suggested along with it as well, again, unless there is another thread where you suggested clear fog spoils, in which case, you clearly developed the idea. I, as usual, did no such search before this suggestion. If there is a thread, technically, this should just be linked to it, though this one is getting close to refined....I hope.

your naming of it however, was more..."clear" and that I did use. Anti-fog sounds cooler, but clear fog simply makes so much sense it has to be used.

I dont understand fully what you mean by the last part, but to clarify, if you cash spoils on clear fog option. the log will list what regions you held, as it always does, and that will inform players of what sites you can see, if they want to rifle through the log. If there is a way to hide that info as well, that would be great too.
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Re: Anti Fog spoils.

Postby AAFitz on Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:21 pm

jaseleo wrote:Sounds like a great idea maybe the spoils you get take the fog off the card you have but only for you whilst you hold it, this gives you a planning advantage so that from your first spoil you can plan the next 3 -4 rounds for your kill with good deployments, but also knowing someone else can see territories that they are not boardering with will add that extra safety dimension. I know a lot of 8 player fog games i play i tend to block a player in where i can from round 1 this element will make me aware others could see it.


I doubt this would be possible. I think the regions would simply have to become "clear" after you cash the spoils, in exactly the same way the region becomes "nuked" after cashing spoils.
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