The HIVE [Quenched]

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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby MrGlassB on Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:58 pm

I play this map every day, and I usually have 4-5 games going at once. Most of the time, I play triples, no spoils, with fog. I strongly oppose the idea of an objective-based win. What's wrong with playing a massive map and actually needing to conquer all the territories to win? I would probably never play this map 1v1, but I think it's an amazing team map. Please don't mess it up by adding an objective-based winning condition.

MGB
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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby ender516 on Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:03 pm

I wonder a little at the need for an objective. Going in, one must know this is a large map, and therefore may take a while to finish. Does it matter that much to take a few more turns to eliminate all opponents completely?
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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby Orange-Idaho-Dog on Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:17 pm

MrGlassB wrote:I play this map every day, and I usually have 4-5 games going at once. Most of the time, I play triples, no spoils, with fog. I strongly oppose the idea of an objective-based win. What's wrong with playing a massive map and actually needing to conquer all the territories to win? I would probably never play this map 1v1, but I think it's an amazing team map. Please don't mess it up by adding an objective-based winning condition.

MGB



I'm pretty sure the objective would only come into play in a standard game. As far as the xml goes, I'd think it would only count 1 player's territories, not a whole team's combined. Even in a 4 player doubles game, I don't think 1 player alone would be able to hold 250 territories.
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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby denominator on Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:09 pm

I'm not a fan of the victory condition of holding X% of the map to win - on any map. All it does is allow a lazy player(s) to end their game(s) sooner. The tagline and motto of Conquer Club has always been to conquer the entire world, country, city, etc, NOT to conquer 66% of the world, country, city, etc. and be handed a victory.

For other objective maps, the players are always presented the choice of "kill all the other players, or hold these territories to win". This one is basically stating "kill 66% of the other players to win".

I personally like the tactics of the map and trying to work your borders slowly towards total victory, and waiting for the right opportunity to strike and cripple your opponent. With this, it bases even more luck on the cards and spreading your troops over a major landmass as opposed to stacking.

I say leave it as is, or come up with a better objective.
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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby MrGlassB on Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:11 pm

+1 :)

MGB
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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby army of nobunaga on Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:53 pm

I dont really like victory conditions really... They are cool in a few maps.. Sort of like a unique gimick ... But the novelty has worn off on all the victory condition maps now..

I agree.

you have a nice map here. One that takes completely different type of strategy and play. A fun map and different in its own way. You dont need to cheapen it with gimicks.

Example here where change is not always a good thing.



Edit... this seems like a proposal from 1vs1 people... Gimicks+freestyle=cheappoints in 1vs1 against newer players. I dont like this at all after reading all of this.
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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby waerth on Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:45 am

MrGlassB wrote:I play this map every day, and I usually have 4-5 games going at once. Most of the time, I play triples, no spoils, with fog. I strongly oppose the idea of an objective-based win. What's wrong with playing a massive map and actually needing to conquer all the territories to win? I would probably never play this map 1v1, but I think it's an amazing team map. Please don't mess it up by adding an objective-based winning condition.

MGB


I agree I like the map because it is so big and I need to conquer it all ... please do not spoil the fun!
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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby cliffaspinall on Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:43 pm

I would rather see the win condition be holding the all of the storage cells. The middle storage cell (which I would change to the Queen Bee) would be able to attack the outer storage cells in a one way direction (the outer storage cells could not attack the queen or the other storage cells). This would keep the major battles in the middle of the map.

Just don't see how you can have a bee hive and not have the queen bee.

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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby squishyg on Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:24 pm

i like big maps and long games. i say leave hive as is.
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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby VectorxMan on Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:36 pm

why not leave it it as-is. Sure one guy could hold a majority of the territories; but if he is facing multiple survivors and the game still has potential then the top dog can end the game by simply starting his turn...



:idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:
If anything this should branch off into a brand new map option available to all maps just like spoils, reinforcements, fog of war, etc. This way you dont single out and ruin The Hive.
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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby Chariot of Fire on Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:52 am

Plenty of wise words spoken here. Seems the consensus, especially amongst those who play it the most, is to let it bee ;)
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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby Madstuthe1st on Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:31 am

I've been playing this map in single and team games, personally I would leave it as it is. I much rather defeat everyone even if it takes a few more turns.
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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby Rassilon6 on Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:51 am

My opinion: Hive should stay as it is (no objective). Most of the good arguments have already been made. There are just too many variables in that map, especially with escalating cards, so having 66% is not a guarantee to win. Even if it were a given, the player should demonstrate significant strategy and game play in order to hold the lead and take it to a win.
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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby JP007 on Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:57 am

Leave it as it is...The 65% objective is crap...To win a game it should always be 100% conquer of All the territories and elimination of All of the opponents.
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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby MudPuppy on Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:07 pm

Leave it be.... No objective, please.
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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby MrBenn on Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:44 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:let it bee ;)

Let it Bee :lol:
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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby MrBenn on Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:46 pm

              Quenching

---The Beta period has concluded for The Hive Map. All objections have had their time. The Foundry and I hereby brand this map with the Foundry Brand. Let it be known that this map is now ready to be released into live play.

ImageCongratulations WidowMakers and killerpit4e, your shiny new medals are well-earned =D>


Conquer Club, enjoy!
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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby TheForgivenOne on Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:52 pm

Congrats =D
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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby isaiah40 on Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:16 pm

MrBenn wrote:
              Quenching

---The Beta period has concluded for The Hive Map. All objections have had their time. The Foundry and I hereby brand this map with the Foundry Brand. Let it be known that this map is now ready to be released into live play.

ImageCongratulations WidowMakers and killerpit4e, your shiny new medals are well-earned =D>


Conquer Club, enjoy!
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Congrats you two!! A job very well done!!Great map! =D> =D> =D>
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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby army of nobunaga on Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:01 pm

very nice map... I remember it was sometime like last summer when my wife played CC still, you guys sent her some spam pm on whether she would like to see this map or not... we both looked at it and got a chuckle. The laugh is on me now, because this is a pretty epic groundbreaking map.

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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby natty dread on Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:42 am

Congrats on quenching the largest map of CC. Although I like the map I must confess I start/join Hive games rarely... they're so damn long and arduous I can't have more than one of them at a time! :D
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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby cairnswk on Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:15 am

Congrats WM, quite a task you've done again. =D> =D>
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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby JoshyBoy on Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:40 am

Woooo! Sweet stuff.
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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby MrGlassB on Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:15 am

Congrats! :) Glad to see this out of beta. It's a great map.

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Re: The HIVE *V20*- [AdvD, D,GP,GX,XML,FF,Beta]

Postby BUDMAN on Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:37 pm

winning with 66% of the board would seam like a hollow victory. plus if players are in a standoff with most of there troops on each others boarders all you have to do is break one boarder and you can run through there back teritories and you have won! play the game out especially if its escalating cards. maybe make 66% an option.
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