Celtic 7 Nations v4.0 [Gp][Gx][XML][Beta]!

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Celtic 7 Nations v4.0 [Gp][Gx][XML][Beta]!

Postby The Bison King on Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:00 am

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The basic idea is a map of Western Europe and Great Britain, in which the only playable territories are the traditional Celtic 7 nations. Until the 2nd century BC The Celts lived across the whole of central and western Europe. Around the reign of Julius Caeser the Romans began to push the Celts out of mainland Europe, until they were limited to the fringes of western Europe and the Islands of Great Britain and Ireland. Later in AD times the Normans invaded great Britain and pushed the Celts out of the heart of the Island. The only areas left with a Celtic cultural presence became known as the Celtic 7 Nations. Ireland, Scotland, Wales, The Isle of Man, Brittany, Cornwall, and Galicia. Now a days the only real "Nation" amongst them is Ireland, however the Celtic languages in those regions are still spoken and modern nationalist movements are reviving the culture in some areas.

Territories: currently 33
Bonuses: 7, with 3 territories that belong to no bonus (Celtic sea, Giants Causeway, and Stonehenge)
Neutral territories (5):Isle of Mann (2), Powys (2), Celtic Sea (1), Stonehenge (3), Ynysek sllyan (2)
The Celtic sea diminishes by one each turn
Stonehenge auto deploys +1
Last edited by The Bison King on Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:05 am, edited 62 times in total.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

Postby Sniper08 on Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:13 am

very interesting map, good job.

Maybe you can distinquish the different bonuses as people arent gonna know that brittany is the french bonus and galicia is the spanish.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

Postby natty dread on Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:18 am

Looks nice. I really like the visual style.

Perhaps you could put the colours of the bonus areas in the legend, so people who don't know the geography will have some idea how the gameplay works.

Actually I think you could just do a minimap. You have so much space in this map, I see you're struggling to fill it (why else would you write the bonuses with those huge letters) so anything that can fill it with something relative will be positive...

Also I'm glad that you took my suggestion of the sea territory, even though you didn't do it like I had imagined... although now that I think of it, you could maybe even consider making it a killer neutral. :-k

Also, why does london get a +1 autodeploy if it wasn't a part of the celtic nations?
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

Postby rockandrull on Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:27 am

I like it. I still wish you would have done the Colonial Africa map though.
Nice logo.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

Postby The Bison King on Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:51 am

Also I'm glad that you took my suggestion of the sea territory, even though you didn't do it like I had imagined... although now that I think of it, you could maybe even consider making it a killer neutral. :-k


Could you please define the difference between a killer neutral and a territory with a decay? I think I know what you mean but I want to make sure.

Perhaps you could put the colours of the bonus areas in the legend, so people who don't know the geography will have some idea how the gameplay works.

Actually I think you could just do a minimap. You have so much space in this map, I see you're struggling to fill it (why else would you write the bonuses with those huge letters) so anything that can fill it with something relative will be positive...


Yeah I could see that as a concern, I wouldn't imagine most people know much about some of these regions. Even I have only the foggiest understandings about Galicia. I'll try color coding it. The mini maps not a bad idea either, however I want to leave room for the big ornate letters on the bonus key ;)

Also, why does london get a +1 autodeploy if it wasn't a part of the celtic nations?


well, there's a little bit of history that shows a Celtic (Welsh) occupation of London after the Romans left Britain and before the Saxon invaders arrived. I made it a +1 because I like to imagine the Celts taking this powerful city for themselves and using it as a stronghold against invaders (though there really isn't any history of that :? ...)

I like it. I still wish you would have done the Colonial Africa map though.
Nice logo.


Don't worry I'm not scrapping Colonial Africa, just saving it ;)

And thanks, I think my logo's pretty sweet as well!
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

Postby Sniper08 on Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:00 pm

A killer neutral is im guessing a neutral with a high number like say 6 or 7 for this map.

btw you spelt isle of man wrong on the map.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

Postby rockandrull on Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:02 pm

You need to specify which bonus is which.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

Postby natty dread on Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:02 pm

The Bison King wrote:
Also I'm glad that you took my suggestion of the sea territory, even though you didn't do it like I had imagined... although now that I think of it, you could maybe even consider making it a killer neutral. :-k


Could you please define the difference between a killer neutral and a territory with a decay? I think I know what you mean but I want to make sure.


Decay: a territory with a negative autodeploy. It loses troops each turn, but never goes under 1 troops (ie. will not turn neutral.)

Killer neutral: Starts as a neutral territory with n neutral troops. It can be conquered, but when the player holding the territory begins his turn, it reverts back to n neutrals, killing the troops that were on it. In theory, if the killer neutral changes owner each turn, it may stay without reverting to neutral indefinitely.



yeah I could see that as a concern, I wouldn't imagine most people know much about some of these regions. Even I have only the foggiest understandings about Galicia. I'll try color coding it. The mini maps not a bad idea either, however I want to leave room for the big ornate letters on the bonus key ;)


You have plenty of room... here's finally a map where you can do a really elaborate minimap. You can make it big enough to fit all the bonus area names in the minimap itself, along with the bonus values of course.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

Postby The Bison King on Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:04 pm

btw Natty I added the answer to that London question into my last post check it out.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

Postby The Bison King on Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:06 pm

btw you spelt isle of man wrong on the map.


Oh damn! good catch... :oops:
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

Postby The Bison King on Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:10 pm

Decay: a territory with a negative autodeploy. It loses troops each turn, but never goes under 1 troops (ie. will not turn neutral.)

Killer neutral: Starts as a neutral territory with n neutral troops. It can be conquered, but when the player holding the territory begins his turn, it reverts back to n neutrals, killing the troops that were on it. In theory, if the killer neutral changes owner each turn, it may stay without reverting to neutral indefinitely.


Ok that is what I thought. I think it needs to stay a decay, instead of a Killer neutral, because I think a killer Neutral would make Galicia too easy to defend if you took Cornwall as well. Making it a decay makes it harder to defend because you won't be able to rely on a neutral buffer zone returning at the end of each turn.

Here I'll just repost the London bit if you missed it.

Also, why does london get a +1 autodeploy if it wasn't a part of the celtic nations?



well, there's a little bit of history that shows a Celtic (Welsh) occupation of London after the Romans left Britain and before the Saxon invaders arrived. I made it a +1 because I like to imagine the Celts taking this powerful city for themselves and using it as a stronghold against invaders (though there really isn't any history of that :? ...)
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

Postby Balsiefen on Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:32 pm

At the moment most of the names are in English, maybe you could find and use the names in their native languages, perhaps using the ancient kingdoms rather than general geographic regions in Scotland. I'm not brilliant at this but roughly the lowlands would be Galloway or Strathclyde, Dal Riada would be along the west coast Goddodin could replace Edinburgh and Cat for most of the highlands.

Edit: found a rough map http://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/map ... bk_550.jpg
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

Postby Industrial Helix on Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:14 pm

England could use some shortening in the style similar as you've done with France and Scotland could use some lengthening.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

Postby The Bison King on Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:02 pm

At the moment most of the names are in English, maybe you could find and use the names in their native languages, perhaps using the ancient kingdoms rather than general geographic regions in Scotland. I'm not brilliant at this but roughly the lowlands would be Galloway or Strathclyde, Dal Riada would be along the west coast Goddodin could replace Edinburgh and Cat for most of the highlands.


I think a lot of what I'm going to be doing is doing research on old Celtic names of these regions. I already have pulled out some books on Celtic history, we'll see what I dig up. The hard thing is that a lot of these regions (particularly in the south) were inhabited by Celtic people at times when they didn't establish permanent names for regions since they were tribal. Ireland and Wales are pretty easy to pin down, as well as Cornwall. However Brittany and Galicia are big gaping mysteries. We'll see if I can turn up any older historical names for them.

England could use some shortening in the style similar as you've done with France and Scotland could use some lengthening.


That's a lot easier said than done :cry: we'll see i that needs to happen.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

Postby natty dread on Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:22 pm

The Bison King wrote:
England could use some shortening in the style similar as you've done with France and Scotland could use some lengthening.


That's a lot easier said than done :cry: we'll see i that needs to happen.


See, here is one flaw in this technique of yours - painting on watercolour and scanning it on computer. It worked great for Thyseneal, but this is a very different project, one that may require more tweaking - mainly because you don't have such a highly developed concept to start from.

Perhaps you should first do a draft with only outlines of territories on computer, then make sure the layout is satisfactory, then print out the outlines on paper, paint it over with watercolour, then scan it and import it as the colour layer... :-k

Either way it would be better if you would get the gameplay worked out first, and then when you're in graphics workshop start working with the watercolour.

But I have to say... even though I really love the style on your Thyseneal map, I'm afraid relying too much on your painting skills may prevent you from developing your computer graphics skills. I'm just suggesting that you might want to try different techniques, because otherwise you will be placing limits to what kind of maps you will be able to do in the future....
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

Postby The Bison King on Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:39 pm

The Bison King wrote:

England could use some shortening in the style similar as you've done with France and Scotland could use some lengthening.



That's a lot easier said than done :cry: we'll see i that needs to happen.



See, here is one flaw in this technique of yours - painting on watercolour and scanning it on computer. It worked great for Thyseneal, but this is a very different project, one that may require more tweaking - mainly because you don't have such a highly developed concept to start from.

Perhaps you should first do a draft with only outlines of territories on computer, then make sure the layout is satisfactory, then print out the outlines on paper, paint it over with watercolour, then scan it and import it as the colour layer... :-k

Either way it would be better if you would get the gameplay worked out first, and then when you're in graphics workshop start working with the watercolour.

But I have to say... even though I really love the style on your Thyseneal map, I'm afraid relying too much on your painting skills may prevent you from developing your computer graphics skills. I'm just suggesting that you might want to try different techniques, because otherwise you will be placing limits to what kind of maps you will be able to do in the future....
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I had the unpainted draft for a really really long time, there was a lot of time (a couple months) to comment on it if you wanted to but you didn't. Besides I can make adjustments on the computer, just regarding Scotland, I'd rather not if I don't have to that's all. admittedly it's a little harder than before I painted but I can do it (like I already did with Spain) Also I'm trying to fib geography as little as possible that's all.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

Postby natty dread on Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:44 pm

The Bison King wrote:I had the unpainted draft for a really really long time, there was a lot of time (a couple months) to comment on it if you wanted to but you didn't. Besides I can make adjustments on the computer, just regarding Scotland, I'd rather not if I don't have to that's all. admittedly it's a little harder than before I painted but I can do it (like I already did with Spain) Also I'm trying to fib geography as little as possible that's all.


I'm just trying to offer advice, that's all. Either way, it would be advisable to get the gameplay & overall layout of the map sorted before you start working on the graphics.

As for the unpainted draft being up for a long time, well, you know how it is around here. Any thread that isn't constantly posted on tends to drift slowly into oblivion ;)
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

Postby mattattam on Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:29 pm

I really like your new look on this map. Very appealing. I already want to play it. I'll take a longer look later. Looking forward to seeing this map develop. :D
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

Postby perchorin on Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:35 pm

Looks like a great map, I agree with some of the above statements though, the Spanish areas would be better in an inset map or something, the first look I had made me think there were two different Celtic parts of France.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

Postby mattattam on Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:24 am

This map is very simple and straightforward while bringing something unique in the set up and game play. A lot of people have been commenting that they want new maps that aren't so complicated and I think this fits the bill perfectly.

And although natty disagrees with me I think the open space in this map is a part of that. Someone looking at this map doesn't need to spend the night figuring it out. I like complicated maps, and this is just something simple that also brings something different from any map currently on CC.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

Postby mattattam on Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:32 am

So, I figure you are having London, Isle of man, and Celtic Sea start neutral. You could put that in the first post unless you're thinking of doing something different?

Just to throw this thought out there, I think using something different then the dashes to show connections between territories would make this map even more appealing. That is something that can be addressed in graphics though.

My biggest concern with this map is Cornwall. My suggestion is to add another territory to it so it has 3 territories instead of 2. This would make it more reasonable as a bonus of 2. Then you could have it connected to another territory in Wales or Brittany via dotted line which would open Cornwall up more and make it less of a bottleneck.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

Postby rockandrull on Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:43 am

You painted that map?
Damn!
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

Postby MarshalNey on Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:56 pm

This map is beautiful. I say paint away, if this 'limits' the maps that you can do, so what? I wish I was that limited.

The comment about Spain's northern part looking like France upon first glance is unfortunately correct. Maybe, you could cheat in the southern coast of Spain to give us the sense of a penninsula?
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

Postby The Bison King on Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:33 pm

Looks like a great map, I agree with some of the above statements though, the Spanish areas would be better in an inset map or something, the first look I had made me think there were two different Celtic parts of France.


The comment about Spain's northern part looking like France upon first glance is unfortunately correct. Maybe, you could cheat in the southern coast of Spain to give us the sense of a penninsula?


hmm... I see. Here's my Idea. I'll rework the sizing a little bit on the actual map to make Galicia a little bigger (It really should be a little bigger any way) Then I'll add the mini map to Illustrate the bonuses. The mini map will be slightly zoomed out to give you a clearer picture of the region you are looking at. Sound good?

So, I figure you are having London, Isle of man, and Celtic Sea start neutral. You could put that in the first post unless you're thinking of doing something different?


yeah that's a good idea. Celtic sea needs to start as a neutral (because it wouldn't be fair to start one player on a diminishing territory) but it has to start low (only 1 or 2 troops since it's a natural choke point) You know, I was thinking that it could work as a killer neutral, so long as it only brings it back down to 1 neutral, But either way I think it works fine.

My biggest concern with this map is Cornwall. My suggestion is to add another territory to it so it has 3 territories instead of 2. This would make it more reasonable as a bonus of 2. Then you could have it connected to another territory in Wales or Brittany via dotted line which would open Cornwall up more and make it less of a bottleneck.


Yes I think that there is a bit of a bottle neck concern their. I'm not sure I need to add a territory, not only is there no historical evidence supporting a larger region of Cornwall or "Kenrow" but I like there being a small 2 territory bonus that helps divide the southern and northern portions of the map. However here are a couple idea's to help ease that area as a choke point: Either connect Devon, to either Munster, Cardiff, or Pembrokeshire, or maybe even a combination of 2 of them.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

Postby mattattam on Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:25 am

I like Celtic Sea only being 1 or 2 to start. I prefer 1 unless I hear a good argument for more. Also I think it would be better as a diminishing territory. I don't think it would make much difference if it was a killer neutral or diminishing because people will most likely not stay there anyways.

What do you think about having London start 4 neutral?

I like the idea of having devon connect to cotes d'amour, munster, and cardiff.
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