Cyprus [Quenched]

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Re: Cyprus [Coming Soon]

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:24 pm

porkenbeans wrote:This could be a sweet little map. Please continue.
Glad to help with the graphics, if you should need it. ;)


Don't worry, I haven't forgotten what we talked about,there's something for which I'm happy to have your help, but not this map. I'll explain to you when the right moment comes. :)
As said i already found an helping hand on the high seas, to be precise a buccaneer.... ;)
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Cyprus (23rd June) New version!

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:11 pm

ok a good news, luckily I've found an old version and with a bit of work i'm now ready to post again :D

It's a bit a mess, i know, but for now i want comments about how the map works not about how it looks like...
Another good news is that Gilligan jumped on board in this project. He will write the xml and will help me developing the gameplay of this map.

But talking about the map.....what's new:

Two factions - turkish cities --> red circles (+1 every 5) - greek cities --> blue circles (+1 every 7). Both bonuses give you max +2
Nicosia belongs to both factions and start with 5 neutral
The two BMB cities aren't part of any bonus and revert to 2 neutrals
Bonuses are small, i'm open to changes but i'd like to keep all them small
The map has 8 SP (4 turkish and 4 greek - the circles are temporary) and everything else start neutral. All values are temporary.
Objective added: there are two possible objectives, the greek victory - all greek cities, nicosia and kyrenia and famagusta; the turkish victory - all turkish cities, nicosia, paphos, limassol and larnaca. In other words you have to hold all your factions and the other faction district capitals.
Paralimni is now part of Larnaca district, although it is part of Famagusta district, the greek population prevails in this area and it also justifies the last part of the UN buffered zone.

Click image to enlarge.
image


Feedback:
Some aspect i'd like to discuss before submitting the Design Brief:
1. Turkish/ greek bonus - the idea is to balance the two factions, the turkish is a bit smaller and "quick" to hold, the greek is larger but more powerful when held.
2. BMB (Akrotiri and Dhekelia) neutral values - the idea is to have a single quick way to move around the island and to broke the other faction bonus.
3. I'd like to have some suggestions about two different symbols to replace the red/blue circles that are obviously temporary.

Thoughts? :)
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Re: Cyprus (23rd June) New version!

Postby theBastard on Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:27 am

thenobodies80 wrote:Feedback:
Some aspect i'd like to discuss before submitting the Design Brief:
1. Turkish/ greek bonus - the idea is to balance the two factions, the turkish is a bit smaller and "quick" to hold, the greek is larger but more powerful when held.
2. BMB (Akrotiri and Dhekelia) neutral values - the idea is to have a single quick way to move around the island and to broke the other faction bonus.
3. I'd like to have some suggestions about two different symbols to replace the red/blue circles that are obviously temporary.

Thoughts? :)


I like this map. and the new version looking better in GP.

1, bonuses are not balanced, I think. for turkish bonus player need 5 turkish towns, for greek bonus 7 greek towns. but I can not see any advantage for greeks - you wrote that it is more powerfull...
2, I like this idea, but maybe give them any speciality (bombardment...?)
3, what about only coloured names of towns?

Cyprus is island, so what to add any ports here?
about victory, for turkish player needs to hold less towns, so players starting in turkish side could have advantage...
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Re: Cyprus (23rd June) New version!

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:13 am

theBastard wrote:1, bonuses are not balanced, I think. for turkish bonus player need 5 turkish towns, for greek bonus 7 greek towns. but I can not see any advantage for greeks - you wrote that it is more powerfull...


I mean that the whole greek side gives you more troops when held (max +2 with the greek bonus + 2 paphos + 2 limassol + 3 larnaca) and instead the turkish side gives you less troops but is quicker to hold. Anyway those values can be changed, what values do you want suggest?

theBastard wrote:2, I like this idea, but maybe give them any speciality (bombardment...?)


they already have a special feature, in fact they are both killer neutrals, i think it's enough, or not? :-k

theBastard wrote:3, what about only coloured names of towns?


I thought about this possibilty, but there could be a couple of problems. Nicosia, that belongs to both factions, the coloured name doesn't work in that case. Moreover i used the coloured names in another map i was developing (now on vacation) and the coloured names weren't so much appreciated...so i thought about a sort of symbol (flags or something else, but i'm a bit lost on this :oops: )

Thank you for your suggestions, they were really appreciated :D
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Re: Cyprus (23rd June) New version!

Postby theBastard on Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:03 am

thenobodies80 wrote:I mean that the whole greek side gives you more troops when held (max +2 with the greek bonus + 2 paphos + 2 limassol + 3 larnaca) and instead the turkish side gives you less troops but is quicker to hold. Anyway those values can be changed, what values do you want suggest?


yes, but this only valid if you hold (with greek towns) also any region. but no when you hold 7 greek towns as = 2 from one region, 3 from second region and 2 from third...

thenobodies80 wrote:they already have a special feature, in fact they are both killer neutrals, i think it's enough, or not? :-k


than yes, I missed this :oops: . maybe they could attack each other as ports?

thenobodies80 wrote:I thought about this possibilty, but there could be a couple of problems. Nicosia, that belongs to both factions, the coloured name doesn't work in that case. Moreover i used the coloured names in another map i was developing (now on vacation) and the coloured names weren't so much appreciated...so i thought about a sort of symbol (flags or something else, but i'm a bit lost on this :oops: )


flags could be fine. when I will have any idea I will post it :D

thenobodies80 wrote:Thank you for your suggestions, they were really appreciated :D
Nobodies


not at all.
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Re: Cyprus (23rd June) New version!

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:45 am

I kind of miss the British bases... though they appear on the map in gameplay, they are not designated as such. I woul liek to see them designated somehow.
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Re: Cyprus (23rd June) New version!

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:30 am

theBastard wrote:yes, but this only valid if you hold (with greek towns) also any region. but no when you hold 7 greek towns as = 2 from one region, 3 from second region and 2 from third...


I agree. As said i'm open to change the numbers of territories needed :)
The idea is to simulate a sort of "political influence" / "people support" that gives to you additional troops to help you to take the control of the regions.
In the same time i must say that it looks a bit stupid if you have 7 regions and you don't try to take a zone bonus, specially if you think that each player starts the game with a single territory. The territory bonus seems more easy to hold to me and it should come before the other during a game.

About the two British Military Bases i forgot to write it on the map, but sure they can attack each other :)
I'll update it later, when back home

Thanks again ;)
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Re: Cyprus (23rd June) New version!

Postby theBastard on Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:29 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:In the same time i must say that it looks a bit stupid if you have 7 regions and you don't try to take a zone bonus, specially if you think that each player starts the game with a single territory. The territory bonus seems more easy to hold to me and it should come before the other during a game.


I agree but no evrybody play intelligent :lol: or no everybody has lucky...
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Re: Cyprus (23rd June) New version!

Postby rockandrull on Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:00 pm

I think you go a little impassable crazy....and only plus 1 for 5/7 greek/turkish cities, respectfully?
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Re: Cyprus (23rd June) New version!

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:29 pm

the original idea was without the factions bonus and honestly i was happy with it, but i've added it to follow the suggestions.
Personally i want to keep this map with low bonuses, very low.
The big impassable is a wall that separates the two parts also in real life (for what i know actually they're planning to destroy it).
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Re: Cyprus (23rd June) New version!

Postby ManBungalow on Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:08 am

That font is a pain to read.
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Re: Cyprus (23rd June) New version!

Postby porkenbeans on Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:26 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:the original idea was without the factions bonus and honestly i was happy with it, but i've added it to follow the suggestions.
Personally i want to keep this map with low bonuses, very low.
The big impassable is a wall that separates the two parts also in real life (for what i know actually they're planning to destroy it).
Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. A small map should have small bonuses.
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Re: Cyprus (23rd June) New version!

Postby eigenvector on Sat Jun 26, 2010 8:46 am

Hi,

I liked the version with the British bases more, too. It was much neater. One more graphical comment: the sea looks a bit dreary, maybe yu could make it brighter and/or add some graphics in the sea?

Anyway, this is a cool project, keep up the good work! :)
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Re: Cyprus (23rd June) New version!

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:57 pm

I've made some changes following the suggestions given:
  • Factions bonus is now +1 every 4 and +1 every 5 instead of +1 for 5 or 7.
  • Faction bonus is displayed with a minimap --> Is it clear?
  • Removed the old minimap for a bonus list, I've also decided for different values for district bonuses.
  • Readded the british flag and a visual sea connection between the two BMB
  • More redeable font

Circles on district capitals have a purely indicative purpose (starting positions)

Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby natty dread on Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:52 pm

Looks interesting. Although the starting positions that are in the smaller 3-territory bonuses might have an advantage... easier to grab bonuses in the start.
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:10 pm

natty_dread wrote:Looks interesting. Although the starting positions that are in the smaller 3-territory bonuses might have an advantage... easier to grab bonuses in the start.


the idea was:
kokkina covers paphos
paphos covers limassol
morphou covers kyrenia
Although i know that in some cases it could be a problem
Anyway i can change them in the gameplay workshop :)
Going to post here....viewtopic.php?f=63&t=105502
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby theBastard on Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:21 pm

the new version looks fine. maybe natty is right about bonuses advantages, but it could be balanced by different numbers of armies in neutral territories...
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby rockandrull on Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:49 am

Are the military bases part of the bonuses?
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:11 am

rockandrull wrote:Are the military bases part of the bonuses?


No they aren't. They are both killer neutrals.
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby Gilligan on Sun Jul 04, 2010 7:36 pm

It seems like some of the starting positions are uneven in comparison to the others.

Example:

Morphou -> Kyrenia = 6 neutral
Paphos -> Limassol = 3 neutral
Famagusta -> Larnaca = 2 neutral
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:24 am

After discussing with Gilligan, we decided to remove starting positions.
All the coloured regions on the map are starting regions not coded and totally random, like Feudal War.
Now we need to change neutrals or move around some of those starting regions to balance the map....that is something that we'd like to focus as soon as the map is moved into the GP stage.
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby natty dread on Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:19 am

thenobodies80 wrote:After discussing with Gilligan, we decided to remove starting positions.
All the coloured regions on the map are starting regions not coded and totally random, like Feudal War.


It won't really make a difference except for 2 player games.

And manual deploy...
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:51 am

natty_dread wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:After discussing with Gilligan, we decided to remove starting positions.
All the coloured regions on the map are starting regions not coded and totally random, like Feudal War.


It won't really make a difference except for 2 player games.

And manual deploy...

No, it does instead if SP are in pairs, also because it would make little sense otherwise (except for a 1vs1)

If we code 4 pairs (4x2 terr) of starting positions, with game with 4 or less players each player will receive the same pair of territories (we can't say only which pair), with no coded starting positions it's totally random.
The main problem using starting positions is that the most balanced configuration of pairing exclude the possibilty that in a 1vs1 players are divided in the two sides from the start. ( i can assure you that i've tried a ton of pairs)
But without SP this could happen...and we like the idea :)
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:55 pm

Looking good, time to move on!
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby Evil DIMwit on Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:47 am

Your starting points are way too close together. It'll be too easy to eliminate another player before they've taken their turn. They're also not very well balanced vis-a-vis the bonus areas: Whoever starts with Paphos or Limassol has a much easier time getting a bonus than someone who starts with Famagusta. Add to that the fact that two of the starting positions aren't required for any victory condition, which gives them something in the way of an advantage, and the whole thing reeks of imbalance.
I can't really think of a solution that doesn't involve dividing the island into a lot more territories than it has now.
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