[Abandoned] - Tenochtitlan

[TuckerCase]

Tenochtitlan was the capital of the Aztec empire. The city was inhabited by 200,000 people, or possibly more, and was built out in the middle of a lake somewhere close to modern day Mexico City. The invading Spaniards, under the leadership of Cortez sacked the city, and destroyed it completely. Pretty cool, huh? Now it's your turn to try to do the same.

A quick note first, I used the ocean background that Freakshow suggested to Marvaddin for his new map. Marvaddin did use it in combination with another ocean to create a new ocean entirely, and I think it's far enough apart for there not to be a problem. I asked freakshow about it in PM, but didn't want to wait for a reply to start hearing opinions. So at this point it could change.

Now on to notes about this map:

- The temple complex is the heart of the city, and reflects it with it's very high bonus. I really wanted to simulate the feeling of a real city battle, or a siege. The temple complex will be hotly contested, and I feel it won't be easy for anyone to capture, but because of such a high bonus everyone will need to give it their attention, to stop rivals from gaining it. I think it could make for interesting game play.

- The two continents made up of ships are pretty much worthless as continents go. No one can succeed by trying to control the ships as a main base of support. The ships are only intended to support your troops on shore. If you look at the links, controlling some of the ships will shorten the number of countries you need to hold for each continent. I really don't like the idea of someone being able to build a powerful base outside of the city, but it still adds some dynamic elements, and also directs the fighting inward.

- The names I used on the map were intended to give it a more familiar feeling. I didn't want to randomly look up a lot of Aztec words, and annoy everyone, including me, to death. The only Aztec words I used were for the canoes, because I was stumped about what to name canoes.

- The map isn't finished, but how it's laid out now is how I want the game to play. So comment, or try to convince me otherwise.

[rocksolid]

I think the concept is brilliant - I really like the crazy bonus for the temple, it makes sense for the concept and will be very unique, though it's sure to find some hataz around here.

Graphics definitely need some work - text visibility is a bit dodgy right now, and the lines from ship to shore are very faint. A lot of people here have crappy monitors and poor colour vision, so keep that in mind.

Also, there's a couple of misplaced apostrophes - Pyramid of the gods, no apostrophe, and Rich Villas, no apostrophe. And I think some names could do with some changing - "Urban Sprawl" sounds a little anachronistic, even if it isn't.

That thing in Spear Maker isn't quite a hit yet. Looks like a grape in blue jello.

Also, maybe instead of saying Spanish Ships and Aztec Ships, you could say Spanish Ships and Aztec Canoes, since people might not pick up on how to differentiate Spanish vs. Aztec (obvious though it may be).

As for the water, it doesn't feel very watery yet - seems more like your map is floating in the clouds rather than being an island in a lake. Maybe make the canals/rivers the same water as the lake.

Again, great concept, very unique by a simple manipulation of bonuses in an unorthodox way.

[AndyDufresne]

Well lets see...


---I won't comment too much on visuals due to this being the early working. But I will say I agree with Rock's post about the water feeling like a cloud. Also the ships don't seem quite to fit with the map, perhaps because they are real life representations. Have you considered looking into more picturesque--'cartoonish' images (I.E. not real photos)

---The legend idea is interesting, but some names are rather hard to read. Perhaps look into different fonts that are more representational for the Aztec era. Perhaps even calling the residential area just Residential.

---I like your experimentation with placing images under certain country names, though I am not sure it works out how it was intended. I think your best bet would be to investigate some textures for the continental areas

================================

---I count 42 countries, so that is nice.

---As Rock noted the overly high bonus idea is interesting, something we should look into. It’s a unique idea, and I like that you are trying ti centralize battles. But I must say a bonus of 10 might turn the tides way too much. I think a bonus of 8 would be sufficient, and still quite high.

---One thing I am afraid of is all the other continents. They have horrendous borders, even the smallest one can't be held for a justifiable bonus.

Yellow = 3 Borders
Red = 4 Borders
Purple = 4 Borders
Orange = 8 Borders
Blue = 5 Borders
White = 3 Borders

White is the only one that seems to have thought taken into the borders. I think you can eliminate some of the boat --> continent borders while still keeping the effect you set out to establish.

---Also are the rivers merely placed in their respective regions or are they accurate geographic features?

================================

---Overall I think the border issues need to be addressed to make the map more playable. The central 'Dominant Continent' is a likeable idea, but useless if you really can't hold any of the other 'Camp Continents'.


--Andy

[cracker]

I like the idea of doing a map like this. I think that the resedential areas should have a higher bonus because 5 armies for 10-8-8 (countries-borders-countries to invade from) seems low. I'd say 6 atleast. And it is really hard to read the yellow continents name on the key. I'm guessing it's 'Harbor'. Other than the water and the ships and what i said, everything else looks good Can't wait to play!!!

[haha]

i cant read the legend

[TuckerCase]

I agree that the borders need to be updated. Harbor, Market Place, Smith District, Merchant District are the 4 continents that I'm concerned with making relatively easy to hold.

I could bring the number of borders for Harbor, and Market Place down to 3 each, which will turn into only 2 borders if one also controls the adjacent ship next to them. So that would be like a 5 country continent with 2 borders for 2 bonus.

I could bring the Smith District, and Merchant District down to 4 borders each, which will turn into 3 borders if one controls the adjacent ship next to those. So that would be like a 7 country continent with 3 borders for 3 bonus.

That still is probably too hard to hold, though. I could increase the bonus by 1 for each, but that wouldn't necessarily make them easier to hold. Another thing I could do is to decrease the number of borders of each by 1. Harbor, and Market Place could each be completely surrounded by the canal, and have a one way border into the Temple Complex. I would justify that by naming the countries with the one way border something like "canoe builder" or "canal barge service." For the Smith, and Merchant Districts they would have only one border with the temple complex.

If anyone has any suggestions on how to rectify the border situation, please weigh in.

[cracker]

I know that the canal in the Resedential Area is spliting the rich from the poor, but you could move it to the left and use it as a barier between brown and blue. Or you could make a new canal on that border, but leave Copper Smith and Cananl's End still touching so that they don't come completely isolated.
Oh, here's an idea, you could give a bonus for holding the dock and ships. For example, if you hold the dock and all the ships, or one group of ships, then you could get an additional reinforcement or two.
Can't wait to see the next version.

[Banana Stomper]

it looks like the antarctica map being made. I say you two duke it out for better map of the two!

[Marvaddin]

Well, the different gameplay is welcome, but as Andy said, 10 armies is TOOOOO high. I think 6 is already a great bonus, or this will decide the team games from the start... Imagine the first triple... One player can, with this bonus, play for 3, maybe not only in escalating.

3 turns in a flat rate game:
A) Normal triple: 9 cards, maybe 30 armies, 27 armies from regular deployments.
B) Triple of 1 guy (his partners died so he could have the center): 3 cards (maybe 10 armies), 9 regular troops, and 30 armies from the bonus.
Total: A 47 x B 49.

Imagine in no cards, now. And with the low bonuses for other continents, its still worse. No other thing matter. So, no way, its tooooo high. with 4 countries and 3 borders, 6 would be the best bonus of all continents in all maps already, no need to 10.

Just my opinion, its constructive criticism, dont become angry.

[HighBorn]

i agree 10 is crazy i could go for a team game on it

[Marvaddin]

it looks like the antarctica map being made. I say you two duke it out for better map of the two!

Oh, and I agree with this, too.

[TuckerCase]

My favorite type of game is a 6 player without teams, and for that I think what I'm coming up with will be pretty fair even with a 10 army bonus. I see what you're saying though about team games. I'll probably have to lower it to an 8 army bonus. Not a 6 bonus though. I think that compromises some of what my map is about. Maybe it won't be ideal for team games, but then we have a lot of maps already that are, and anyway some people might like the rush.

[HighBorn]

Maybe it won't be ideal for team games, but then we have a lot of maps already that are, and anyway some people might like the rush.

i see blood on the horrizon....

[gavin_sidhu]

If ur playing freestyle with double turns allowed just a one turn stay on the centre could determine the game. Maybe you should make it slightly larger. 6 instead of 4 countries perhaps.

[TuckerCase]

So here's the updated version. It's a major improvement, I'd say. I decided to replace the ocean with something a little darker and more lively. I've also put some texture on the map that I think looks pretty cool. I fixed some, if not all, of the text. I faded all of the ships just a little to make them not stick out quite so much. In the end, I went against mixing pictures in with the countries. It might have been a good idea, but only if done very well. I did leave one pyramid in the center, because I think it looks ok, and gives the impression that Montezuma's Palace is the greatest country, or the objective.

As for the game play I expanded the canals quite a bit, which should make the Harbor, Market Place, Smith District, and the Merchant District all easy to hold. I also lowered the bonus for the Temple complex to 8. I also added two one way borders, as marked by the arrows. I renamed the two countries that the one way attacks can be launched from "Canoe Port," and "Canal Barge Service," which justifies why they can get across the canals. I did run into a bit of a problem with that, though, as for instance Canoe Port is across the canal from the Jeweler too. I'm not redrawing the borders though, that would be too much work. So here is the official reason why those attacks cannot take place, and listen closely:

Aztec legend says it is horrible luck to attack a Jeweler from across a canal. It's ancient prophecy, and the canoe pilots are so superstitious they go on strike if you try to make them. Yep.

So be honest, any suggestion you guys have, either the graphics, or the game play, I want to hear it.