[Site] Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

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Should we change the rating system, or leave it as it is?

Yes, change it.
76
52%
No, leave it.
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Total votes : 146

[Site] Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby temporos on Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:51 pm

Concise description:
  • Migrate from a "1 to 5" star system to a "-2 to +2" star system.

Specifics/Details:
  • Right now: 1 is bad, 5 is awesome.
  • Migrate to: -2 is bad, +2 is awesome.
  • Migration should be retroactive.
  • Lack of a rating should be counted as a 0 or "average" rating.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
  • Right now, the average player rating is about 4.8 stars: well above the 3 star "average."
  • If the scale is adjusted such that "average" is 0, anything below average is negative, and anything above average is positive, the average player rating will naturally stabilize around 0.
  • If a player does not wish to leave a rating for his opponents after a match, it counts as a 0 or "average" rating.
  • This proposed system will encourage a more intuitive and reliable measure of a player's attitude, gameplay, and sociability.
  • Players would be compelled to leave a rating only if they wish to leave an above or below average rating for another player.
  • Players aren't left jaded when someone leaves them a less-than-5-star rating (i.e., everybody wins).
Last edited by spiesr on Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby TheForgivenOne on Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:54 pm

All this will get, is people with a 1.8 rating. And again, if people barely rate anyone, and you are saying that if they aren't rated, they are given a "0", then it will partially sway their rating. Because i've played against fantastic players, who surely deserve all 5's, and decided not to. I've played against horrible players who deserve all 1's. But I didn't.
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby temporos on Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:40 pm

Then, at this point, I guess my question changes to, "Why bother with a rating system at all?" Regardless of your intention, your response is a strong argument for never rating anyone and ignoring those ratings which are given.
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby Army of GOD on Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:51 pm

I don't really get the point of the rating system.

Nice people rate consistent 5s unless someone is actually not fun to play with/against, and dicks just give out 1s unless they play with friends.

I haven't rated someone in a while now.
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby TheForgivenOne on Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:04 pm

temporos wrote:Then, at this point, I guess my question changes to, "Why bother with a rating system at all?" Regardless of your intention, your response is a strong argument for never rating anyone and ignoring those ratings which are given.


I rate every now and then, so i'm not saying it's pointless. If i do see someone with a 4.0 rating, then obviously they aren't fun to play with. But if you start punishing players, all because someone decides not to rate, then there will be more outcries from everyone.
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby MichelSableheart on Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:37 am

TFO wrote:I rate every now and then, so i'm not saying it's pointless. If i do see someone with a 4.0 rating, then obviously they aren't fun to play with. But if you start punishing players, all because someone decides not to rate, then there will be more outcries from everyone.
But you must admit that this is extremely strange. If some has a 4.0 rating, they are rated "above average". Someone who is rated 4.0 should therefore be above average fun to play with. Which is completely different from not fun to play with at all.

Furthermore, if someone is currently rated 4.8 or 4.9, that player has to be estimated at only average, even though their rating is nearly perfect.

Someone who consistently leaves all 5's in rating does not help the rating system at all, because his ratings do not make a difference between the good and great players. It is impossible with the way the current rating system is used to determine which players are exceptionally fun to play with.

That being said, I'm afraid that this suggestion won't change that. More average ratings given out will lower all players average rating somewhat, but it won't change the problem that most players who DO rate, rate other players consistently maximum.
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby temporos on Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:37 am

TheForgivenOne wrote:If i do see someone with a 4.0 rating, then obviously they aren't fun to play with.

Someone who is "above average" is "[obviously not] fun to play with?" This is completely illogical... :-s

TheForgivenOne wrote:But if you start punishing players, all because someone decides not to rate, then there will be more outcries from everyone.

If a player failed to rate a fellow player, the default rating would be like a "0." You're not punishing them, you'd be saying they're no better or worse than most others on the site. That's the whole point to switching to a positive-negative format instead of the 1-5 format.
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby Army of GOD on Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:05 pm

temporos wrote:
TheForgivenOne wrote:If i do see someone with a 4.0 rating, then obviously they aren't fun to play with.

Someone who is "above average" is "[obviously not] fun to play with?" This is completely illogical... :-s




I think he was saying in his post that a 4.5-4.9 rating now is average, so any less would mean that that player is less fun to play with. I agree...
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby natty dread on Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:41 pm

I fully support this suggestion.

Let's take a look at the current and proposed systems...

Current rating system: you can rate 1-5 which will affect the rated player's average, or leave no rating which will not affect his rating. Currently players are giving 4-5 star ratings as the "norm" because they fear upsetting the player they are rating. Some few give ratings of 3 as average. This skews the rating system, making it mostly meaningless, and discouraging people from rating.

Proposed rating system: ratings would be from -2 to +2, and the default would be average -0 - so that if you would not change your rating you would automatically give the 0 rating. If someone is an average player, his average will not change from this. This way players would only have to change the rating when a player really made an impression on them - positive or negative. The average rating would settle near 0, and exceptional players would be easy to spot from their positive ratings, also players with issues would be easy to spot from their negative ones.

This would improve the rating system in many ways: it would make the ratings more meaningful, since you would clearly have either a positive or negative rating. This would encourage people to use the ratings system more, since it wouldn't be perceived as meaningless anymore.

Also it would make leaving ratings easier, since you'd only have to change the rating when you want to give some other rating than average. This would also encourage people to use the rating system, as it would be easier -> thus it wouldn't be seen as much of a chore anymore.

The only downside I can see is that the ratings medal system would need to be changed, and I don't see a good solution for that at the moment... :-k
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby danfrank on Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:10 pm

Army of GOD wrote:I don't really get the point of the rating system.

Nice people rate consistent 5s unless someone is actually not fun to play with/against, and dicks just give out 1s unless they play with friends.

I haven't rated someone in a while now.




:lol: :lol: This is right on.. I used to be a dick but since changed my ways... I myself do not really see a reason for a rating system too. The stats of game played , win loss percentage and attendance pretty much draw all the conclusions you need. The ratings system gives a reason for someone to discriminate against..
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby temporos on Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:18 pm

Army of GOD wrote:... a 4.5-4.9 rating now is average...

According to the official instructions (which all players should be required to read before participating in their first match), a rating of 3 stars is "average." Any claim to the contrary is in violation of both the Rules and Community Guidelines for the site.

I'm a stickler for rules. They're in-place for a reason. If you disagree with a rule, then change it; don't break it. That's my policy.
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby Army of GOD on Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:11 pm

That's not really a "rule"...more a guideline. If it were a rule, half the people on the site would have their ratings removed for giving out 5s all the time.

I agree with what you and natty are saying though. If you don't rate anyone, it should automatically give 0s.
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby bluwizard on Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:22 pm

When I first started here, one of the first ratings I gave was an average (3) because that is what I honestly felt that person deserved. I was quickly berated with an angry, vulgarity laced, wall post asking why I gave such horrible ratings, and questions as to what my major malfunction was. Soon after, I realized virtually every player on the site had somewhere between 4.2 and 4.9 ratings.

I don't know why it became the norm here to give everyone 5's all the time, but if we give everyone the same score, we are essentially giving no score to anyone. That is why I now very rarely rate anyone - the system is completely broken and useless. I don't know if this would change that, but if the system is to have any value at all it (or the community mentality) needs an overhaul.

As of right now, that number beside your name is completely inconsequential...
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby TheForgivenOne on Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:50 pm

Just because having a 4.5-4.9 is the norm now, does not mean it is broken.

Once you play here for a while, you will notice that people tend to be between 4.5-4.9, and anyone below that tends to be a poor player to play with. A lot of people find that, if the person played good enough, they get all 5's. Once you migrate over to -2 - 2, as i said, you're just going to get a lot of people with 1.5-1.9. And i really think that "Not rating gives everyone 0", because that will hinder people's ratings. I've seen players who have been here since 2008, who only left a handful of ratings. Or none at all. Some people on this site truly view this as a casual gaming site. They log on, take their turns, log off. They are too busy/ not bothered enough to rate anyone.

The rating system as we see it now is always going to be skewed. Doesn't matter if we change it to you're suggestion, keep it, or even 1-10. Some people rate all 1's, and some rate all 5's until they meet someone they really disliked.
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Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby temporos on Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:18 pm

TheForgivenOne wrote:Just because having a 4.5-4.9 is the norm now, does not mean it is broken.

The current system isn't broken, it just doesn't work. A major problem I see with the current system is that while it's easy to spot a bad player, how do you spot a particularly good player? Right now, there's no way to tell the difference between an average and above-average player.

I'm noticing a lot of misunderstanding (especially on your part, ForgivenOne). Under the proposed system the ratings will naturally stabilize around 0 or "average!" Maybe this will help:

Under the current system:
  • A rating-not-left is not counted. The only ratings that count are the ones that are actively left by other players after a match.
  • The ratings stabilize very high (4.5-4.9), since the only ratings that count are the ones actively left, and most players that actively rate consistently leave perfect ratings.
  • A player's ratings are practically useless. You can be identified as "bad" or "average," but really good players cannot be spotted.
Under the proposed system:
  • A rating-not-left is counted as a 0 or "average" rating. According to the system, all players receive a rating from all other players for every match. The act of not leaving a rating is actually the same as leaving an "average" rating.
  • The ratings stabilize around 0 or "average," since all ratings (including non-ratings) count. Most players do not leave ratings, thereby creating a situation where most ratings are 0 or "average."
  • A player's ratings will mean something (as they should). A positive rating means they are an above-average player, and a negative rating means they are a below-average player.
Let me know if anything about that comparison is unclear.
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