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Points system

Postby ksslemp on Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:08 pm

Can someone please explain to me why CC has a points system that punishes high ranked player. I can't figure out the reasoning behind awarding different point values for different rankings.
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Re: Points system

Postby Darwins_Bane on Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:15 pm

if you could play a noob and get/lose 20 points or play a good player and same thing, y would you not just play the noob?
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Re: Points system

Postby SgtMadDog on Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:22 pm

Just because someone is new doesn't mean they aren't an intelligent player. With this points system it actually discourages players from welcoming all players regardless of rank to join an open game. Now all the high ranking players just play private games and tourneys with similarly ranked players. Now why should i play lower ranked players when i have to win at an 80% clip just to break even.
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Re: Points system

Postby SgtMadDog on Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:24 pm

i.e, I agree they need to fix it!

But they won't, the Admin's are a bunch of socialists who believe in redistribution of wealth.
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Re: Points system

Postby ksslemp on Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:31 pm

Well, I think they should change the formula at the least.

Just beat a newb and was awarded "3 POINTS"!!! weeeeee
Then lost to one and lost 54. Where is the fairness in that????
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Re: Points system

Postby SirSebstar on Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:49 pm

ksslemp wrote:Well, I think they should change the formula at the least.

Just beat a newb and was awarded "3 POINTS"!!! weeeeee
Then lost to one and lost 54. Where is the fairness in that????


i suggest you visit the suggestions forum and make a post there.
otherwise. a low ranker half your points should be beatable by you twice at much as he can beat you... Maybe you should better pick on someone your own size..
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Re: Points system

Postby ksslemp on Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:53 pm

i DON'T PICK MY OPPONENTS! I OPEN A GAME FOR ALL AND GET KICKED BECAUSE OF IT.

"a low ranker half your points should be beatable by you twice at much as he can beat you" REALLY?
Is this simple minded thinking the basis for the screwed up points system????

Now i understand how it came to be.
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Re: Points system

Postby SirSebstar on Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:08 pm

SgtMadDog wrote:Just because someone is new doesn't mean they aren't an intelligent player. With this points system it actually discourages players from welcoming all players regardless of rank to join an open game. Now all the high ranking players just play private games and tourneys with similarly ranked players. Now why should i play lower ranked players when i have to win at an 80% clip just to break even.


in fact highranking tournaments are not allowed, so in tournaments with highrankers a noob is free to join.. you can set a skylimit to prevent high rankers, but not the other way. So if you really want to beat highrankers, join a tournament.

@SgtMadDog are you for real? i mean you are the lowranker to me buddy. Also the elo system is widely accepted, e.g. with chess. if you know a better system, please feel free to use a suggestion form.

@
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Re: Points system

Postby ksslemp on Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:23 pm

If they want to use this warped points system then they should FORCE higher ranks to play a certain number of newbies percentage wise. otherwise it just creates rank classes.

P.S. the ELO system was created for skill games. CC hardly meets the criteria, This ain't chess!
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Re: Points system

Postby SirSebstar on Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:24 pm

in a real chess game you would also not be forced to confront a rookie by a master.. neither is it here, but cc masters often do play rookies because thy are availiable and they like the game.
also, cc is using chance, but there is a lot of skill involved.. otherwise nobody would rise at all or it would be extremely unlikely for players to maintain a (high) rank.
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Re: Points system

Postby Rodion on Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:34 pm

Excuse me, SirSebstar, but can you tell me if the option to play non-ranked games was ever suggested? If so, can you tell me what was the ruling on it (or preferably, find me the link?)

Thank you!
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Re: Points system

Postby jrh_cardinal on Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:18 pm

Rodion wrote:Excuse me, SirSebstar, but can you tell me if the option to play non-ranked games was ever suggested? If so, can you tell me what was the ruling on it (or preferably, find me the link?)

Thank you!

pretty sure it's been suggested

my guess is it was rejected because people could abuse it. You could have a couple people in the game who just want to get some good practice in, then one idiot joins and suicides on everyone for no reason at all. It would just cause more work for the mods because every time someone played poorly in a no points game the other player(s) would file a C&A report for intentionally suiciding
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Re: Points system

Postby the.killing.44 on Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:42 pm

jrh_cardinal wrote:my guess is it was rejected because people could abuse it. You could have a couple people in the game who just want to get some good practice in, then one idiot joins and suicides on everyone for no reason at all.

And how exactly is that abuse?
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Re: Points system

Postby Rodion on Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:38 pm

jrh_cardinal wrote:
Rodion wrote:Excuse me, SirSebstar, but can you tell me if the option to play non-ranked games was ever suggested? If so, can you tell me what was the ruling on it (or preferably, find me the link?)

Thank you!

pretty sure it's been suggested

my guess is it was rejected because people could abuse it. You could have a couple people in the game who just want to get some good practice in, then one idiot joins and suicides on everyone for no reason at all. It would just cause more work for the mods because every time someone played poorly in a no points game the other player(s) would file a C&A report for intentionally suiciding



I don't think that would happen often enough for this idea to be rejected.
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Re: Points system

Postby ljex on Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:53 pm

Rodion wrote:
jrh_cardinal wrote:
Rodion wrote:Excuse me, SirSebstar, but can you tell me if the option to play non-ranked games was ever suggested? If so, can you tell me what was the ruling on it (or preferably, find me the link?)

Thank you!

pretty sure it's been suggested

my guess is it was rejected because people could abuse it. You could have a couple people in the game who just want to get some good practice in, then one idiot joins and suicides on everyone for no reason at all. It would just cause more work for the mods because every time someone played poorly in a no points game the other player(s) would file a C&A report for intentionally suiciding



I don't think that would happen often enough for this idea to be rejected.


It has been suggested and rejected many times based on the idea that you have to invest a few points in learning new maps/settings to gain points in the future.
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Re: Points system

Postby jrh_cardinal on Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:56 pm

the.killing.44 wrote:
jrh_cardinal wrote:my guess is it was rejected because people could abuse it. You could have a couple people in the game who just want to get some good practice in, then one idiot joins and suicides on everyone for no reason at all.

And how exactly is that abuse?

are you serious...
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Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits.

just because it's not for points doesnt mean people are allowed to ruin your game by suiciding at everyone

Rodion wrote:I don't think that would happen often enough for this idea to be rejected.

i may be wrong, that's just my opinion. It's not rare for a suggestion to be rejected because of the extra work it would give C&A mods (that's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just a thing)
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Re: Points system

Postby MichelSableheart on Sat Aug 14, 2010 2:07 am

A player's point total should be an indication of their skill. The current point system is set up under the assumption that if you have double the points of someone else, you are 4 times as likely to win a game. In other words, if you have twice the number of points then another player, and you play that player 5 times, you should be expected to win 4 of them, and if you do, your point total shouldn't change.

A higher ranked player is not being punished for playing lower ranks. If their point totals are good indications of their skill, the higher ranked player should expect not to lose points on average. Only when their point total is higher then reflects the actual difference in ability would they lose points.

If you get a high score by specialize in certain settings, then your score won't reflect your ability outside your specialisation, and you should expect to lose points if you venture outside your specialization.
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Re: Points system

Postby SirSebstar on Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:27 am

Rodion wrote:Excuse me, SirSebstar, but can you tell me if the option to play non-ranked games was ever suggested? If so, can you tell me what was the ruling on it (or preferably, find me the link?)

Thank you!


because it was asked:
the oldest suggestion about practice games was rejected
viewtopic.php?f=471&t=1218&hilit=practice+games back in 2006

current suggestions
Points suggestions (alter win/loss points transfer method): http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=120108&hilit=non+rank+games
Please..... TWEAK the point system :http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=119242&p=2629927&hilit=non+rank+games#p2629927

sorry but thats all i wanted to know, so i did not look for any more threads. There are loads more out there though
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Re: Points system

Postby SirSebstar on Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:30 am

@Rules thank you for reinterpreting the rules..
However throwing games is not a single game where you get pissed off and try to take someone out at the cost of loosing the game, but the systematic loosing of games e.g. because you want to get low points.. Be aware though, suiciding is a good way to get your ratings lowered.
My advice do play low rank and high rank alike, but do not play low rated. you might not enjoy the game..
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Re: Points system

Postby Qwert on Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:02 am

he-he bunch of >COlonels< complain abouth points distribution. How the hell you get these rank, Luck or skill?
When you been low ranks,then you dont complain,but now when you are colonel,then you see that its not good for your rank. Im play here almost 4 years,and i never see that point are problem(dice are biger problem). If you are good,then chances for lost against low ranked,are minimal.
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NEW REVOLUTION-NEW RANKS PRESS THESE LINK viewtopic.php?f=471&t=47578&start=0
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Re: Points system

Postby SirSebstar on Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:08 am

i know. i have been playing a lot of (type of) games that are new to me. so i dropped down a lot. Now that i understand what i am doing, i climb back up.
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Re: Points system

Postby SgtMadDog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:41 pm

Using the ELO system is fine, but they would need to adjust the formula to include variables for initial troop deployment and luck of the dice. This is not factored in to the current system and makes the points system flawed. FIX IT!!!! and disallow the game cheat add-ons unless they are standard for all maps and users. This is something else not factored into the points system, in summary it has alot of issues that need to be addressed to make it fair.
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Re: Points system

Postby maasman on Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:13 pm

MichelSableheart wrote:A player's point total should be an indication of their skill. The current point system is set up under the assumption that if you have double the points of someone else, you are 4 times as likely to win a game. In other words, if you have twice the number of points then another player, and you play that player 5 times, you should be expected to win 4 of them, and if you do, your point total shouldn't change.

A higher ranked player is not being punished for playing lower ranks. If their point totals are good indications of their skill, the higher ranked player should expect not to lose points on average. Only when their point total is higher then reflects the actual difference in ability would they lose points.

If you get a high score by specialize in certain settings, then your score won't reflect your ability outside your specialisation, and you should expect to lose points if you venture outside your specialization.

Thank you for being one of the few logical people here.
ksslemp wrote:Well, I think they should change the formula at the least.

Just beat a newb and was awarded "3 POINTS"!!! weeeeee
Then lost to one and lost 54. Where is the fairness in that????

Ever think that noob is not so much of a noob? It's very fair. If you played that person a hundred times then your points would even out against him and you'll know how much better you are than him. Maybe having 5+times more points than him is not a very good measure of the gap in your skill levels, ever think of that?
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Re: Points system

Postby SgtMadDog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:36 pm

If they dont adjust the formula for all the examples i gave then might as well have a set amount for all players. if you are good then you'll win more games and your points will reflex that, if not they will reflect that skill level as well. as it is now a bad player can win 1 game out of five against a good player and still gain points which shouldnt be the case. as i read the current points/rank system was designed for games of pure skill such as chess. this is not chess, the board changes every game and luck is involved in 75% of it. A change is needed and if you dont see that then you are homophobic nazi who hates asparagus!
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Re: Points system

Postby jrh_cardinal on Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:48 pm

SgtMadDog wrote:If they dont adjust the formula for all the examples i gave then might as well have a set amount for all players. if you are good then you'll win more games and your points will reflex that, if not they will reflect that skill level as well. as it is now a bad player can win 1 game out of five against a good player and still gain points which shouldnt be the case. as i read the current points/rank system was designed for games of pure skill such as chess. this is not chess, the board changes every game and luck is involved in 75% of it. A change is needed and if you dont see that then you are homophobic nazi who hates asparagus!

first, thanks for flaming/baiting half the people on the thread.

second, no it's not perfect. In chess, there is one way to play. You play against one opponent, with the same rules (same "map" and "settings") every time. CC is totally different. There are a ton of options, and your score isn't going to reflect your ability in every option. Now if you have some simple, magic formula that will allow everyone's score to perfectly reflect their ability in every map/game type, please share.

If not, you're gonna have to choose whether you want to exploit the flaws in the scoring system and raise your score, or just play for fun; which is what this site is meant to be.
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