[Site] Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

This forum is a storehouse for all Finalized Suggestions to be periodically reviewed during Feature Updates.

Moderators: Suggestions Team, Global Moderators

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Should we change the rating system, or leave it as it is?

Yes, change it.
76
52%
No, leave it.
70
48%
 
Total votes : 146

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby Metsfanmax on Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:23 pm

Can we take another look at this? I did particularly like this suggestion.
User avatar
Lieutenant Metsfanmax
Head Thinker
Head Thinker
 
Posts: 3682
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: NY
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (2)
General Contribution (5)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby temporos on Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:32 am

Metsfanmax wrote:Can we take another look at this? I did particularly like this suggestion.

I think it was pretty much shot down by one of the mods, because he likes the status-quo.
--
The Great and Powerful T.

... What? This is a game of global conquest, isn't it? ;)
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class temporos
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:37 pm
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, United States
Medals: 5
Standard Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby stahrgazer on Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:45 am

btw, you could do the same "equalizer" thing with the current system by having the system default to 3 *** instead of "not-counted if the player doesn't feel like hitting the buttons."

The idea is theoretically good. The problem with this new idea and the current ratings system is that it involves subjectivity. You can't regulate against human choice, and you can't regulate the reasons for the choice. It's human nature: you're less likely to rate someone you are friends with with less than the highest, even if you know that friend is not as good a player as others you've played.
Image
User avatar
Captain stahrgazer
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:59 am
Location: Figment of the Imagination...
Medals: 52
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (6) Tournament Contribution (1)
General Contribution (7)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby MeDeFe on Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:58 am

stahrgazer wrote:btw, you could do the same "equalizer" thing with the current system by having the system default to 3 *** instead of "not-counted if the player doesn't feel like hitting the buttons."

Yes, I think this was already pointed out, in the end it doesn't matter which it is as long as the current absolutely fucked up system is changed.

The idea is theoretically good. The problem with this new idea and the current ratings system is that it involves subjectivity. You can't regulate against human choice, and you can't regulate the reasons for the choice. It's human nature: you're less likely to rate someone you are friends with with less than the highest, even if you know that friend is not as good a player as others you've played.

What you're pointing out is exactly what the proposed system would counteract.
In other words: What you're pointing out IS a problem for the current system, it would NOT be a noticeable problem for the proposed system.
saxitoxin wrote:Your position is more complex than the federal tax code. As soon as I think I understand it, I find another index of cross-references, exceptions and amendments I have to apply.
Timminz wrote:Yo mama is so classless, she could be a Marxist utopia.
User avatar
Major MeDeFe
 
Posts: 8098
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:48 am
Location: Follow the trail of holes in other people's arguments.
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (1)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) General Achievement (3) General Contribution (7)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby pmchugh on Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:28 pm

Good suggestion, current ratings are only useful for identifying complete idiots and making noobs feel bad.
2009-08-12 03:35:31 - Squirrels Hat: MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!
2009-08-12 03:44:25 - Mr. Squirrel: Do you think my hat will attack me?
User avatar
Major pmchugh
 
Posts: 1180
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:40 pm
Medals: 47
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2)
Tournament Achievement (3) General Achievement (5) Clan Achievement (10) General Contribution (1)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby Woodruff on Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:51 pm

temporos wrote:Concise description:
  • Migrate from a "1 to 5" star system to a "-2 to +2" star system.

Specifics/Details:
  • Right now: 1 is bad, 5 is awesome.
  • Migrate to: -2 is bad, +2 is awesome.
  • Migration should be retroactive.
  • Lack of a rating should be counted as a 0 or "average" rating.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
  • Right now, the average player rating is about 4.8 stars: well above the 3 star "average."
  • If the scale is adjusted such that "average" is 0, anything below average is negative, and anything above average is positive, the average player rating will naturally stabilize around 0.
  • If a player does not wish to leave a rating for his opponents after a match, it counts as a 0 or "average" rating.
  • This proposed system will encourage a more intuitive and reliable measure of a player's attitude, gameplay, and sociability.
  • Players would be compelled to leave a rating only if they wish to leave an above or below average rating for another player.
  • Players aren't left jaded when someone leaves them a less-than-5-star rating (i.e., everybody wins).


What we really should migrate to is a pass/fail system. Up or down. Air Force officer recommendations used to be based on what was equivalent to the "5-star" system, and it failed precisely as this one has - with rating inflation. But some time ago, the Air Force moved to the up/down or pass/fail system and it is far more fair than otherwise, and you don't see the inflation you did previously. It was far less subjective.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Woodruff
 
Posts: 4881
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27
Standard Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby stahrgazer on Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:16 pm

MeDeFe wrote:What you're pointing out is exactly what the proposed system would counteract.
In other words: What you're pointing out IS a problem for the current system, it would NOT be a noticeable problem for the proposed system.


Yes it would still be a problem; players would still rate their "less than zero" friends as +2's (instead of +5's) and people they decide not to like as -2's (instead of 1 to 3) regardless of game skill or any problem in a particular game.
Image
User avatar
Captain stahrgazer
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:59 am
Location: Figment of the Imagination...
Medals: 52
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (6) Tournament Contribution (1)
General Contribution (7)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby Metsfanmax on Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:48 pm

stahrgazer wrote:
MeDeFe wrote:What you're pointing out is exactly what the proposed system would counteract.
In other words: What you're pointing out IS a problem for the current system, it would NOT be a noticeable problem for the proposed system.


Yes it would still be a problem; players would still rate their "less than zero" friends as +2's (instead of +5's) and people they decide not to like as -2's (instead of 1 to 3) regardless of game skill or any problem in a particular game.


It's trivial to point out that ratings are subjective. It has nothing to do with the value of this suggestion.
User avatar
Lieutenant Metsfanmax
Head Thinker
Head Thinker
 
Posts: 3682
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: NY
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (2)
General Contribution (5)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby JoshyBoy on Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:14 am

I fail to see the point of this suggestion, it seems like it's just people being pedantic.
drunkmonkey wrote:I honestly wonder why anyone becomes a mod on this site. You're the whiniest bunch of players imaginable.

Ron Burgundy wrote:Why don't you go back to your home on Whore Island?
User avatar
Lieutenant JoshyBoy
 
Posts: 3778
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 6:04 pm
Location: In the gym. Yeah, still there.
Medals: 67
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Battle Royale Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (4) Tournament Contribution (17)
General Contribution (2)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby Joodoo on Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:07 am

If we're asking for something like +1/-1 to a person's rating then we're just going back and forth between the original feedback system and current ratings system, because the feedback format was (# of positive feedback - # of negative feedback).
A slight tweak to how this should work may be better.
TheSaxlad wrote:The Dice suck a lot of the time.

And if they dont suck then they blow.

:D
User avatar
Lieutenant Joodoo
 
Posts: 1639
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:19 am
Location: Greater Toronto, Canada
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (1)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:24 am

JoshyBoy wrote:I fail to see the point of this suggestion, it seems like it's just people being pedantic.


You fail to see that the current rating system is completely meaningless, given that something like 90% of the average ratings fall between 4.5 and 5.0?
User avatar
Lieutenant Metsfanmax
Head Thinker
Head Thinker
 
Posts: 3682
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: NY
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (2)
General Contribution (5)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby MeDeFe on Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:25 am

JoshyBoy wrote:I fail to see the point of this suggestion, it seems like it's just people being pedantic.

The current system is not working because the ratings are hugely inflated. Implementing this suggestion would go a very long way towards solving that.

That's the point.
saxitoxin wrote:Your position is more complex than the federal tax code. As soon as I think I understand it, I find another index of cross-references, exceptions and amendments I have to apply.
Timminz wrote:Yo mama is so classless, she could be a Marxist utopia.
User avatar
Major MeDeFe
 
Posts: 8098
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:48 am
Location: Follow the trail of holes in other people's arguments.
Medals: 21
Standard Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (1)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) General Achievement (3) General Contribution (7)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby JoshyBoy on Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:29 am

Metsfanmax wrote:
JoshyBoy wrote:I fail to see the point of this suggestion, it seems like it's just people being pedantic.


You fail to see that the current rating system is completely meaningless, given that something like 90% of the average ratings fall between 4.5 and 5.0?


No, I see that. I could have told you that. What I fail to see, is how the proposed changes fix it.

The old feedback system was great (and I really miss it :( ), apart from the one problem of moderating it.
drunkmonkey wrote:I honestly wonder why anyone becomes a mod on this site. You're the whiniest bunch of players imaginable.

Ron Burgundy wrote:Why don't you go back to your home on Whore Island?
User avatar
Lieutenant JoshyBoy
 
Posts: 3778
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 6:04 pm
Location: In the gym. Yeah, still there.
Medals: 67
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Battle Royale Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (4) Tournament Contribution (17)
General Contribution (2)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby JoshyBoy on Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:30 am

MeDeFe wrote:
JoshyBoy wrote:I fail to see the point of this suggestion, it seems like it's just people being pedantic.

The current system is not working because the ratings are hugely inflated. Implementing this suggestion would go a very long way towards solving that.

That's the point.


Which specific suggestion are we talking about here?
drunkmonkey wrote:I honestly wonder why anyone becomes a mod on this site. You're the whiniest bunch of players imaginable.

Ron Burgundy wrote:Why don't you go back to your home on Whore Island?
User avatar
Lieutenant JoshyBoy
 
Posts: 3778
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 6:04 pm
Location: In the gym. Yeah, still there.
Medals: 67
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Battle Royale Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (4) Tournament Contribution (17)
General Contribution (2)

Re: Normalize Player Ratings (Average = 0)

Postby pmchugh on Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:03 am

The idea in the OP helps to fix two current problems with the ratings system but has 1 major flaw.

1. New players find it hard to get a decent rating as one bad rating drags their score down. Their score will take less of a hit from initial bad ratings as they are getting far more ratings at average in the beggining.

2. Players are rated too highly, this point has already been argued.

The problem is that people simply do no rate enough to make it viable. Think of someone like magleplunka or highlander attack, with thousands of games and such a low percentage of people rating it is almost certain their rating would be like 0 or +/-0.1
2009-08-12 03:35:31 - Squirrels Hat: MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!
2009-08-12 03:44:25 - Mr. Squirrel: Do you think my hat will attack me?
User avatar
Major pmchugh
 
Posts: 1180
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:40 pm
Medals: 47
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2)
Tournament Achievement (3) General Achievement (5) Clan Achievement (10) General Contribution (1)

PreviousNext

Return to Submitted Suggestions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron
Login