[GL] Game Log 2.0

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Re: The log should list all attacks

Postby fumandomuerte on Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:20 pm

You can take snapshots of the map with BOB...
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Re: The log should list all attacks

Postby ic on Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:50 pm

pmchugh wrote:Im pretty sure this is on the to-do list.


I didn't see it on the list but I could have missed it if the title/description was different enough from what I was expecting.

nagerous wrote:I don't think this should be implemented as it takes away some of the strategy of memorising what the map looked like - taking away from some of the gameplay.

However, this would be good in freestyle speed games, when reviewing cheating and abuse cases. Back in the day and I'm sure this still takes place, a lot of the top players were rigging eight player escalating games so that certain players would win and 'break records' and this was partly done by slyly attacking enemy stacks so that the user could then sweep and kill everyone and if this feature was implemented, this would prevent this abuse from continuing.. or at least catch the culprits in action.


Even if you consider memorizing the map a strategy, this is still an issue.

The simplest example I can think of right now: Someone has three troops on a territory. They reinforce with three troops on that territory. Surrounding this territory are territories containing one army from all other players. The log says they ended their turn. Your turn is next. You see they have three troops on that territory. The log indicates nothing. They obviously lost three troops attacking. Who did they attack?

The problem becomes progressively worse the more players there are and the more events are separated by turn order.
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EDIT: I checked the todo list again and it is discussed viewtopic.php?p=19837 although I'm unclear as to what the final result will be.
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Re: The log should indicate how many troops were lost

Postby ic on Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:59 pm

fumandomuerte wrote:That will kill some of the magic of foggy games.


It can be masked similarly to the territory names for foggy games (if I understand you correctly).

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EDIT: I checked the todo list again and it is discussed viewtopic.php?p=19837 although I'm unclear as to what the final result will be.
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Re: The log should indicate how many troops were lost

Postby fumandomuerte on Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:10 pm

Even if you do that... In multiplayer games everybody will know if you lost a stack, that will kill feudal, peloponnesian war, poland, and several other maps.
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Re: The log should indicate how many troops were lost

Postby Irather Nottell on Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:58 am

Then leave fog games the way they are, but in no fog games it would be nice to be able to see what happened while you were gone as if you were there the whole time.
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Re: The log should list all attacks

Postby iamkoolerthanu on Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:58 am

nagerous wrote:I don't think this should be implemented as it takes away some of the strategy of memorising what the map looked like - taking away from some of the gameplay.


If it is a non-fog game, who ever said that players had to memorize an entire map, times however many games they are playing... I do not really agree with you when you say its part of the game play, and I think this idea should be implemented... CC games are basically interpreting the act of war. You have armies or troops attack and defending against the other 'generals' armies. In a real war, you would know that yellow had attacked you, didn't take the territory, but did take a few troops. It would be properly documented, and you would without a doubt know that you have been under attack, and by whom you were under attack by.

fumandomuerte wrote:You can take snapshots of the map with BOB...


Taking a snapshot of each game every round and for every game, and then having to review those shots each turn for every game... that would increase the time taken for each game by at least 5 minutes, and most player (including myself) does not have the time or the patience to take that much time on each game... which is why having the log updated would be a great option in my opinion
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more game log

Postby caymanmew on Fri May 21, 2010 9:43 pm

Concise description:
add in defended territory into game log

Specifics:
when red attacks blue but does not take the territory game log would say
(blue defended reds assaulted on Vancouver) or something along those lines

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
make game log more informing and able you to see who attacked you if your stack goes down to a lower number
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show attack failed on game log

Postby ArkaAP on Fri May 28, 2010 9:35 am

Concise description:
  • I believe that if the attack failed were logged it would become more easy and "realistic" to understand what other player have done and their general strategy.

Specifics:
  • Suppose a plyaer start playing and attack from x to y..as soon as the action change (attack from x to z or from anywhere else to anyhwere else) the log show player nnn attacked province y from x and failed. (or something like that)

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
  • As it is, I found it difficult to understand what attack other player have tried and failed, this diminish the possibility to understand what player are planning and their general strategy
  • Also if a player you are cooperating is expected to do some attacks it can be difficult to understand if he actually tried and failed or simply did not tried.
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Re: show attack failed on game log

Postby Dako on Fri May 28, 2010 9:59 am

I think being able to understand what the opponent did is a part of the strategy and that is what differs good players from bad ones.
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Re: show attack failed on game log

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri May 28, 2010 10:02 am

I think this idea is included in the infamous 'game log 2.0' suggestion...


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Re: show attack failed on game log

Postby sm8900 on Fri May 28, 2010 10:39 am

I agree with this suggestion. we need some actual record of in-game actions, not just taking of territories.
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Re: show attack failed on game log

Postby ArkaAP on Fri May 28, 2010 3:14 pm

Dako wrote:I think being able to understand what the opponent did is a part of the strategy and that is what differs good players from bad ones.



I think that what you say si correct, but it works with the current system only if you stay all time online...if you can connect only a few time a day,in many player game it is currently almost impossible to really understand what other player did....
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Re: show attack failed on game log

Postby Dako on Fri May 28, 2010 3:15 pm

I play CC twice a day. And yes, it is possible to see what the other people have done before your turn. Harder for singles games, easier for team games - still possible for both.
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Re: show attack failed on game log

Postby jrh_cardinal on Fri May 28, 2010 4:32 pm

NO!!

This takes away from strategy, how is that a good thing? Right now, winning a CC game is based partly on luck of the drop, dice, and spoils (if you're playing spoils) and partly on strategy. One big part of strategy is hiding what your real strategy is from other players. If you take that away, the game is based on luck even more than it already is, which is NOT a good thing.

No offense, but the two people that are in support of this suggestion so far are a cook and a private, two people that have certainly not got the strategy part down very well. Get someone who's usually an officer to support your suggestion, then we can talk.
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Re: show attack failed on game log

Postby Lubawski on Fri May 28, 2010 7:33 pm

I agree with Dako and JRH here. This is a bad idea. You can always tell what happened everywhere (even in fog of war games) if you know how to read the log and take snapshots. It does take some time (and some intelligence) but that's what separates the great players from the good players. If you want to learn from what people did (which I think is your intent here, and great intentions), what I suggest is finding a mentor to help you. There is the society of cooks as well as a few clans who have social groups where they mentor players and help them learn game play. EMPIRE is one of those clans as are the Spanking Monkis. Arka, you seem like you want to learn and improve, which is an admiral quality in a person. Find someone to help you along and you will see huge improvements.
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FOW alteration

Postby Halmir on Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:18 pm

Concise description:
  • Don't know if it's just me but it really bugs me that when an enemy conqurs one of my territories in a Fog Of War game, the Log only records it as: "Asshat assaulted ? from ? and conquered it from Halmir

Specifics/Details:
  • It was my territory at the start of the round then I lost it fair enough. My suggestion though is that the log shows who has conquered which of my lands. I'm not too bothered to know precisely where the attack came from (it could be nice, but not vital). However on an 8 player map I could come back to find I've lost a dozen lands and I won't be certain who has taken which ones, if I can no longer see that region/continent etc

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
  • Knowing who has taken which land helps me know where enemies are strongest - and most of all this just makes plain sense! My troops would get off a last radio message telling me that the Green army is attacking them, I'm sure!
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Re: FOW alteration

Postby Woodruff on Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:55 am

Halmir wrote:Concise description:
  • Don't know if it's just me but it really bugs me that when an enemy conqurs one of my territories in a Fog Of War game, the Log only records it as: "Asshat assaulted ? from ? and conquered it from Halmir

Specifics/Details:
  • It was my territory at the start of the round then I lost it fair enough. My suggestion though is that the log shows who has conquered which of my lands. I'm not too bothered to know precisely where the attack came from (it could be nice, but not vital). However on an 8 player map I could come back to find I've lost a dozen lands and I won't be certain who has taken which ones, if I can no longer see that region/continent etc

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
  • Knowing who has taken which land helps me know where enemies are strongest - and most of all this just makes plain sense! My troops would get off a last radio message telling me that the Green army is attacking them, I'm sure!


Amen!
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Re: FOW alteration

Postby greenoaks on Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:12 am

this was discussed over 2 years ago.

remember, the search function is your friend.
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Re: FOW alteration

Postby jefjef on Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:55 am

The mystery is part of FOG. You don't want mystery than play sunny games.
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Re: FOW alteration

Postby Woodruff on Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:57 am

jefjef wrote:The mystery is part of FOG. You don't want mystery than play sunny games.


Sure, but there's "mystery"...and then there's "silly and illogical". The current implementation is "silly and illogical" because it doesn't make any sense that an army would have no idea at all who attacked them or, even more likely, what direction they were attacked from.
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Re: FOW alteration

Postby greenoaks on Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:01 am

Woodruff wrote:
jefjef wrote:The mystery is part of FOG. You don't want mystery than play sunny games.


Sure, but there's "mystery"...and then there's "silly and illogical". The current implementation is "silly and illogical" because it doesn't make any sense that an army would have no idea at all who attacked them or, even more likely, what direction they were attacked from.

try to understand it with your human side
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Re: FOW alteration

Postby jefjef on Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:08 am

Woodruff wrote:
jefjef wrote:The mystery is part of FOG. You don't want mystery than play sunny games.


Sure, but there's "mystery"...and then there's "silly and illogical". The current implementation is "silly and illogical" because it doesn't make any sense that an army would have no idea at all who attacked them or, even more likely, what direction they were attacked from.


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Re: FOW alteration

Postby Woodruff on Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:57 am

jefjef wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
jefjef wrote:The mystery is part of FOG. You don't want mystery than play sunny games.


Sure, but there's "mystery"...and then there's "silly and illogical". The current implementation is "silly and illogical" because it doesn't make any sense that an army would have no idea at all who attacked them or, even more likely, what direction they were attacked from.


The whole art of war consists of guessing at what is on the other side of the hill.
- Duke of Wellington


An army (ANY army) that consistently uses this as their plan cannot possibly avoid utter defeat.
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Re: FOW alteration

Postby jefjef on Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:13 pm

Woodruff wrote:
jefjef wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
jefjef wrote:The mystery is part of FOG. You don't want mystery than play sunny games.


Sure, but there's "mystery"...and then there's "silly and illogical". The current implementation is "silly and illogical" because it doesn't make any sense that an army would have no idea at all who attacked them or, even more likely, what direction they were attacked from.


The whole art of war consists of guessing at what is on the other side of the hill.
- Duke of Wellington


An army (ANY army) that consistently uses this as their plan cannot possibly avoid utter defeat.


No true. Custer guessed wrong once. Stonewall guessed right many times. FOG of war. If ya can't handle it play sunny.
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Re: FOW alteration

Postby Crazyirishman on Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:23 pm

If you know FOW then you'll be able to tell where your enemies have attacked you from a lot of the time if you pay close attention to the log.
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