Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferring'

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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:14 pm

So your idea was to make your suggestion worse so that people could criticize it?

If you don't change it to say that the card is received at the end of the turn, I'm just going to make my own suggestion that does say that, because it's far superior.
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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Darwins_Bane on Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:36 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Darwins_Bane wrote:saying that something should be stopped is all well and good, but there has been no real suggestion on what should be done to replace the current system.


Sure there has been. It's in the first post of this thread.

And before going off like you did, why don't you read my previous post about the consequences of implementing this suggestion. Don't get me wrong, when someone lets time run out to get a better cash or not take a card, i foe them.


Your scenario doesn't make sense. Players can't hold five cards during their assault phase.


Yes you can, you begin your turn and you have 5 cards. then you have to cash. In freestyle escalating, a rather cheap strategy has come around ( mostly in speed games), whereby you start your turn, then the round ends, so you still have 5 cards, but everyone else had to cash. how would your suggestion fit into this?
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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:39 pm

Darwins_Bane wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Darwins_Bane wrote:saying that something should be stopped is all well and good, but there has been no real suggestion on what should be done to replace the current system.


Sure there has been. It's in the first post of this thread.

And before going off like you did, why don't you read my previous post about the consequences of implementing this suggestion. Don't get me wrong, when someone lets time run out to get a better cash or not take a card, i foe them.


Your scenario doesn't make sense. Players can't hold five cards during their assault phase.


Yes you can, you begin your turn and you have 5 cards. then you have to cash. In freestyle escalating, a rather cheap strategy has come around ( mostly in speed games), whereby you start your turn, then the round ends, so you still have 5 cards, but everyone else had to cash. how would your suggestion fit into this?


Well, this suggestion doesn't change anything about the status quo in that regard, because it only changes the time at which you receive new cards you earn.
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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby stahrgazer on Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:22 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:Well, this suggestion doesn't change anything about the status quo in that regard, because it only changes the time at which you receive new cards you earn.

It would change the status quo in that regard. Under this suggestion, you would not be able to avoid getting a card just by not hitting "end" at the end of your turn. If you failed to hit "end" you'd get it at the start of your next turn, which would auto-force the cash.

Not assaulting to avoid a spoil is one thing. Using a program glitch to avoid getting the spoil is correctable. This suggestion is aimed at correcting that correctable glitch. This suggestion also ensures that someone who qualifies for a spoil but whose system messes up, or whose time ran out, could still get their earned spoils. Both of these reasons are "pro" a change.

The only con would be, people who want to cheat the system by avoiding taking the spoil after they technically won a spoil, would be unable to continue to cheat the system that way. That's only a con if you like a strategy that cheats the system.
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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:09 pm

stahrgazer wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:Well, this suggestion doesn't change anything about the status quo in that regard, because it only changes the time at which you receive new cards you earn.

It would change the status quo in that regard. Under this suggestion, you would not be able to avoid getting a card just by not hitting "end" at the end of your turn. If you failed to hit "end" you'd get it at the start of your next turn, which would auto-force the cash.

Not assaulting to avoid a spoil is one thing. Using a program glitch to avoid getting the spoil is correctable. This suggestion is aimed at correcting that correctable glitch. This suggestion also ensures that someone who qualifies for a spoil but whose system messes up, or whose time ran out, could still get their earned spoils. Both of these reasons are "pro" a change.

The only con would be, people who want to cheat the system by avoiding taking the spoil after they technically won a spoil, would be unable to continue to cheat the system that way. That's only a con if you like a strategy that cheats the system.


You seem to have misread the scenario. In the case in question, the player never assaulted a territory, and thus he never earned a card. Therefore your suggestion doesn't change what happens in that case.
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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Queen_Herpes on Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:42 am

Darwins_Bane wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Darwins_Bane wrote:saying that something should be stopped is all well and good, but there has been no real suggestion on what should be done to replace the current system.


Sure there has been. It's in the first post of this thread.

And before going off like you did, why don't you read my previous post about the consequences of implementing this suggestion. Don't get me wrong, when someone lets time run out to get a better cash or not take a card, i foe them.


Your scenario doesn't make sense. Players can't hold five cards during their assault phase.


Yes you can, you begin your turn and you have 5 cards. then you have to cash. In freestyle escalating, a rather cheap strategy has come around ( mostly in speed games), whereby you start your turn, then the round ends, so you still have 5 cards, but everyone else had to cash. how would your suggestion fit into this?


I didn't think of that! I'm going to miss my turns in freestyle escalating now! Thanks for the tip!
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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby eddie2 on Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:57 am

Yes you can, you begin your turn and you have 5 cards. then you have to cash. In freestyle escalating, a rather cheap strategy has come around ( mostly in speed games), whereby you start your turn, then the round ends, so you still have 5 cards, but everyone else had to cash. how would your suggestion fit into this?


no you seem to have miss read this sug. this sug is not about players not playing this sug is about players who play there shot and dont recieve there cards for 2 reasons.

1)have a crash and times out.
2)abuse the system by timing out and not recieving a fifth card being forced 2 cash next shot.

for your thing on freestyle maybe start a new sug stating if they do this they lose the cards. because if you cash them and go 2 deploy you loose the troups why not if you don,t even try to cash them. you should lose the cards.
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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby ljex on Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:08 pm

NO NO NO NO NO...this would change the game of fs speed completely for the worse please don't do this...also if people really dont want a card then they can just not attack, so there would still be a way to not card in escalating which is what you seem like you are talking about. Also let me be the one to say that i will take the first set every time if i can in a fs escalating speed...it means im ahead cards on everyone else, dont have to race to get the higher cash and will have more troops/cards when it matter.

How it would change speed fs...if i dont have to end to get a card, i can just attack till the end of the rounnd and still get a card, would make it way less skill as you dont have to worry as much about the clock and you would have an extra second or two to attack.
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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby stahrgazer on Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:37 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
stahrgazer wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:Well, this suggestion doesn't change anything about the status quo in that regard, because it only changes the time at which you receive new cards you earn.

It would change the status quo in that regard. Under this suggestion, you would not be able to avoid getting a card just by not hitting "end" at the end of your turn. If you failed to hit "end" you'd get it at the start of your next turn, which would auto-force the cash.

Not assaulting to avoid a spoil is one thing. Using a program glitch to avoid getting the spoil is correctable. This suggestion is aimed at correcting that correctable glitch. This suggestion also ensures that someone who qualifies for a spoil but whose system messes up, or whose time ran out, could still get their earned spoils. Both of these reasons are "pro" a change.

The only con would be, people who want to cheat the system by avoiding taking the spoil after they technically won a spoil, would be unable to continue to cheat the system that way. That's only a con if you like a strategy that cheats the system.


You seem to have misread the scenario. In the case in question, the player never assaulted a territory, and thus he never earned a card. Therefore your suggestion doesn't change what happens in that case.


If a player doesn't assault, player doesn't earn spoil; you're correct, I'm not suggesting that should change.
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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby eddie2 on Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:00 pm

ljex wrote:NO NO NO NO NO...this would change the game of fs speed completely for the worse please don't do this...also if people really dont want a card then they can just not attack, so there would still be a way to not card in escalating which is what you seem like you are talking about. Also let me be the one to say that i will take the first set every time if i can in a fs escalating speed...it means im ahead cards on everyone else, dont have to race to get the higher cash and will have more troops/cards when it matter.

How it would change speed fs...if i dont have to end to get a card, i can just attack till the end of the rounnd and still get a card, would make it way less skill as you dont have to worry as much about the clock and you would have an extra second or two to attack.


ljex plz read what i said freestyle has nothing 2 do with this sug all i told him to do was make a sug if he was not happy
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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Queen_Herpes on Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:57 pm

ljex wrote:NO NO NO NO NO...this would change the game of fs speed completely for the worse please don't do this...also if people really dont want a card then they can just not attack, so there would still be a way to not card in escalating which is what you seem like you are talking about. Also let me be the one to say that i will take the first set every time if i can in a fs escalating speed...it means im ahead cards on everyone else, dont have to race to get the higher cash and will have more troops/cards when it matter.

How it would change speed fs...if i dont have to end to get a card, i can just attack till the end of the rounnd and still get a card, would make it way less skill as you dont have to worry as much about the clock and you would have an extra second or two to attack.



I still like your idea! It is a great plan to miss your turn in a freestyle escalating speed game!
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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby ljex on Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:56 pm

Queen_Herpes wrote:
ljex wrote:NO NO NO NO NO...this would change the game of fs speed completely for the worse please don't do this...also if people really dont want a card then they can just not attack, so there would still be a way to not card in escalating which is what you seem like you are talking about. Also let me be the one to say that i will take the first set every time if i can in a fs escalating speed...it means im ahead cards on everyone else, dont have to race to get the higher cash and will have more troops/cards when it matter.

How it would change speed fs...if i dont have to end to get a card, i can just attack till the end of the rounnd and still get a card, would make it way less skill as you dont have to worry as much about the clock and you would have an extra second or two to attack.



I still like your idea! It is a great plan to miss your turn in a freestyle escalating speed game!


Well the simple fact is that it is not a good idea to miss cards in freestyle escalating speed games...also if you really wanted too you could just not attack so I fail to see how your argument has any validity
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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Queen_Herpes on Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:59 pm

ljex wrote:
Queen_Herpes wrote:
ljex wrote:NO NO NO NO NO...this would change the game of fs speed completely for the worse please don't do this...also if people really dont want a card then they can just not attack, so there would still be a way to not card in escalating which is what you seem like you are talking about. Also let me be the one to say that i will take the first set every time if i can in a fs escalating speed...it means im ahead cards on everyone else, dont have to race to get the higher cash and will have more troops/cards when it matter.

How it would change speed fs...if i dont have to end to get a card, i can just attack till the end of the rounnd and still get a card, would make it way less skill as you dont have to worry as much about the clock and you would have an extra second or two to attack.



I still like your idea! It is a great plan to miss your turn in a freestyle escalating speed game!


Well the simple fact is that it is not a good idea to miss cards in freestyle escalating speed games...also if you really wanted too you could just not attack so I fail to see how your argument has any validity

My argument?

It was your great idea! You use it well in escalating freestyle speed! I like it! And it is not cheating to miss your turn in an escalating freestyle speed game, it seems to be a great idea!
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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby ljex on Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:20 pm

Queen_Herpes wrote:
ljex wrote:
Queen_Herpes wrote:
ljex wrote:NO NO NO NO NO...this would change the game of fs speed completely for the worse please don't do this...also if people really dont want a card then they can just not attack, so there would still be a way to not card in escalating which is what you seem like you are talking about. Also let me be the one to say that i will take the first set every time if i can in a fs escalating speed...it means im ahead cards on everyone else, dont have to race to get the higher cash and will have more troops/cards when it matter.

How it would change speed fs...if i dont have to end to get a card, i can just attack till the end of the rounnd and still get a card, would make it way less skill as you dont have to worry as much about the clock and you would have an extra second or two to attack.



I still like your idea! It is a great plan to miss your turn in a freestyle escalating speed game!


Well the simple fact is that it is not a good idea to miss cards in freestyle escalating speed games...also if you really wanted too you could just not attack so I fail to see how your argument has any validity

My argument?

It was your great idea! You use it well in escalating freestyle speed! I like it! And it is not cheating to miss your turn in an escalating freestyle speed game, it seems to be a great idea!


All it does is make you not have to end to get a spoil...that would completely change the game of freestyle speed escalating for the worse in my opinion, and i think that is the same for many others. Also it is an awful plan to miss your turn in a freestyle escalating speed turn, in fact i can remember many games i have lost because i missed a card for some reason or the other...so im not sure why you think it is a good play to miss a turn.
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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Bruceswar on Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:12 am

Holy shit me and Ljex agree! This has to be one of the worst ideas ever. Making it easier to get a card is totally insane. Here are a few examples...

1) Player A takes his turn and half way into he he gets called away to work. He does not finish his turn and when he returns he find the time has ran out. He should not get a card in this situation

2) In a speed game a player is racing to see how quick he can cash and get a card. With this suggestion he can cash and attack in 2 seconds max. Who cares about ending now? He still gets a card when he should have missed his card. Part of the strategy is to be able to get a card while cashing and not missing.

3) Player A attacks and wishes not to end and get a card. This could save his life in a game. Seems perfectly fine to me. If you cannot take the fact he just out foxed you, then you have issues. In general most all times it is a good idea to get a card.

4) Any player who is careless enough not to end their turn in time, or simply cannot do it in time, should not be awarded a card.

And to quote foxglove:

Foxglove wrote:Seems like a very poor idea to me. How can you plan a turn in a team game (or standard game!) if you don't know what your cards are?
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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby TheForgivenOne on Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:32 am

The only real reason I see that this was suggested, is because of the Nuke tactic being used of not finishing to get the 5th card, or some poor soul timed out by accident. For the nuke tactic, if it creates enough of a hu-bub, a possible rule could we worked out, or it could be fit into unwritten rules.
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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Metsfanmax on Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:20 am

Bruceswar wrote:Holy shit me and Ljex agree! This has to be one of the worst ideas ever. Making it easier to get a card is totally insane. Here are a few examples...

1) Player A takes his turn and half way into he he gets called away to work. He does not finish his turn and when he returns he find the time has ran out. He should not get a card in this situation


Why shouldn't he get a card? He completed all the requirements you need to fulfill in order to earn a card, at least according to the rulebook of the game we all know and love.

2) In a speed game a player is racing to see how quick he can cash and get a card. With this suggestion he can cash and attack in 2 seconds max. Who cares about ending now? He still gets a card when he should have missed his card. Part of the strategy is to be able to get a card while cashing and not missing.


I don't understand this one - this would just change gameplay, not make it worse. It's not a reason not to do it.

3) Player A attacks and wishes not to end and get a card. This could save his life in a game. Seems perfectly fine to me. If you cannot take the fact he just out foxed you, then you have issues. In general most all times it is a good idea to get a card.


Same as above. This just removes this piece of "strategy;" there's no reason it's inherently better to have that option available to people.

4) Any player who is careless enough not to end their turn in time, or simply cannot do it in time, should not be awarded a card.


Again, why not?

And to quote foxglove:

Foxglove wrote:Seems like a very poor idea to me. How can you plan a turn in a team game (or standard game!) if you don't know what your cards are?


This flaw was already corrected - I said that this suggestion only makes sense if you get the card at the end of your turn, not at the beginning of your next turn, and that if OP doesn't change this part of it (which no one likes), then I'll create my own suggestion.
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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby TheForgivenOne on Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:52 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
2) In a speed game a player is racing to see how quick he can cash and get a card. With this suggestion he can cash and attack in 2 seconds max. Who cares about ending now? He still gets a card when he should have missed his card. Part of the strategy is to be able to get a card while cashing and not missing.


I don't understand this one - this would just change gameplay, not make it worse. It's not a reason not to do it.


So what kind of skill is it to cash, deploy and attack with 1 second left? For some reason, I think this could possibly create more stalemate games in this game type. As before if a player missed a card, they get targeted more, But if everyone has 5 cards... People will probably just deploy and end.
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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby ljex on Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:42 pm

TheForgivenOne wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
2) In a speed game a player is racing to see how quick he can cash and get a card. With this suggestion he can cash and attack in 2 seconds max. Who cares about ending now? He still gets a card when he should have missed his card. Part of the strategy is to be able to get a card while cashing and not missing.


I don't understand this one - this would just change gameplay, not make it worse. It's not a reason not to do it.


So what kind of skill is it to cash, deploy and attack with 1 second left? For some reason, I think this could possibly create more stalemate games in this game type. As before if a player missed a card, they get targeted more, But if everyone has 5 cards... People will probably just deploy and end.


It would totally make the game worse and tbh give better players more of an advantage as they would be more likely to exploit the loophole of not having to end to get a card. Would also make it more annoying when people go for last second kills and don't get it but at the same time don't get penalized for not ending and making a bad play like they should. Quite simply there is no reason for this suggestion to be implemented in anything but nuclear spoils. If you cant take the time to end your turn after you have attacked to get a card then you prob have bigger things to worry about than conquer club. And for nuclear just rate people cheap tactics, this would cause way more bad than good.
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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Metsfanmax on Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:21 pm

Maybe I don't understand freestyle well enough, but why are you implying that there's some sort of advantage to not ending your turn?
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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby ljex on Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:41 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:Maybe I don't understand freestyle well enough, but why are you implying that there's some sort of advantage to not ending your turn?


currently there is a disadvantage if this were implemented it would make it that you could make riskier plays in terms of time because you could still get a card even if you didnt end your turn
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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Metsfanmax on Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:16 pm

The fact that people wait until there's seconds left in the game and then move is a disadvantage inherent to freestyle itself. If this is what turns out to be the best style of play, then it's just a change to what freestyle currently is - there's no inherent reason why it's worse.
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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby ljex on Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:40 am

Metsfanmax wrote:The fact that people wait until there's seconds left in the game and then move is a disadvantage inherent to freestyle itself. If this is what turns out to be the best style of play, then it's just a change to what freestyle currently is - there's no inherent reason why it's worse.


It promotes a further unfair advantage and makes for a worse game with less skill...not sure how you feel that dosnt make the game worse
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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:43 am

ljex wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:The fact that people wait until there's seconds left in the game and then move is a disadvantage inherent to freestyle itself. If this is what turns out to be the best style of play, then it's just a change to what freestyle currently is - there's no inherent reason why it's worse.


It promotes a further unfair advantage and makes for a worse game with less skill...not sure how you feel that dosnt make the game worse


I don't understand what the "unfair advantage" is. Anyone can play using the style you stated. Why will some players have an unfair advantage?

And no, it won't be less skill - it will just be a different type of skill.
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Re: Reprogram to eliminate spoils cheap tactics by 'deferrin

Postby ljex on Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:50 am

Metsfanmax wrote:
ljex wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:The fact that people wait until there's seconds left in the game and then move is a disadvantage inherent to freestyle itself. If this is what turns out to be the best style of play, then it's just a change to what freestyle currently is - there's no inherent reason why it's worse.


It promotes a further unfair advantage and makes for a worse game with less skill...not sure how you feel that dosnt make the game worse


I don't understand what the "unfair advantage" is. Anyone can play using the style you stated. Why will some players have an unfair advantage?

And no, it won't be less skill - it will just be a different type of skill.


Well noobs would be more likely to end their turns like it should be than skilled players who know the loophole...thus it would create an advantage for good players.


Also it would be way less skill...what is harder attack till the time runs out or figure out how much time you need to make a kill/make sure you end at the last second if you took more time than anticipated. Thus there would be less skill in the game something that im not a fan of...especially considering how little this actually helps fix any problems i can see.
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