Dark Continent (Colonial Africa) [Quenched]

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Re: Colonial Africa (The Bison King)

Postby vinaya on Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:16 am

looks interesting. :roll:

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Re: Colonial Africa (The Bison King)

Postby The Bison King on Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:58 am

vinaya wrote:looks interesting. :roll:

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:-s excuse me, but what?



I'd call you an obvious troll multi but I don't know what this is even?
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Re: Colonial Africa (The Bison King)

Postby The Bison King on Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:42 am

Does anyone else have anything to add before this goes to gameplay?
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Re: Colonial Africa (The Bison King)

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:13 am

Ah crap, my apologies as I did not see the updated version. Everything looks good for the GP workshop by me, but obviously there you're going to have to work out a bunch of stuff. Names are not great, but you've got time and I'll see what I can do.

On a side note, Zululand was more a coastal province off to the eastern side of South Africa... it bordered Mozambique as well. And speaking of South Africa, maybe split it in two between the Boer republics and the British Capetown?

Also, if you have room, a Mediterranean/Suez Canal/Red Sea Naval Superiority might be pretty cool as well.

Anyway, let me run it by Tack and hopefully this map will move today.
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Re: Colonial Africa (The Bison King)

Postby TaCktiX on Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:44 pm

The overall idea is solid and there's a good foundation for Gameplay. I'd say my only complaint is the relative mess that the connecting lines and impassables look like. I realize that you do a watercolor draft with a near-finished graphical look, but if you could make the lines cleaner I'm cool with it rolling on into the Gameplay Workshop.
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Re: Colonial Africa (The Bison King)

Postby theBastard on Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:39 am

the connection between Europe and Africe is still unbalanced. what about to do Naval Superiority also in Mediteraean See, these could revert to neutral and one way attack from Europe to Africa and from Europe to Europe. and do all borders in Europe imassable...
if the European bases will be starting points (also starting points)...
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Re: Colonial Africa (The Bison King)

Postby The Bison King on Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:28 am

TaCktiX wrote:The overall idea is solid and there's a good foundation for Gameplay. I'd say my only complaint is the relative mess that the connecting lines and impassables look like. I realize that you do a watercolor draft with a near-finished graphical look, but if you could make the lines cleaner I'm cool with it rolling on into the Gameplay Workshop.

Wait seriously? this is being held back because of line cleanliness? As long as you can tell what attacks what, that's all that matters at this point, right? what parts specifically are causing confusion for you?

theBastard wrote:the connection between Europe and Africe is still unbalanced. what about to do Naval Superiority also in Mediteraean See, these could revert to neutral and one way attack from Europe to Africa and from Europe to Europe. and do all borders in Europe imassable...
if the European bases will be starting points (also starting points)...


A fair point but I don't think another Naval Superiority is the answer. I think maybe South Africa having a 2 way connection with Great Britain would be good.

Also the European terts. will be start positions but they will not be your sole start position. You will also be assigned random African regions.
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Re: Colonial Africa (The Bison King)

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:37 pm

I think Tack just wants and idea of the graphic direction you plan on taking this. You don't have to do a full blown watercolor, but something that conveys the feel of what the map will look like.
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Re: Colonial Africa (The Bison King)

Postby The Bison King on Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:30 pm

looking at my other maps should give you a pretty good idea of what to expect.

I'm not making a 3rd "sample" version of the map, I don't have that kind of time any more. There will be this flexible, easily modified map to hammer out gameplay, and then when we get to graphics I'm going to create a very large (25x30ish) Water color version. I'll import that to photoshop where I'll make final adjustments on the final version.
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Re: Colonial Africa (The Bison King)

Postby Joodoo on Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:47 am

I think it might be symbolic if you include Liberia, as it's one of the few countries that remained independent during colonialism on the continent (Ethiopia being the other one, and I've seen you've had it up there already.
I'm not sure about the Middle East part of the map, are they part of the "Scramble for Africa" too?
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Re: Colonial Africa (The Bison King)

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:29 pm

The Bison King wrote:looking at my other maps should give you a pretty good idea of what to expect.

I'm not making a 3rd "sample" version of the map, I don't have that kind of time any more. There will be this flexible, easily modified map to hammer out gameplay, and then when we get to graphics I'm going to create a very large (25x30ish) Water color version. I'll import that to photoshop where I'll make final adjustments on the final version.

Unfortunately working in watercolor may become a hindrance then.


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Re: Colonial Africa (The Bison King)

Postby The Bison King on Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:41 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:
The Bison King wrote:looking at my other maps should give you a pretty good idea of what to expect.

I'm not making a 3rd "sample" version of the map, I don't have that kind of time any more. There will be this flexible, easily modified map to hammer out gameplay, and then when we get to graphics I'm going to create a very large (25x30ish) Water color version. I'll import that to photoshop where I'll make final adjustments on the final version.

Unfortunately working in watercolor may become a hindrance then.


--Andy

How so? It hasn't been on any of the 3 other maps I've worked on. In fact this time it's way smarter cause usually I work exclusively off the watercolor, this time I had the foresight to do a sloppy comp first which I can change around with out hurting anything.

This happens every single time I make a map, people say "oh, I think doing it in watercolors is a bad idea", but I do it any way and it turns out fine. Can we please skip the non-sense and put this in gameplay so I can get to work already?
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Re: Colonial Africa (The Bison King)

Postby Industrial Helix on Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:32 pm

After speaking with the Cartos, it seems we've arrived at a consensus. What we would like to see is some sort of graphical theme at this point, though not a full blown watercolor. Theme needs to match the concept and period depicted to create a cohesive map. Many feel that continued use of the dreamy tufts of translucent color are not suitable for the theme of Colonial Africa.

That said, I don't think you won't be able to use watercolors as all. I much prefer the medium to photoshop colors and the sterility of computer perfection... but I think you should experiment with style a bit on this map to give it a theme that reflects the colonial world. Personally, my inclination is to go the military route and drive hard the symbols and stylings of 19th century political and military maps. But that's just what I'm thinking, hopefully it will jog some ideas for you.

There was also some mention of the map's gameplay resembling Eastern Hemisphere or South Africa 1885... for me, at least, this isn't a huge problem but I figure you ought to know how the others are feeling about the gameplay at this point. You might want to change some things around and experiment.
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Re: Colonial Africa (The Bison King)

Postby MarshalNey on Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:09 am

The Bison King wrote: In fact this time it's way smarter cause usually I work exclusively off the watercolor, this time I had the foresight to do a sloppy comp first which I can change around with out hurting anything.


I completely agree that your approach in making a 'sloppy' draft first before doing the watercolor is far better for the Foundry process.

As Helix said, however, there is some concern about the 'dreamy' watercolor style that you use, when done in connection with imperial adventures in Africa. Also, for my part, I don't want this map to be a re-hash of Eastern Hemisphere/South Africa 1885 (particularly the former) although I think that some minor changes could make the gameplay more distinct- so don't worry overly much about that.

I just want to add that these suggestions are to save you (and us) a lot of frustration down the road, especially when you get to Graphics. So hopefully they don't come off as obstructive but rather constructive. :)

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Re: Colonial Africa (The Bison King)

Postby The Bison King on Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:18 pm

I suppose all that is fair. With out spending too much time on detail here's what I'm thinking. The legend will be be enclosed in a fancy frame off to the left. Similar to how it was done on Thyseneal but neater. For inspiration I'm referencing the Great map maker Joan Blaeu (2nd map below). His work predates this era by about 200 years but his details and flourish is timeless. On previous maps I've always completely filled a territories shape with color. With this one I'll layer the inside border with color but leave the interior mostly blank. A good example of this is how I did Germany on the third map below. I'll also use the same technique that I used on the water for this map. Muddy Earth and Sepia tones will dominate the color scheme.

Click image to enlarge.
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I see what you are saying about similarities to Eastern Hemishpere and South Africa. The name "Naval Superiority" is a pretty obvious one. Of course in Eastern hemisphere you can only bombard with it and in this one you can actually invade. Granted I've been using Eastern hemisphere as an inspiration for this map, but I believe there will be more than enough that will keep this map from feeling like a re-hash.
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