Three Kingdoms of Korea [Quenched]

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby natty dread on Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:58 am

They're different enough. Colourblind checks check out.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby Riskismy on Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:57 am

natty_dread wrote:They're different enough. Colourblind checks check out.


How do you do that, if I may?

Maybe I'm imagining things here, but didn't I see a version with the continents fully colored in with their respective colors? That should make things more clear, I would think.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby natty dread on Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:22 am

Riskismy wrote:How do you do that, if I may?


I keep some colourblind mice in my locker. Every time I make a map I take them out and make them look at it, then they tell me if they find it hard to understand.

Lately, I've become lazy and just use GIMP's colourblind filters, though.

Maybe I'm imagining things here, but didn't I see a version with the continents fully colored in with their respective colors? That should make things more clear, I would think.


I don't think clarity is really a problem here, except maybe for some of the striped areas. Fully coloured continents don't fit the ancient asian style of the map.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby natty dread on Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:30 am

Ok anyway I tweaked the Tang colour a bit:

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby Dako on Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:31 am

I am not colorblind, but tang and silla are similar to me. You might have a good contrast or brightness level, but not all people have it high as well. Maybe some other color? More yellowish?


FASTPOSTED - yeah, looks better now. Thanks.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby Riskismy on Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:41 am

Nods. Way better!

Edit: Oh, and thanks for the gimp tip :)
Hope you still play with the mice every now and then.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby natty dread on Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:23 am

I play with rodents all the time.

Anyway, I fixed some of the border lines, mainly that weird looking angle in Lelang, and redrew some smudgy ones. I don't want the borders to be too clean or uniform though, they should have that hand-drawn calligraphy look to them.

I also rearranged some territory labels slightly.

For now, I think that's all the graphical work I should do on this, I think it's time to focus more on the gameplay.

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:55 am

I wonder if you could make them cracked somehow. Kind of like when the screen print of a t-shirt comes off. I've tried to do that before in photoshop, but I just can't seem to swing it. If you put something over or under it, you end up having to drop the opacity. And I'm thinking of crisp black lines, but they're broken up and cracked. Not faded. Thoughts?
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby natty dread on Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:03 am

Yeah, I did try something like that already. The problem is that if you apply it full force, it makes the map really unclear and hard to read. Also if it's only applied to borders but not to other colouring, it looks weird...

So there actually already is a layer of "wear" added to the map, but I had to adjust the opacity way down to keep the map readable.

Anyway, like I said, I think it would be best to address details like this in graphics.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:07 pm

I'm really digging this map. I'm glad to see the area finally in development. Nice work.


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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby natty dread on Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:15 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:I'm really digging this map. I'm glad to see the area finally in development. Nice work.


Glad you like it!
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby theBastard on Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:52 pm

this yellow-brown colour for tang is good.
and the stripes, hm for me is everything pretty clear. and I must say, it is often when I need to read any maps several times to understand everything... lol
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby natty dread on Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:33 am

Added bonus area names in chinese/korean writing.

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:08 pm

To be honest i prefer the map without the chinese or korean characters, but it's just my personal opinion. ;)

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:15 pm

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby natty dread on Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:29 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:To be honest i prefer the map without the chinese or korean characters, but it's just my personal opinion. ;)


Yeah, let's discuss that again in graphics ;)

Personally I think they bring some extra regional flavour to the map. I mean, if this was a real Korean map, all the territory names would be in chinese characters... but since we can't really do that, I think adding some chinese characters to the legend / title is a good compromise.

Thanks for the draft stamp (it's my first!) Now on to gameplay discussion.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:00 pm

Hooray!

I echo Natty's sentiments on the Chinese/Korean characters. I like them.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby Victor Sullivan on Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:06 pm

Junks? Is that really what those boats were called? Strange... Anywho, before commenting on gameplay, I have to understand where you're coming from first: What is your reasoning behind the bonus structure? I must say, it's rather unique. And I assume the striped territories overlap bonus-wise?
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:20 pm

Congrats natty & IH!!
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea

Postby natty dread on Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:06 am

Thanks Isaiah.

Reasoning behind the bonus structure is that it reflects the political situation at the time.

IH wrote more about this, but here's the jist of it:

General Idea: Three Kingdoms Korea was primarily about proto-states evolving into full fledged empires. Hence, the importance of capitals in this bonus scheme. Strong holds indicate the importance of castles at the time. Almost everything is build your own bonus, giving players to ample opportunity to be creative in gametime solutions. Silla eventually conquered all of Korea, an remains the most powerful area on the map. Goguryeo has power, but slow growth. Japan and China's influences on Korea (and Korea's influences on them) are also reflected in this map.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v4.3

Postby natty dread on Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:52 am

Ok, to get the gameplay discussion started, let's start with starting territories...

We have 45 territories total. Capitals and castles obviously need to start neutral, so that takes of 11... bringing it to 34. Gaya should have 2 neutrals at least to keep anyone from starting with the Gaya bonus. Wa is only 2 territories so maybe it should also have 1 neutral?

So this would bring the starting territories down to 31. Hm, 32 would be better, so is there anywhere we could add a territory?

Also...

IH wrote:I'm thinking Hanju ought to border Ungjin Baekje is a little bottled up there.


Sorry IH, I seem to have missed this. Maybe a bridge there?


edit: on the neutrals, perhaps we can make each gaya & wa territory into a starting position, so we wouldn't need neutrals there... but that's only 6 territories, so in 7 and 8 player games someone could still start with them... perhaps we could make some other 2 territories into starting positions?
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v4.3

Postby natty dread on Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:11 am

Bridge added: (I'll probably do a fancier bridge once we get to graphics)

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Another possible solution for Wa/Gaya:

Set 2 neutrals in Gaya, 2 starting positions in Gaya and 2 starting positions in Wa. This way, in 2 player games, either both get a +1 bonus or neither one gets it. In 5-8 player games someone could still drop a bonus in either but it should be less likely in those games...
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v5

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:11 am

I just never drew in a connection for Hanju and Ungjin because I was unsure if I really wanted it at the time.

Well, the starting position thing isn't good because Wa has a negative bonus with any other capital... its not a the greatest spring board. Whereas Gaya doesn't have that and has a very quick opportunity to expand into the other Gaya territories as well.

Option A: Neutral 1s for Honshu
Option B: Starting positions in Wa and Gaya, 6 total.
Option C: not sure... I'm running out of ideas here for that.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v5

Postby natty dread on Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:02 am

Industrial Helix wrote:I just never drew in a connection for Hanju and Ungjin because I was unsure if I really wanted it at the time.

Well, the starting position thing isn't good because Wa has a negative bonus with any other capital... its not a the greatest spring board. Whereas Gaya doesn't have that and has a very quick opportunity to expand into the other Gaya territories as well.


#-o right, didn't think of that...

So how about this: both Wa territories start neutral, 4 starting positions for Gaya?


Also, can we up the Wa bonus to 2? 1 seems a bit unattractive, no one will want to take it because you can't hold any capitals with it.


Hey, another option would be to change the Gaya bonus to +3 for all Gaya territories. It would be harder to get but it would give a better bonus, by 1.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v5

Postby Riskismy on Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:53 pm

I like the bonus scheme (that you don't absolutely have to have all territories to get a bonus). However, I'd rephrase the legend to read 'the capital', as opposed to naming each territory. Took me several minutes to locate the first territory and home in on the idea. It conveys the same idea, only now you don't have to look around the map (so much) to understand it.
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