[Login] Automatically use HTTPS on Login

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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby basic_man2010_20 on Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:06 am

okay and im sure theres probley somewhay to put a shell into the pictures now aint there? either way they cant block shells so accoutns can be hacked
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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby bedub1 on Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:22 am

If you are on a public hotspot that doesn't have encryption enabled, and login to CC, there is a high probability that another user on the wifi could find your password for CC. And if you use your password for other things, like your bank account, he could get into it. All because CC wouldn't enable encryption.

http://gawker.com/#!5744229/the-faceboo ... s-possible

The performance overhead is minor—zippy Gmail, for example, uses HTTPS for everything

By default, Facebook sends your access credentials in the clear, with no encryption whatsoever. Switching to HTTPS is important because a browser extension called Firesheep has made it especially easy for anyone sharing your open wireless network—at cafe or conference, for example—to sniff your credentials and freely access your account. One blogger sitting in a random New York Starbucks was able to steal 20-40 Facebook identities in half an hour. HTTPS solves this longstanding problem by encrypting your login cookies and other data; in fact the inventor of Firesheep made the software to encourage companies like Facebook to finally lock down their systems.


http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/a ... cks/70044/
By January 5, it was clear that an entire country's worth of passwords were in the process of being stolen right in the midst of the greatest political upheaval in two decades.

Basically, the Tunisian government, through internet service providers, tried to steal the Facebook login info (usernames and passwords) of everyone in Tunisia. They did this through keyloggers, a piece of software that records the keys you hit on your computer.

When Facebook realized this was going on, they quickly switched the entire Tunisian site to https, the encrypted version of the HTTP protocol on which the web is built. (As an aside, we wonder why they don't do this by default for everyone. Https is slower, but it would sitll be more secure.)
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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby Darwins_Bane on Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:52 am

I think you're being a little over dramatic here. But just so you don't have a heart attack, a couple things to keep in mind. Hacking doesn't work how you all think. It's a lot of hard work to do. I would say greater than 99% of the cases on this website where people are "hacked", are in fact just cases where the person who logged into the account without permission really got the password from someone else. My guess would be that on login, when you hit it, the password characters that you type in would immediately use the encryptpass function built in to php. This is a one way function, meaning, that once encrypted, it cannot be unencrypted. What happens is on your first login, the encrypted version of your password is stored in the database, and then every time you try to login, it just checks whether the encryted password is the same one as in the database. This means that, in transit, and at any point along the line, your password is encrypted. The only way for someone to then hack your account is to be able to get into your router, which is extremely hard to do if you secure it in any way. https can be used if you want, but if you are concerned with your password security, don't be.
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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby basic_man2010_20 on Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:55 am

but what you dont get is SHELLS allow you access to the cpanel wich in turn lets them into the database. acess to that database they could unbann people or give them free preemium for years on end bann people and all that other good stuff. even if its not in a cpanel then they can still upload a shell and get acess to the database.
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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby bedub1 on Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:03 pm

For people that seem to know what they are talking about, I'm completely flabbergasted at why people are arguing with me. This is in fact the elephant in the room.

Image

Anybody want to guess what my password was? (I changed it specifically for this test).

Yes...that's right...my password was "securepassword".

I captured this using a program called Wireshark. It used to be called Ethereal. Firesheep is a little program that automates this to make it easier on would be hackers.

Passwords sent over HTTP are NOT secure.
Last edited by bedub1 on Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby Mr_Adams on Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:14 pm

You should use that to hack into LackAttack's account and change his turtle picture. :lol:
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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby bedub1 on Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:16 pm

Mr_Adams wrote:You should use that to hack into LackAttack's account and change his turtle picture. :lol:

No. I'm not a hacker, I'm a security and network expert. I defend against hackers.
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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby Darwins_Bane on Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:53 pm

bedub1 wrote:For people that seem to know what they are talking about, I'm completely flabbergasted at why people are arguing with me. This is in fact the elephant in the room.

Image

Anybody want to guess what my password was? (I changed it specifically for this test).

Yes...that's right...my password was "securepassword".

I captured this using a program called Wireshark. It used to be called Ethereal. Firesheep is a little program that automates this to make it easier on would be hackers.

Passwords sent over HTTP are NOT secure.


I would like to see you do that with a computer that is not on the same router as the one where your password is being entered. That has to do with cookies if I'm right. If not, then I would agree that there needs to be a change. All I'm saying is you don't even need to convert to HTTPS to actually secure your password.
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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:55 pm

While I'm not impressed by bedub's attempt to hack his own account, I must admit the argument about connections at public hotspots is compelling.
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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby bedub1 on Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:02 pm

Darwins_Bane wrote:
bedub1 wrote:For people that seem to know what they are talking about, I'm completely flabbergasted at why people are arguing with me. This is in fact the elephant in the room.

Image

Anybody want to guess what my password was? (I changed it specifically for this test).

Yes...that's right...my password was "securepassword".

I captured this using a program called Wireshark. It used to be called Ethereal. Firesheep is a little program that automates this to make it easier on would be hackers.

Passwords sent over HTTP are NOT secure.


I would like to see you do that with a computer that is not on the same router as the one where your password is being entered. That has to do with cookies if I'm right. If not, then I would agree that there needs to be a change. All I'm saying is you don't even need to convert to HTTPS to actually secure your password.

It doesn't have to do with cookies. I ran a network packet stiffer to watch all packet flows.

You want me to hack a router on the path between me and CC? NO. (My tracert runs comcast.net all the way to texas before it hits rackspace's routers)
rackspace-bbr.dfw1.comcast.net [75.149.230.242] <--- Interesting...rackspace uses comcast?

You want me to find an unsecured wireless access point/public hotspot and watch all the traffic and snoop for passwords? NO.

I believe I've successfully proven my point. It's not even hard to deploy...given it's basically ALREADY SETUP. I'm not asking for the entire website to be redesigned in Flash or something. I've been using HTTPS for everything for some time now and I haven't seen any bugs. It's also plenty fast. I use clickable maps and it keeps up just fine.

Darwins_Bane wrote:My guess would be that on login, when you hit it, the password characters that you type in would immediately use the encryptpass function built in to php. This is a one way function, meaning, that once encrypted, it cannot be unencrypted. What happens is on your first login, the encrypted version of your password is stored in the database, and then every time you try to login, it just checks whether the encryted password is the same one as in the database. This means that, in transit, and at any point along the line, your password is encrypted.

That's a guess, and an interesting one, but just plain wrong.
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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby blakebowling on Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:17 pm

basic_man2010_20 wrote:but what you dont get is SHELLS allow you access to the cpanel wich in turn lets them into the database. acess to that database they could unbann people or give them free preemium for years on end bann people and all that other good stuff. even if its not in a cpanel then they can still upload a shell and get acess to the database.

I'll tell you what, send me a PM with my password in it, and I will stop criticizing your "SHELLS in files argument"

bedub1 wrote:
Darwins_Bane wrote:
bedub1 wrote:For people that seem to know what they are talking about, I'm completely flabbergasted at why people are arguing with me. This is in fact the elephant in the room.

Image

Anybody want to guess what my password was? (I changed it specifically for this test).

Yes...that's right...my password was "securepassword".

I captured this using a program called Wireshark. It used to be called Ethereal. Firesheep is a little program that automates this to make it easier on would be hackers.

Passwords sent over HTTP are NOT secure.


I would like to see you do that with a computer that is not on the same router as the one where your password is being entered. That has to do with cookies if I'm right. If not, then I would agree that there needs to be a change. All I'm saying is you don't even need to convert to HTTPS to actually secure your password.

It doesn't have to do with cookies. I ran a network packet stiffer to watch all packet flows.

You want me to hack a router on the path between me and CC? NO. (My tracert runs comcast.net all the way to texas before it hits rackspace's routers)
rackspace-bbr.dfw1.comcast.net [75.149.230.242] <--- Interesting...rackspace uses comcast?

You want me to find an unsecured wireless access point/public hotspot and watch all the traffic and snoop for passwords? NO.

I believe I've successfully proven my point. It's not even hard to deploy...given it's basically ALREADY SETUP. I'm not asking for the entire website to be redesigned in Flash or something. I've been using HTTPS for everything for some time now and I haven't seen any bugs. It's also plenty fast. I use clickable maps and it keeps up just fine.

Darwins_Bane wrote:My guess would be that on login, when you hit it, the password characters that you type in would immediately use the encryptpass function built in to php. This is a one way function, meaning, that once encrypted, it cannot be unencrypted. What happens is on your first login, the encrypted version of your password is stored in the database, and then every time you try to login, it just checks whether the encryted password is the same one as in the database. This means that, in transit, and at any point along the line, your password is encrypted.

That's a guess, and an interesting one, but just plain wrong.

bedub is right. Providing someone has raw access to your packets (which they have whenever they are on the same WIRELESS network as you, or if they re-route traffic across their machine, or a router they control) they are easily able to sniff through those packets and determine any and all information sent to the internet. However, other than aforementioned internet cafe's, and those with unsecured networks, who would ever be on the same wireless network with someone trying to intercept information from them.

Also, passwords are stored using a hash (because encryption is unrealistic and a PITA for server-side encrypting). Some hashes can be very secure, however, none are un-crackable. Hashes can't be reversed, but given enough time, and knowing the hash method used, the password, or other original input can be determined.

Encryption is on the same principal, being that it is used for security. However anything that is encrypted, can be decrypted. It is very easy if you have the encryption key (which, BTW, is sent over the network when the session is created), however it can still be done without the key, just not in a realistic time frame.

The only downside I see for forcing HTTPS is that some mobile carriers have problems with it on their smartphones. My point still remains that if you are smart, your chances of being hacked are virtually the same on HTTP as HTTPS.
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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby bedub1 on Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:43 pm

I can confirm tmobile and the android based Google nexus One works fine with HTTPS and conquerclub. I just successfully logged in via it.
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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby basic_man2010_20 on Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:58 pm

blakebowling wrote:
basic_man2010_20 wrote:but what you dont get is SHELLS allow you access to the cpanel wich in turn lets them into the database. acess to that database they could unbann people or give them free preemium for years on end bann people and all that other good stuff. even if its not in a cpanel then they can still upload a shell and get acess to the database.

I'll tell you what, send me a PM with my password in it, and I will stop criticizing your "SHELLS in files argument"


okay so you want me to do this i will try to get incontact with someone i know over in teh jiddle east thats a hacker and hacks mafia sites via shells. i will have him try shells and things for the site see how secure this site really is?
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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby blakebowling on Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:12 pm

basic_man2010_20 wrote:
blakebowling wrote:
basic_man2010_20 wrote:but what you dont get is SHELLS allow you access to the cpanel wich in turn lets them into the database. acess to that database they could unbann people or give them free preemium for years on end bann people and all that other good stuff. even if its not in a cpanel then they can still upload a shell and get acess to the database.

I'll tell you what, send me a PM with my password in it, and I will stop criticizing your "SHELLS in files argument"


okay so you want me to do this i will try to get incontact with someone i know over in teh jiddle east thats a hacker and hacks mafia sites via shells. i will have him try shells and things for the site see how secure this site really is?

Yes, Yes I do. Send me my exact password in a private message. I'm calling your bluff.
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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby basic_man2010_20 on Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:14 pm

yes i have just hit a perosn up on msn and he will be on later to look around.
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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby basic_man2010_20 on Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:14 pm

im w says
hey thanks for adding me. i have a quick question to ask you
Stephen says
alright
Tim w says
okay so ive been playing on an online risk game called conquerclub, there was a suggestion to make the entire site HTTP's instead of just http. i support that and i told them why, as without it shells and things can be uploaded and can get peoples usernames passwords and all that info. now one of teh moderaters/helpers for teh site told me to message him with his password and he will agree with me
so i was wondering would it be possable for you to get that info for me so that they will realize that it is in fact possable
Stephen says
Shell wouldnt be the cause of shells being uploaded to the site. HTTPS is just to secure your details more when purchasing stuff.
Shell would be uploaded probably because of bad coding etc. Is there anything in the game that allow uploads of files?
Tim w says
well i know that it allows for photobucket pics but it dont allow .swf.
Stephen says
Well then the game shoudl be fine from Shell Attacks unless there some scode that isnt filled / uploading.
ill have to sign up in a bit and check around.
Tim w says
okay well teh site is http://www.conquerclub.com
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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby Woodruff on Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:11 pm

blakebowling wrote:Yes, Yes I do. Send me my exact password in a private message. I'm calling your bluff.


It's "ILovePeteWeber", isn't it?
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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:12 pm

basic_man2010_20 wrote:im w says
hey thanks for adding me. i have a quick question to ask you
Stephen says
alright
Tim w says
okay so ive been playing on an online risk game called conquerclub, there was a suggestion to make the entire site HTTP's instead of just http. i support that and i told them why, as without it shells and things can be uploaded and can get peoples usernames passwords and all that info. now one of teh moderaters/helpers for teh site told me to message him with his password and he will agree with me
so i was wondering would it be possable for you to get that info for me so that they will realize that it is in fact possable
Stephen says
Shell wouldnt be the cause of shells being uploaded to the site. HTTPS is just to secure your details more when purchasing stuff.
Shell would be uploaded probably because of bad coding etc. Is there anything in the game that allow uploads of files?
Tim w says
well i know that it allows for photobucket pics but it dont allow .swf.
Stephen says
Well then the game shoudl be fine from Shell Attacks unless there some scode that isnt filled / uploading.
ill have to sign up in a bit and check around.
Tim w says
okay well teh site is http://www.conquerclub.com


Lulz. Is this guy for real?
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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby QoH on Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:27 pm

He might be for real, but I doubt he's from "teh jiddle east"
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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby blakebowling on Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:31 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
basic_man2010_20 wrote:im w says
hey thanks for adding me. i have a quick question to ask you
Stephen says
alright
Tim w says
okay so ive been playing on an online risk game called conquerclub, there was a suggestion to make the entire site HTTP's instead of just http. i support that and i told them why, as without it shells and things can be uploaded and can get peoples usernames passwords and all that info. now one of teh moderaters/helpers for teh site told me to message him with his password and he will agree with me
so i was wondering would it be possable for you to get that info for me so that they will realize that it is in fact possable
Stephen says
Shell wouldnt be the cause of shells being uploaded to the site. HTTPS is just to secure your details more when purchasing stuff.
Shell would be uploaded probably because of bad coding etc. Is there anything in the game that allow uploads of files?
Tim w says
well i know that it allows for photobucket pics but it dont allow .swf.
Stephen says
Well then the game shoudl be fine from Shell Attacks unless there some scode that isnt filled / uploading.
ill have to sign up in a bit and check around.
Tim w says
okay well teh site is http://www.conquerclub.com


Lulz. Is this guy for real?

If he is I'm having the internet disconnected.
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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby basic_man2010_20 on Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:09 pm

im not 100% on where hes from but his names stephan he has a web server actualy. and yes hes for real
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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby Metsfanmax on Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:41 am

basic_man2010_20 wrote:im not 100% on where hes from but his names stephan he has a web server actualy. and yes hes for real


I was asking if you are for real. You went on for like two pages about how shell scripts could be used to hack into the CPanel, and then contacted your hacker buddy and he said you were wrong. And you posted that for everyone to see.
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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby bedub1 on Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:10 am

Metsfanmax wrote:
basic_man2010_20 wrote:im not 100% on where hes from but his names stephan he has a web server actualy. and yes hes for real


I was asking if you are for real. You went on for like two pages about how shell scripts could be used to hack into the CPanel, and then contacted your hacker buddy and he said you were wrong. And you posted that for everyone to see.

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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby chipv on Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:56 am

Just seen this suggestion, great idea (for login).
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Re: Turn HTTP into HTTPS on login

Postby basic_man2010_20 on Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:50 am

no actually he said he would check around theres still ways to hack without shells if i am incorrect. as most ways are the .swf wich they dont allow.
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