jobiwan blitzaholic (warned)

[Kinnison]

Let's dot the i's and cross the t's here.

1 - Blitz playing quads with cooks or other low rankers is not against any rule. You can argue that is imoral, but not ilegal.

2 - Blitz sitting only the games that concern his persona is not against any rule. You can argue that is selfish, imoral, but not ilegal.

3 - The fact that Blitz is still doing those things is not absurd at all. If he thinks he didn't do anything wrong, he has no reason to behave differently. Granted, if admin/mods think he is punishable, the fact that he kept doing it will probably be an aggravating circumstance, but that's a (small) risk he's assuming.

4 - Blitz only broke 1 rule here, which was joining public (non-tournament) games for Jobiwan. This one doesn't even need to be investigated as he confessed (page 1).

5 - You could try to argue that him joining tournament games for Jobiwan when he knew Jobiwan would deadbeat them constitutes some sort of infraction, but that is pretty damn hard to prove. Unless he was PMed/walled by Jobiwan saying he wouldn't be able to continue playing, only way to produce proof against Blitz would be through a lobotomy.

In the end, Blitz should only be held responsible for "4" (joining public games for Jobiwan). And, if I learned anything about how C&A forum works when judging prominent premium community members, everything will end with a slap on the wrist.

You neglect to add the possibility (unproven, possibly unprovable) of 6: jobiwan's account JOINING new tournaments while deadbeating out of several already. Who actually signed up for the tournaments? Of course, once IN the tournaments, it's perfectly LEGAL to join the games for them.

I ask this: Is it reasonable to believe that someone having extreme difficulty finding enough time to take turns, relying on team-mates to take team games, in the process of deadbeating out of several tournaments... Would continue to sign up for MORE tournaments?

I don't know when these tournaments started, or when jobiwan's deadbeating started... I'm no mod, no hunter... but this question has been hinted at in the debate. Someone has to ask it.

I don't know if Blitz is guilty. I doubt it, because it seems such a transparent way to screw up. But a lot of "smart" people throughout history have screwed up in ways that, in hindsight, seem like silly errors to make. I think the full investigation should be made, so Blitz can either be proved innocent or caught, as appropriate. I'll hope for the former.

[Bruceswar]

His last post was on the 6th... he started missing on the 10th... so we can assume he joined them all.

[Fruitcake]

Let's dot the i's and cross the t's here.

1 - Blitz playing quads with cooks or other low rankers is not against any rule. You can argue that is imoral, but not ilegal.

2 - Blitz sitting only the games that concern his persona is not against any rule. You can argue that is selfish, imoral, but not ilegal.

3 - The fact that Blitz is still doing those things is not absurd at all. If he thinks he didn't do anything wrong, he has no reason to behave differently. Granted, if admin/mods think he is punishable, the fact that he kept doing it will probably be an aggravating circumstance, but that's a (small) risk he's assuming.

4 - Blitz only broke 1 rule here, which was joining public (non-tournament) games for Jobiwan. This one doesn't even need to be investigated as he confessed (page 1).

5 - You could try to argue that him joining tournament games for Jobiwan when he knew Jobiwan would deadbeat them constitutes some sort of infraction, but that is pretty damn hard to prove. Unless he was PMed/walled by Jobiwan saying he wouldn't be able to continue playing, only way to produce proof against Blitz would be through a lobotomy.

In the end, Blitz should only be held responsible for "4" (joining public games for Jobiwan). And, if I learned anything about how C&A forum works when judging prominent premium community members, everything will end with a slap on the wrist.

Neatly summed up right up until the last line and a half. Blitz is, in many respects, only following a style I openly advocated when I used to play alongside junior ranks. Just two differences. Firstly, all, and I mean all, of those players are now Sergent 1st class at the very least (many are medium level officers) and have held those ranks long after they have finished playing alongside me. I mention this as it does have an oblique bearing on the character of Blitz. If you read Bones' signature, on the previous page of this thread, he quotes Blitz. This quote is taken from an open post he made when attacking me for this practice.

When he indulged in an orgy of self glorification on attaining conquerer I attacked him for using these methods, as usual his acolytes gathered round and protected their master (whilst on their knees I do not know), I left it. However, it does seem a bit rich that he would seem to be now abusing even that system, which, all said and done does sit on the edge of legality, a fact I have never argued against.

The reason I truly believe I need to mention this point is not to renew the attack on Blitzs's high level hypocrisy. We know he suffers from this already. It is purely because I think he is a complete wanker and deserves public humiliation.

Thank you and so long.

[Army of GOD]

rodion put it best. A warning is due.

[Rodion]

Ljex - I never said they should be treated differently. I just said I've seen a fair share of cases in which people were clearly guilty (well, that's my opinion) and due punishment end up either with a slap on the wrist or outright cleared for the most ilegitimate reasons (such as a lot of friends saying nothing was wrong because they "knew him" and they would "never do that"). Without mentioning names (because I don't want to jab anyone in particular, just the system), I've seen someone get to general by winning 5 thrown Luxembourg games against a brig/colonel. That event led to an uprising here, with the winner of the Lux games also being accused of a Peloponnesian War scandal. There was abundant proof, enough for a pretty big punishment if you ask me. It all ended with a slap on the wrist ("do not do this again"). The guy who threw the Luxembourg games left totally unpunished, if I recall correctly.

I'm just saying this Blitz thing will likely have a similar end (doesn't mean I think it should end like this).

[alster]

4 - Blitz only broke 1 rule here, which was joining public (non-tournament) games for Jobiwan. This one doesn't even need to be investigated as he confessed (page 1).

IMO this isn't a big deal. If people play team games regularly, this is pretty much a convenience thing to do. Fair enough, the rule is clear and this should be avoided, but I don't think it's a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I would be surprised if any regular team game player hasn't formally breached this rule at one point or another in their CC careers.

[eddie2]

2 - Blitz sitting only the games that concern his persona is not against any rule. You can argue that is selfish, imoral, but not ilegal.

lol plz read what he has said properly he is signing him up to these games and playing them. while d/beating the other games.

your point would be valid apart from this one fact.

[gannable]

Fruitcake
"he reason I truly believe I need to mention this point is not to renew the attack on Blitzs's high level hypocrisy. We know he suffers from this already. It is purely because I think he is a complete wanker and deserves public humiliation."




jury says -

violation of the rules - inconclusive

charge of complete wanker - irrefutable

[eddie2]

hum is this another twist.

[jpcloet]

In a good sign of faith, Blitz should ask for a block on him and J, and then replace him in all their team tournaments.

[Bones2484]

violation of the rules - inconclusive

Blitz admitted to it already. It's proven.

[eddie2]

leolou has now started taking his turns in tourney games

[Woodruff]

2 - Blitz sitting only the games that concern his persona is not against any rule. You can argue that is selfish, imoral, but not ilegal.

Yes and no. What you say is true, to the extent that you've covered. However, IF Blitz is joining Jobiwan into tournament games, isn't Blitz then responsible for seeing those tournament games through in Jobiwan's absence? I would suggest very strongly that he is. After all, he is then CAUSING the deadbeat, not Jobiwan.

[ljex]

Ljex - I never said they should be treated differently. I just said I've seen a fair share of cases in which people were clearly guilty (well, that's my opinion) and due punishment end up either with a slap on the wrist or outright cleared for the most ilegitimate reasons (such as a lot of friends saying nothing was wrong because they "knew him" and they would "never do that"). Without mentioning names (because I don't want to jab anyone in particular, just the system), I've seen someone get to general by winning 5 thrown Luxembourg games against a brig/colonel. That event led to an uprising here, with the winner of the Lux games also being accused of a Peloponnesian War scandal. There was abundant proof, enough for a pretty big punishment if you ask me. It all ended with a slap on the wrist ("do not do this again"). The guy who threw the Luxembourg games left totally unpunished, if I recall correctly.

I'm just saying this Blitz thing will likely have a similar end (doesn't mean I think it should end like this).

For the farming issue it is standard policy to warn people that it is against the rules first before any punishment is given, he was warned and he did stop. Also there is precedent to say that farming when trying for medals not points is ok, though I am not a fan of that one it is there in the B00060 case.

As for the thrown games we all saw that but if someone says they didn't throw the game and were "playing angry" which entails attacking anything and everything on the first turn there isn't much cc can do over 5 games. There are players who play that way every game so can cc punish people for playing bad when they are good? It would open a lot of doors for punishment of people for things that they should not be punished for. I would have liked to see a punishment on this because I thought it was clear, but it was not the black and white issue you make it out to be, as there were other things that needed to be considered.

[40kguy]

im pretty sure what blitz did was illegal.

[greenoaks]

In a good sign of faith, Blitz should ask for a block on him and J, and then replace him in all their team tournaments.

in a good sign of faith Blitz should ask for a point reset

then we can have a forum game on how long it takes him to prove he truly is the conquerer of us all

[Rodion]

Blitz would get those points back. A point reset would actually punish the community, as they'd have to play against a great player with the cost-benefit of playing against a private 1st class. It would also be good for Blitz's teammates, as they'd play alongside a great player with the cost-benefit of playing alonside a private 1st class.

[Rodion]

Ljex, I understand the defense (good players being allowed to occasionally play poorly due to the interference of emotions such as anger), but, given the circumstances (the guy needing exactly 5 wins against the other guy to get to general, both of them being part of the same clan and the loser of the 5 games being the very guy that made a GD topic congratulating the winner on becoming a general), accepting that just shows that the C&A is but a paper tiger when judging certain people. Granted, other members may have a different view, but that's the way I see it.

My prediction stands: worst case scenario for Blitz, he gets a warning ("don't do that again") and is blocked from playing with Jobiwan.

[greenoaks]

Blitz would get those points back. A point reset would actually punish the community, as they'd have to play against a great player with the cost-benefit of playing against a private 1st class. It would also be good for Blitz's teammates, as they'd play alongside a great player with the cost-benefit of playing alonside a private 1st class.

your logic sucks all the fun out of this situation

[Streaker]

So jobiwan is guested, but not kicked from games? Why can he still take turns?

[lordhaha]

I think he should be reset to 1000 points so we can all start betting on how long it would take for him to return to conqueror

I'll take 6th June.

I don't like the way you are editing my post greenoaks!!! It was said as a joke. I do think a punishment is due, but reseting to 1000 points is a bit to far as I am sure he did not get all his points from cheating.

[eddie2]

they put his account on hold like they done with jle in the herkman case due to the fact hsomeone signed him up to 15 more games yesterday.

[greenoaks]

I think he should be reset to 1000 points so we can all start betting on how long it would take for him to return to conqueror

I'll take 6th June.

I don't like the way you are editing my post greenoaks!!! It was said as a joke. I do think a punishment is due, but reseting to 1000 points is a bit to far as I am sure he did not get all his points from cheating.

now you are sucking all the fun out of your suggested punishment

i'm sure Blitz would be ok with it as he could then start a new top 5

fastest 5 to return to Conquerer after a point reset
1. Blitzaholic
2. daylight

[KraphtOne]

Bruce, I have been conqueror for almost a year now, and several other times in the past, so, I don't need to cheat

oh shit, greatest quote ever

[jefjef]

So jobiwan is guested, but not kicked from games? Why can he still take turns?

He only had premium stripped. He isn't site banned. His current games remain active and can be played.