Jules Verne Contest [Rescued]

[Conchobar]

Can i just check if this tourney is going to be rescued or if anybody knows what's up with Djenre? Thanks.

[SirSebstar]

Can i just check if this tourney is going to be rescued or if anybody knows what's up with Djenre? Thanks.

I believe dakusaur is co-organizer, so its not yet in need to be resqued.
Daku, if you need help, i am still availiable

[Dukasaur]

Can i just check if this tourney is going to be rescued or if anybody knows what's up with Djenre? Thanks.

Nobody seems to know what happened to DJENRE. He told me he was getting busy at work, and then he asked a couple of his friends to sit turns for a couple of days, and since then his games have been played but there have been no posts and no PMs, so I assume he's still away. I know it seems like forever but actually it's only been three weeks. I'm not ready to write him off yet -- there's a lot of things that could happen in someone's life to keep him tied up for a few weeks.

Now, as to rescuing the tournament. If it should require rescue, then I will rescue it. I posted a few pages back that I will not let this tournament die. However, for the time being it doesn't require officially being rescued, so there's no point jumping the gun. To quote from the official Tournament Handbook, "If a tournament has had no activity (organizer post or active game) for more than 3 weeks, the tournament can be classified as "Needing Rescued"."

We have had 3 weeks without the lead organiser posting, but I have posted many times as the assistant organizer during that time. As for active games, we have not even had a single day without active games! I started creating Round 1 games on the first day that we got tournament privileges, and DJENRE started creating Round 2 games before Round 1 was even finished.

There are at present still seven active Round 2 games. When they finish I will start creating third round games (I believe the third round is officially called Act II Round 1). Basically, we're right on schedule, and there isn't a problem. I certainly hope DJENRE will come back soon, but in the meantime I can make the games and as long as you all play them, everything will be just fine...

[Dukasaur]

I believe dakusaur is co-organizer, so its not yet in need to be resqued.
Daku, if you need help, i am still availiable

It's Dukasaur not Dakusaur...

But yes, some help would be wonderful! I'm really busy at work too. If you could start compiling a scoreboard that would be great. I don't see any way to access DJENRE's scoreboard, unfortunately, so you will have to start one from scratch.

Build a scoreboard of some kind, and start going through the Round 2 games that have finished to see who has the bonuses. Can you do that?

[Dukasaur]

Wow, this objective thing is confusing. I held Paris for almost half the game, while there were 4 players and only 3, just to make sure it qualified. Anyhoo, Game 8870038, objective held for many, many rounds. Awaiting acknowledgement from other players.

What happens if they won't acknowledge it?

Some players ignore chat, unfortunately. We'll just have to go through the logs to confirm that you held it. Would be nice if you could get your opponents to confirm, because it will save us a lot of time, but it's not the end of the world if they don't.

[pilot16]

good work Dukasaur

[Dukasaur]

=D> good work Dukasaur

Thank you!





Only five Round 2 games still active as of today.

[Dukasaur]

Original post.

Tournament organizer: DJENRE (main idea, design and updating) & Dukasaur (invitations for games)

Special contribuitor : Fewnix (maps), Mr_adams [the book club] (english grammar;))




- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Welcome in the
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Jules Verne Contest AKA father of science fiction
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1828 - 1905

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -NEW RULES!!!- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - TWO YEARS PREMIUM !!!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - SINGLE AND TEAM TOURNEY AT ONCE!!!

- - - - - - - - - - - FREEMIUM WELCOME!!!- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 31 MAPS PLAYED!!!


Jules Verne was a French Breton author who, pioneered the science-fiction genre. He is best known for novels such as Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea (1870), A Journey to the Center of the Earth (1864), and Around the World in Eighty Days (1873). Verne wrote about space, air, and underwater travel before air travel and practical, submarines were invented, and before practical means of space travel had been devised. He is the third most translated individual author in the world, according to Index Translationum. Verne, along with Hugo Gernsback and H. G. Wells, is often referred to as the "Father of Science Fiction". (Source : wikipedia)

Jules Verne was also a theater lover, so this tourney will be divided in 3 ACTS.

Presentation of the tournament.

Tournament starts with 256 single players + 8 reserves.
Most of them can also form 4 players teams, and try to qualify for team finals.
Most of the map have special objectives to reach to get more points (see details).
One year premium offered to the first player who can reach 22 objectives (as number of books presented in this tourney) on 31 possibles.
General achievement medal given to any player who can reach 16 objectives on 31 possibles.
One year premium offered to the first team who can reach all the objectives. (individually or as a team)
General achievement medals given to any team who can reach 21 objectives on 31 possibles.
Freemium allowed to join as games will be done book after book (3 games maximum).
Minimum requirement : 100 games played, 95 % of turns taken, 1000 points (u can pm me if u want to participate anyway)

---------->ACT I
1st ROUND
AFRICA: 4 players single game, automatic, sequential, flat rate, chained, fog on.
1st and 2nd = advance to 2nd round
2nd ROUND
FRANCE: 4 players single game, automatic, sequential, flat rate, chained, fog on.
1st and 2nd = advance to ACT II

show: ACT I details

---------->ACT II
1st ROUND
8 players groups, automatic, sequential, flat rate, chained, fog on. (Except Luxembourg in round 3)
9 Maps: NORDIC COUNTRIES, ICELAND, USA , LUNAR WAR, ARCTIC, GREENLAND, SOUTH AMERICA, AUSTRALIA, OCEANIA.
16 players eliminated and 48 advance to next round

show: ACT II 1st round details

2nd ROUND
6 players groups, automatic, sequential, flat rate, chained, fog on. (Except Luxembourg in round 3)
6 Maps: TREASURES OF GALAPAGOS, OCEANIA, CLASSIC, BRITISH ISLES, GREATER CHINA, CHINESE CHECKERS.
16 players eliminated and 32 advance to next round

show: ACT II 2nd round details

3rd ROUND
4 players groups, automatic, sequential, flat rate, chained, fog on. (Except Luxembourg in round 3)
7 Maps: BALKAN PENINSULA (Beta), ALEXANDER’s EMPIRE, LUXEMBOURG (different settings), AMERICAN CIVIL WAR, IRELAND, NORTH AMERICA, EUROPE.
16 players eliminated and 16 advance to ACT III

show: ACT II 3rd round details

---------->ACT III

show: ACT III Main details

+ SINGLE FINALE[/b][/size]
1st ROUND
Two 8 players groups, automatic, sequential, flat rate, chained, fog on. (Except Luxembourg in round 3)
9 Maps: ENGLAND, MIDDLE EAST, ASIA, INDIAN EMPIRE, HONG KONG, JAPAN, SAN FRANCISCO, NYC, ENGLAND (back to London)
Best four advance to the finale

2nd ROUND
4 players groups, automatic, sequential, flat rate, chained, fog on. (Except Luxembourg in round 3)
Same maps than round 1.

Tournament’s winner will be found.

IMPORTANT : points earned in games since 1st match count for the final total.

show: ACT III SINGLE details

+ TEAM FINALE
The top 4 teams (totalizing points of each players in single tournament) will play the team finale.
Finale is split into doubles, triples, and quads. Captain of each team will choose the participants.
1st ROUND
1 double + 1 triple + 1 quad, automatic, sequential, flat rate, chained, fog on.
3 Maps: ENGLAND (D), MIDDLE EAST (T), ASIA (Q).
Best 2 teams advance to 2nd round.
2nd ROUND
1 double + 2 triples + 3 quads, automatic, sequential, flat rate, chained, fog on.
6 Maps: INDIAN EMPIRE (D), HONG KONG (T), JAPAN(T), SAN FRANCISCO(Q), NYC(Q), ENGLAND(Q) (back to London)

Team with the most points will be the winner of the team contest.

IMPORTANT : indivudual points doesn't count anymore after determinating the top 4 team.
IMPORTANT : A player is able to play both individual finale and team finale.

show: ACT III TEAM details

show: BONUSES

show: TIES

[Dukasaur]

I need a copy of the original rules that I can modify if necessary. Please bookmark this page. This is where any rule changes will be edited in. If you want a "pure" copy of the original, scroll up to the post above, or just go back to page 1.

Important edits will be in my signature colour, 4040FF.

show: substitutions rule modified May 22

The link to the main scores spreadsheet:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ap9tZNjRXkJydF9jLTh2LWh5QVZRQkc0NV80Q0pjU3c&hl=en_US#gid=0

Round-by-Round Scoreboards:
Act I, Round 2 (France)
Act II, Round 1, Map 1 (Nordic Nations)
Act II, Round 1, Map 2 (Iceland) (and the results of the sun/fog vote)
Act II, Round 1, Map 3 (USA)
Act II, Round 1, Map 4 (Lunar War)

Tournament organizer: DJENRE (main idea, design and updating) & Dukasaur (invitations for games)

Special contribuitor : Fewnix (maps), Mr_adams [the book club] (english grammar;))

The link to the book image is broken, so I have removed it.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Welcome in the
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Jules Verne Contest AKA father of science fiction
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1828 - 1905

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -NEW RULES!!!- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - TWO YEARS PREMIUM !!!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - SINGLE AND TEAM TOURNEY AT ONCE!!!

- - - - - - - - - - - FREEMIUM WELCOME!!!- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 31 MAPS PLAYED!!!


Jules Verne was a French Breton author who, pioneered the science-fiction genre. He is best known for novels such as Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea (1870), A Journey to the Center of the Earth (1864), and Around the World in Eighty Days (1873). Verne wrote about space, air, and underwater travel before air travel and practical, submarines were invented, and before practical means of space travel had been devised. He is the third most translated individual author in the world, according to Index Translationum. Verne, along with Hugo Gernsback and H. G. Wells, is often referred to as the "Father of Science Fiction". (Source : wikipedia)

Jules Verne was also a theater lover, so this tourney will be divided in 3 ACTS.

Presentation of the tournament.

Tournament starts with 256 single players + 8 reserves.
Most of them can also form 4 players teams, and try to qualify for team finals.
Most of the map have special objectives to reach to get more points (see details).
One year premium offered to the first player who can reach 22 objectives (as number of books presented in this tourney) on 31 possibles.
An important note about the premium prizes is presented here.
General achievement medal given to any player who can reach 16 objectives on 31 possibles.
One year premium offered to the first team who can reach all the objectives. (individually or as a team)
General achievement medals given to any team who can reach 21 objectives on 31 possibles.
Freemium allowed to join as games will be done book after book (3 games maximum).
Minimum requirement : 100 games played, 95 % of turns taken, 1000 points (u can pm me if u want to participate anyway)

---------->ACT I
1st ROUND
AFRICA: 4 players single game, automatic, sequential, flat rate, chained, fog on.
1st and 2nd = advance to 2nd round
2nd ROUND
FRANCE: 4 players single game, automatic, sequential, flat rate, chained, fog on.
1st and 2nd = advance to ACT II

show: ACT I details

---------->ACT II
1st ROUND
8 players groups, automatic, sequential, flat rate, chained, fog on. (Except Luxembourg in round 3)
9 Maps: NORDIC COUNTRIES, ICELAND, USA , LUNAR WAR, ARCTIC, GREENLAND, SOUTH AMERICA, AUSTRALIA, OCEANIA.
16 players eliminated and 48 advance to next round

show: ACT II 1st round details

2nd ROUND
6 players groups, automatic, sequential, flat rate, chained, fog on. (Except Luxembourg in round 3)
6 Maps: TREASURES OF GALAPAGOS, OCEANIA, CLASSIC, BRITISH ISLES, GREATER CHINA, CHINESE CHECKERS.
16 players eliminated and 32 advance to next round

show: ACT II 2nd round details

3rd ROUND
4 players groups, automatic, sequential, flat rate, chained, fog on. (Except Luxembourg in round 3)
7 Maps: BALKAN PENINSULA (Beta), ALEXANDER’s EMPIRE, LUXEMBOURG (different settings), AMERICAN CIVIL WAR, IRELAND, NORTH AMERICA, EUROPE.
16 players eliminated and 16 advance to ACT III

show: ACT II 3rd round details

---------->ACT III

show: ACT III Main details

+ SINGLE FINALE[/b][/size]
1st ROUND
Two 8 players groups, automatic, sequential, flat rate, chained, fog on. (Except Luxembourg in round 3)
9 Maps: ENGLAND, MIDDLE EAST, ASIA, INDIAN EMPIRE, HONG KONG, JAPAN, SAN FRANCISCO, NYC, ENGLAND (back to London)
Best four advance to the finale

2nd ROUND
4 players groups, automatic, sequential, flat rate, chained, fog on. (Except Luxembourg in round 3)
Same maps than round 1.

Tournament’s winner will be found.

IMPORTANT : points earned in games since 1st match count for the final total.

show: ACT III SINGLE details

+ TEAM FINALE
The top 4 teams (totalizing points of each players in single tournament) will play the team finale.
Finale is split into doubles, triples, and quads. Captain of each team will choose the participants.
1st ROUND
1 double + 1 triple + 1 quad, automatic, sequential, flat rate, chained, fog on.
3 Maps: ENGLAND (D), MIDDLE EAST (T), ASIA (Q).
Best 2 teams advance to 2nd round.
2nd ROUND
1 double + 2 triples + 3 quads, automatic, sequential, flat rate, chained, fog on.
6 Maps: INDIAN EMPIRE (D), HONG KONG (T), JAPAN(T), SAN FRANCISCO(Q), NYC(Q), ENGLAND(Q) (back to London)

Team with the most points will be the winner of the team contest.

IMPORTANT : indivudual points doesn't count anymore after determinating the top 4 team.
IMPORTANT : A player is able to play both individual finale and team finale.

show: ACT III TEAM details

show: BONUSES

A FAQ about the bonuses is posted here.

show: TIES

I realize that we have a lot of freemium players in this tourney and sometimes you won't have a slot available for your current game. Theoretically you were supposed to keep three slots open for this tournament but I understand that's sometimes easier said than done. I won't disqualify you for not having a slot available provided that you let me know and are trying to free one up. Please communicate. Post in the tournament thread, send me a PM, wall me, something. Don't just refuse an invite and leave me wondering. If you miss two invites without communicating I will disqualify you.

[kennys777]

updated my objective message...2 players confirm, 1 player commented on it, but has yet to confirm. It is a done deal!


Adding an image link to reinforce...

Just clarifying. I won the game outright, and held Paris, therefore there is only 2nd place. The log below shows I took Paris in round 1 (in red) and then deployed on Paris in rounds 2, 3, and 4...This proves it, and I don't need all my opponents to acknowledge it. I guess them not knowing the objectives caused a bit of animosity with one of them...

2011-04-30 09:05:04 - Game has been initialized
2011-04-30 11:21:59 - Lalloq received 3 troops for 11 regions
2011-04-30 11:22:19 - Lalloq deployed 3 troops on Calvados
2011-04-30 11:22:21 - Lalloq assaulted Manche from Calvados and conquered it from Jedi Fett
2011-04-30 11:22:49 - Lalloq reinforced Puy de Dome with 2 troops from Lozerre
2011-04-30 11:22:49 - Lalloq ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-30 18:57:59 - rmjw10 received 3 troops for 11 regions
2011-04-30 18:58:25 - rmjw10 deployed 3 troops on Var
2011-04-30 18:58:28 - rmjw10 assaulted Lozerre from Var and conquered it from Lalloq
2011-04-30 18:58:37 - rmjw10 reinforced Ardeche with 2 troops from Corsica
2011-04-30 18:58:37 - rmjw10 ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-30 20:07:05 - Jedi Fett received 3 troops for 10 regions
2011-04-30 20:07:22 - Jedi Fett deployed 3 troops on Morbihan
2011-04-30 20:07:28 - Jedi Fett assaulted Finistere from Morbihan and conquered it from rmjw10
2011-04-30 20:07:41 - Jedi Fett ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-30 20:50:09 - kennys777 received 3 troops for 11 regions
2011-04-30 20:50:23 - kennys777 deployed 3 troops on Marne
2011-04-30 20:50:30 - kennys777 assaulted Paris from Marne and conquered it from Jedi Fett
2011-04-30 20:50:38 - kennys777 reinforced Paris with 2 troops from Saone et Loire
2011-04-30 20:50:38 - kennys777 ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-30 20:50:38 - Incrementing game to round 2
2011-05-01 04:18:06 - Lalloq received 3 troops for 11 regions
2011-05-01 04:18:29 - Lalloq deployed 3 troops on Puy de Dome
2011-05-01 04:19:12 - Lalloq assaulted Marne from Meuse and conquered it from kennys777
2011-05-01 04:19:18 - Lalloq ended the turn and got spoils
2011-05-01 07:51:15 - rmjw10 received 3 troops for 11 regions
2011-05-01 07:51:23 - rmjw10 deployed 3 troops on Lozerre
2011-05-01 07:51:31 - rmjw10 assaulted Puy de Dome from Lozerre and conquered it from Lalloq
2011-05-01 07:51:48 - rmjw10 reinforced Ardeche with 2 troops from Alps
2011-05-01 07:51:48 - rmjw10 ended the turn and got spoils
2011-05-01 09:15:05 - Jedi Fett received 3 troops for 10 regions
2011-05-01 09:15:14 - Jedi Fett deployed 3 troops on Finistere
2011-05-01 09:15:16 - Jedi Fett assaulted Cote d'Armor from Finistere and conquered it from Lalloq
2011-05-01 09:15:39 - Jedi Fett reinforced Loire Atlantic with 3 troops from Cote d'Armor
2011-05-01 09:15:39 - Jedi Fett ended the turn and got spoils
2011-05-01 09:15:51 - kennys777 received 3 troops for 11 regions
2011-05-01 09:16:00 - kennys777 deployed 3 troops on Paris
2011-05-01 09:16:11 - kennys777 assaulted Marne from Nievre and conquered it from Lalloq
2011-05-01 09:16:20 - kennys777 reinforced Paris with 2 troops from Loire
2011-05-01 09:16:20 - kennys777 ended the turn and got spoils
2011-05-01 09:16:20 - Incrementing game to round 3
2011-05-01 10:35:43 - Lalloq received 3 troops for 9 regions
2011-05-01 10:36:07 - Lalloq deployed 3 troops on Meuse
2011-05-01 10:36:11 - Lalloq assaulted Marne from Meuse and conquered it from kennys777
2011-05-01 10:36:27 - Lalloq ended the turn and got spoils
2011-05-01 10:37:25 - rmjw10 received 4 troops for 12 regions
2011-05-01 10:37:30 - rmjw10 deployed 4 troops on Ardeche
2011-05-01 10:37:32 - rmjw10 assaulted Loire from Ardeche and conquered it from kennys777
2011-05-01 10:37:39 - rmjw10 assaulted Saone et Loire from Loire and conquered it from kennys777
2011-05-01 10:37:57 - rmjw10 assaulted Doubs from Savoie and conquered it from Jedi Fett
2011-05-01 10:38:28 - rmjw10 reinforced Garonne with 2 troops from Aude
2011-05-01 10:38:28 - rmjw10 ended the turn and got spoils
2011-05-01 13:28:23 - Jedi Fett received 2 troops for holding Brittany
2011-05-01 13:28:23 - Jedi Fett received 3 troops for 10 regions
2011-05-01 13:28:40 - Jedi Fett deployed 5 troops on Eure
2011-05-01 13:28:45 - Jedi Fett assaulted Oise from Eure and conquered it from rmjw10
2011-05-01 13:29:18 - Jedi Fett reinforced Loire Atlantic with 1 troops from Morbihan
2011-05-01 13:29:18 - Jedi Fett ended the turn and got spoils
2011-05-01 14:58:58 - kennys777 received 3 troops for 9 regions
2011-05-01 14:59:11 - kennys777 deployed 3 troops on Paris
2011-05-01 14:59:39 - kennys777 assaulted Meuse from Ardennes and conquered it from Lalloq
2011-05-01 14:59:52 - kennys777 reinforced Paris with 2 troops from Cher
2011-05-01 14:59:52 - kennys777 ended the turn and got spoils
2011-05-01 14:59:52 - Incrementing game to round 4
2011-05-02 04:04:15 - Lalloq received 3 troops for 9 regions
2011-05-02 04:04:40 - Lalloq deployed 3 troops on Cote d'Or
2011-05-02 04:04:49 - Lalloq assaulted Nievre from Cote d'Or and conquered it from kennys777
2011-05-02 04:05:06 - Lalloq reinforced Mayenne with 1 troops from Manche
2011-05-02 04:05:06 - Lalloq ended the turn and got spoils
2011-05-02 10:41:14 - rmjw10 received 4 troops for holding Alps
2011-05-02 10:41:14 - rmjw10 received 4 troops for 14 regions
2011-05-02 10:41:27 - rmjw10 deployed 3 troops on Puy de Dome
2011-05-02 10:41:35 - rmjw10 deployed 5 troops on Allier
2011-05-02 10:41:43 - rmjw10 assaulted Creuse from Puy de Dome and conquered it from kennys777
2011-05-02 10:41:54 - rmjw10 assaulted Nievre from Allier and conquered it from Lalloq
2011-05-02 10:42:13 - rmjw10 assaulted Cher from Allier and conquered it from kennys777
2011-05-02 10:42:27 - rmjw10 ended the turn and got spoils
2011-05-02 11:14:00 - Jedi Fett received 2 troops for holding Brittany
2011-05-02 11:14:00 - Jedi Fett received 3 troops for 11 regions
2011-05-02 11:14:13 - Jedi Fett deployed 1 troops on Loire Atlantic
2011-05-02 11:14:24 - Jedi Fett deployed 4 troops on Tarn
2011-05-02 11:14:28 - Jedi Fett assaulted Aude from Tarn and conquered it from rmjw10
2011-05-02 11:14:43 - Jedi Fett ended the turn and got spoils
2011-05-02 11:15:34 - kennys777 received 3 troops for 7 regions
2011-05-02 11:15:46 - kennys777 deployed 3 troops on Paris
2011-05-02 11:17:02 - kennys777 assaulted Cher from Paris and conquered it from rmjw10
2011-05-02 11:17:11 - kennys777 ended the turn and got spoils

[Dukasaur]

Well, I actually get a couple days off this weekend, so I will try to get some work done on this today and tomorrow.

[Dukasaur]

2011-04-30 20:50:30 - kennys777 assaulted Paris from Marne and conquered it from Jedi Fett
2011-04-30 20:50:38 - Incrementing game to round 2
2011-05-01 09:16:00 - kennys777 deployed 3 troops on Paris
2011-05-01 09:16:20 - Incrementing game to round 3
2011-05-01 14:59:11 - kennys777 deployed 3 troops on Paris
2011-05-01 14:59:52 - Incrementing game to round 4
2011-05-02 11:15:46 - kennys777 deployed 3 troops on Paris
2011-05-02 11:17:02 - kennys777 assaulted Cher from Paris and conquered it from rmjw10

This is perfect. I wish everybody was as organised as you...

[pilot16]

2011-04-13 23:14:27 - Game has been initialized
2011-04-13 23:58:16 - chutley received 3 troops for 11 regions
2011-04-13 23:58:34 - chutley deployed 3 troops on Saone et Loire
2011-04-13 23:58:51 - chutley reinforced Ardeche with 2 troops from Var
2011-04-13 23:58:51 - chutley ended the turn
2011-04-14 00:02:52 - der sniffter received 3 troops for 11 regions
2011-04-14 00:02:54 - der sniffter deployed 3 troops on Moselle
2011-04-14 00:02:59 - der sniffter reinforced Cher with 2 troops from Allier
2011-04-14 00:02:59 - der sniffter ended the turn
2011-04-14 01:12:20 - chapcrap received 3 troops for 11 regions
2011-04-14 01:12:22 - chapcrap deployed 3 troops on Finistere
2011-04-14 01:13:12 - chapcrap ended the turn
2011-04-14 20:55:40 - pilot16 received 3 troops for 11 regions
2011-04-14 20:56:14 - pilot16 deployed 1 troops on Manche
2011-04-14 20:56:20 - pilot16 deployed 1 troops on Manche
2011-04-14 20:56:25 - pilot16 deployed 1 troops on Manche
2011-04-14 20:56:40 - pilot16 assaulted Calvados from Manche and conquered it from chutley
2011-04-14 20:56:59 - pilot16 ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-14 20:56:59 - Incrementing game to round 2
2011-04-14 21:47:58 - chutley received 3 troops for 10 regions
2011-04-14 21:48:02 - chutley deployed 3 troops on Ardeche
2011-04-14 21:48:09 - chutley assaulted Lozerre from Ardeche and conquered it from der sniffter
2011-04-14 21:48:55 - chutley ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-15 00:41:06 - der sniffter received 3 troops for 10 regions
2011-04-15 00:41:10 - der sniffter deployed 3 troops on Moselle
2011-04-15 00:41:14 - der sniffter assaulted Bas Rhin from Moselle and conquered it from chutley
2011-04-15 00:41:19 - der sniffter ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-15 01:05:33 - chapcrap received 3 troops for 11 regions
2011-04-15 01:05:42 - chapcrap deployed 3 troops on Pas de Calais
2011-04-15 01:05:45 - chapcrap assaulted Nord from Pas de Calais and conquered it from pilot16
2011-04-15 01:05:51 - chapcrap reinforced Ardennes with 4 troops from Nord
2011-04-15 01:05:51 - chapcrap ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-15 13:28:16 - pilot16 received 3 troops for 11 regions
2011-04-15 13:28:21 - pilot16 deployed 3 troops on Mayenne
2011-04-15 13:28:33 - pilot16 assaulted Paris from Mayenne and conquered it from chapcrap
2011-04-15 13:28:54 - pilot16 reinforced Mayenne with 2 troops from Charente
2011-04-15 13:28:54 - pilot16 ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-15 13:28:54 - Incrementing game to round 3
2011-04-15 16:15:40 - chutley received 3 troops for 10 regions
2011-04-15 16:15:45 - chutley deployed 3 troops on Ardeche
2011-04-15 16:15:54 - chutley assaulted Savoie from Ardeche and conquered it from chapcrap
2011-04-15 16:16:41 - chutley reinforced Maine with 2 troops from Vienne
2011-04-15 16:16:41 - chutley ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-15 19:24:55 - der sniffter received 3 troops for 11 regions
2011-04-15 19:24:57 - der sniffter deployed 3 troops on Moselle
2011-04-15 19:25:02 - der sniffter assaulted Meuse from Moselle and conquered it from pilot16
2011-04-15 19:25:08 - der sniffter assaulted Marne from Cher and conquered it from chutley
2011-04-15 19:25:12 - der sniffter reinforced Marne with 2 troops from Oise
2011-04-15 19:25:12 - der sniffter ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-16 07:50:51 - chapcrap received 3 troops for 10 regions
2011-04-16 07:50:54 - chapcrap deployed 3 troops on Somme
2011-04-16 07:50:55 - chapcrap assaulted Oise from Somme and conquered it from der sniffter
2011-04-16 07:51:02 - chapcrap reinforced Oise with 2 troops from Eure
2011-04-16 07:51:02 - chapcrap ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-16 09:05:41 - pilot16 received 3 troops for 11 regions
2011-04-16 09:05:45 - pilot16 deployed 3 troops on Paris
2011-04-16 09:07:05 - pilot16 reinforced Paris with 2 troops from Vendee
2011-04-16 09:07:05 - pilot16 ended the turn
2011-04-16 09:07:05 - Incrementing game to round 4
2011-04-16 17:38:46 - chutley received 3 troops for 10 regions
2011-04-16 17:38:49 - chutley deployed 3 troops on Maine
2011-04-16 17:38:52 - chutley assaulted Loire Atlantic from Maine and conquered it from pilot16
2011-04-16 17:39:25 - chutley ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-17 01:37:41 - der sniffter received 4 troops for 12 regions
2011-04-17 01:37:45 - der sniffter deployed 4 troops on Meuse
2011-04-17 01:37:51 - der sniffter assaulted Haut Rhin from Meuse and conquered it from pilot16
2011-04-17 01:37:59 - der sniffter ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-17 06:13:31 - chapcrap received 3 troops for holding Picardy
2011-04-17 06:13:31 - chapcrap received 3 troops for 11 regions
2011-04-17 06:13:39 - chapcrap deployed 3 troops on Ardennes
2011-04-17 06:13:41 - chapcrap deployed 3 troops on Oise
2011-04-17 06:13:47 - chapcrap ended the turn
2011-04-17 21:38:48 - pilot16 received 3 troops for 9 regions
2011-04-17 21:38:53 - pilot16 deployed 3 troops on Paris
2011-04-17 21:39:00 - pilot16 assaulted Vienne from Paris and conquered it from chutley
2011-04-17 21:39:14 - pilot16 ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-17 21:39:14 - Incrementing game to round 5
2011-04-17 22:20:18 - chutley received 3 troops for 10 regions
2011-04-17 22:20:22 - chutley cashed in a group of Oise, Moselle, and Savoie worth 10 troops
2011-04-17 22:20:22 - chutley got bonus of 2 troops added to Savoie
2011-04-17 22:20:32 - chutley deployed 6 troops on Alps
2011-04-17 22:20:35 - chutley deployed 7 troops on Ardeche
2011-04-17 22:20:38 - chutley assaulted Loire from Ardeche and conquered it from der sniffter
2011-04-17 22:20:42 - chutley assaulted Puy de Dome from Loire and conquered it from pilot16
2011-04-17 22:21:06 - chutley assaulted Allier from Puy de Dome and conquered it from der sniffter
2011-04-17 22:21:17 - chutley assaulted Corsica from Alps and conquered it from der sniffter
2011-04-17 22:21:35 - chutley reinforced Savoie with 3 troops from Alps
2011-04-17 22:21:35 - chutley ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-18 02:42:42 - der sniffter received 2 troops for holding Alsace
2011-04-18 02:42:42 - der sniffter received 3 troops for 10 regions
2011-04-18 02:42:45 - der sniffter deployed 5 troops on Haute Vienne
2011-04-18 02:42:46 - der sniffter assaulted Vienne from Haute Vienne and conquered it from pilot16
2011-04-18 02:42:57 - der sniffter ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-18 02:53:10 - chapcrap received 3 troops for holding Picardy
2011-04-18 02:53:10 - chapcrap received 3 troops for 11 regions
2011-04-18 02:53:15 - chapcrap deployed 6 troops on Finistere
2011-04-18 02:53:16 - chapcrap assaulted Cote d'Armor from Finistere and conquered it from chutley
2011-04-18 02:53:22 - chapcrap ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-18 16:30:34 - pilot16 received 3 troops for 8 regions
2011-04-18 16:30:38 - pilot16 deployed 3 troops on Paris
2011-04-18 16:31:02 - pilot16 assaulted Cher from Paris and conquered it from der sniffter
2011-04-18 16:31:17 - pilot16 reinforced Paris with 1 troops from Calvados
2011-04-18 16:31:17 - pilot16 ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-18 16:31:17 - Incrementing game to round 6
2011-04-18 23:44:46 - chutley received 4 troops for holding Alps
2011-04-18 23:44:46 - chutley received 4 troops for 13 regions
2011-04-18 23:45:01 - chutley deployed 3 troops on Savoie
2011-04-18 23:45:12 - chutley deployed 1 troops on Loire
2011-04-18 23:45:14 - chutley deployed 4 troops on Allier
2011-04-18 23:45:16 - chutley assaulted Cher from Allier and conquered it from pilot16
2011-04-18 23:45:40 - chutley reinforced Puy de Dome with 2 troops from Allier
2011-04-18 23:45:40 - chutley ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-19 10:21:23 - der sniffter received 2 troops for holding Alsace
2011-04-19 10:21:23 - der sniffter received 3 troops for 10 regions
2011-04-19 10:21:33 - der sniffter deployed 5 troops on Vienne
2011-04-19 10:21:50 - der sniffter assaulted Creuse from Vienne and conquered it from pilot16
2011-04-19 10:22:08 - der sniffter assaulted Puy de Dome from Creuse and conquered it from chutley
2011-04-19 10:22:22 - der sniffter ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-19 20:09:06 - chapcrap received 3 troops for holding Picardy
2011-04-19 20:09:06 - chapcrap received 4 troops for 12 regions
2011-04-19 20:09:08 - chapcrap cashed in a group of Cote d'Or, Loire Atlantic, and Paris worth 10 troops
2011-04-19 20:09:10 - chapcrap deployed 17 troops on Morbihan
2011-04-19 20:09:11 - chapcrap assaulted Loire Atlantic from Morbihan and conquered it from chutley
2011-04-19 20:09:17 - chapcrap reinforced Loire Atlantic with 2 troops from Cote d'Armor
2011-04-19 20:09:17 - chapcrap ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-19 22:44:04 - pilot16 received 3 troops for 7 regions
2011-04-19 22:44:07 - pilot16 cashed in a group of Haut Rhin, Marne, and Meuse worth 10 troops
2011-04-19 22:44:34 - pilot16 deployed 13 troops on Charente
2011-04-19 22:44:42 - pilot16 assaulted Gironde from Charente and conquered it from der sniffter
2011-04-19 22:45:07 - pilot16 assaulted Pyrenees from Gironde and conquered it from der sniffter
2011-04-19 22:45:16 - pilot16 assaulted Garonne from Gironde and conquered it from chapcrap
2011-04-19 22:45:30 - pilot16 assaulted Haute Vienne from Garonne and conquered it from der sniffter
2011-04-19 22:45:44 - pilot16 assaulted Tarn from Aude and conquered it from chapcrap
2011-04-19 22:45:56 - pilot16 ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-19 22:45:56 - Incrementing game to round 7
2011-04-19 23:47:47 - chutley received 4 troops for 12 regions
2011-04-19 23:47:49 - chutley deployed 4 troops on Loire
2011-04-19 23:47:52 - chutley assaulted Puy de Dome from Loire and conquered it from der sniffter
2011-04-19 23:48:17 - chutley reinforced Puy de Dome with 1 troops from Cote d'Or
2011-04-19 23:48:17 - chutley ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-19 23:51:34 - der sniffter received 2 troops for holding Alsace
2011-04-19 23:51:34 - der sniffter received 3 troops for 8 regions
2011-04-19 23:51:39 - der sniffter cashed in a group of Pas de Calais, Loire, and Creuse worth 8 troops
2011-04-19 23:51:39 - der sniffter got bonus of 2 troops added to Creuse
2011-04-19 23:51:42 - der sniffter deployed 13 troops on Creuse
2011-04-19 23:51:47 - der sniffter assaulted Puy de Dome from Creuse and conquered it from chutley
2011-04-19 23:52:10 - der sniffter ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-19 23:56:01 - chapcrap received 3 troops for holding Picardy
2011-04-19 23:56:01 - chapcrap received 2 troops for holding Brittany
2011-04-19 23:56:01 - chapcrap received 3 troops for 11 regions
2011-04-19 23:56:13 - chapcrap deployed 8 troops on Ardennes
2011-04-19 23:56:15 - chapcrap assaulted Meuse from Ardennes and conquered it from der sniffter
2011-04-19 23:56:27 - chapcrap assaulted Moselle from Meuse and conquered it from der sniffter
2011-04-19 23:56:29 - chapcrap assaulted Bas Rhin from Meuse and conquered it from der sniffter
2011-04-19 23:56:31 - chapcrap assaulted Haut Rhin from Meuse and conquered it from der sniffter
2011-04-19 23:56:35 - chapcrap assaulted Doubs from Meuse and conquered it from der sniffter
2011-04-19 23:56:38 - chapcrap assaulted Saone et Loire from Doubs and conquered it from chutley
2011-04-19 23:56:40 - chapcrap assaulted Loire from Saone et Loire and conquered it from chutley
2011-04-19 23:56:43 - chapcrap assaulted Puy de Dome from Loire and conquered it from der sniffter
2011-04-19 23:56:46 - chapcrap assaulted Allier from Puy de Dome and conquered it from chutley
2011-04-19 23:56:53 - chapcrap reinforced Ardennes with 4 troops from Allier
2011-04-19 23:56:53 - chapcrap ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-20 13:22:43 - pilot16 received 4 troops for 12 regions
2011-04-20 13:22:57 - pilot16 deployed 1 troops on Charente
2011-04-20 13:23:07 - pilot16 deployed 3 troops on Paris
2011-04-20 13:23:16 - pilot16 assaulted Cher from Paris and conquered it from chutley
2011-04-20 13:23:28 - pilot16 ended the turn and got spoils
2011-04-20 13:23:28 - Incrementing game to round 8

[Dukasaur]

:mrgreen:

Copycat...

Besides, you didn't highlight the relevant passages in red like Kennys did...

[Dukasaur]

Interim Scores thus far (2 games still ongoing)
Edit: Scores now Final (all games completed)
A note about notation: Where no bonus has been claimed or awarded, the scores are 10 for the winner, 7 for 2nd place, 3 for 3rd place. Where a bonus is awarded, it is indicated as +10. There should be, therefore, no confusion between those who have scored 10 for winning the game in the ordinary fashion, and those who scored +10 for the Paris bonus.

Those eligible to advance are highlighted in red.

(We seem to be beset with an extraordinary number of players whose names end in numbers, so you may need to look closely. For instance:Seamus76 7+10=17 Remy1309 10. Seamus76 scores 17 and Remy1309 scores 10.)


Game 8870023
torres44cm 10
Ttblanch +10
Bigroo4601 3
Vlajzi83 7

Game 8870024
PnC 10
Justin3f 7
Dafoz
BritishDragon 3

Game 8870026
Rjhankey 7+10=17
DJENRE 10
Steelfoot
Marechal Joffre 3

Game 8870027
MlMarcelo 10
McShanester29 3+10=13
Bullettdodger 7
Claudard

Game 8870028
Pandemonium 7+10=17
Bandido 10
Dragon dor
Pantheon 3

Game 8870029
Sam02 10
Le Rodent 7
Herus
Perarnevik 3

Game 8870030
Davetso 10
Hermey68 7
Mr_Adams
Bignick5849 3

Game 8870031
DrWar 10+10=20
JJ41375 7
TheSaxlad
AngryAnderson 3

Game 8870032
Alexcata 10
Fewnix 7
Fiction
Idusmars 3

Game 8870034
Bobdakota 10
Capt. Ivan Drago 7
Ckyrias
Grunion 3

Game 8870035
MattiWacklin 10
SirSebstar +10
Nemrehs1 3
013 7

Game 8870036
Pilot16 7+10=17
Chapcrap 10
Chutley
Der sniffter 3

Game 8870037
Conchobar 10+10=20
Magneto_acolyte 7
Jay_Santos
Scatt 3

Game 8870038
Hook2 10
Squishyg 3+10=13
Au.revoir
ReichZealand 7

Game 8870039
General Redstone 10
Fbonsignori 7
Dakky21
Buzz199 3
(Dakky21 claimed the bonus but in fact only held Paris for 2 rounds, not 3)

Game 8870040
Pack Man 7+10=17
VestedPower 10
Andwyn
Neobreton 3

Game 8870041
Hotpockets 10
OleCowboyHippy 7 -- dropped out
AlexZG
King Gary 3 -- advances

Game 8870043
Lorenzol 10
Uckuki 3+10=13
Claudio
Bob72 7

Game 8870046
Ringemaster 7+10=17
Stevkov 10
Spartacus65
Brambles 3

Game 8870047
DBandit70 10
Fairman +10
Bfunny27 3
Belgian Blue 7

Game 8870048
Bobzimmerman 10
IR1SH ACE 7
Chewie1
Dapp69er 3

Game 8870049
Lazyfox 10
Dementia13 7
Wanderer70
Unai 3

Game 8870050
Duncana 3+10=13
Mc Lor 10
Moonchild
Paws1610 7

Game 8870051
Cptbeefalo 10
Stofer71 7
Dgkb99
Sudija77 3

Game 8870052
Seamus76 7+10=17
Remy1309 10
The manderson
Iseman 3

Game 8870054
Growler 10
VicFontaine 7
IWearRed24
Drags 3

Game 8979214
Iwillrocku 10
n.n. 7
Agressivo
Clanger35 3

Game 8979215
Kennys777 10+10=20
Rmjw10 7
Lalloq
Jedi Fett 3

Game 8979216
Darkseb 10
Dustin800 7+10=17
40kguy
Bruno fountain 3

Game 8979217
Opposites. 10
Dexterdexter +10
SC MAN 7
Honest gabe 3

Game 8870042 finished May 24
general_c 10+10=20
severs 7
j-rafa 3
dumbel

Game 8870045 finished May 28
jrbedwell 10
djelebert +10
notyou2 3
ChefWeebles 7

[mcshanester29]

Hey just wanted to say thanks and great job keeping this tourney running Dukasaur!!!!

[Dukasaur]

Some FAQs about the special bonuses:

The special bonuses on these maps are an important feature of this tournament. They are a part of what makes it unique and what attracted me to it. There are bonuses on almost every map in Act II and on about half the maps in Act III, so we have to get used to them. If you absolutely hate the bonuses and the extra level of complexity they provide, then you're in the wrong tournament -- please post your resignation and make room for somebody who enjoys this kind of thing!

There are bonuses on 31 maps in total, including Act I Round 2 that we just finished. Remember, there are GA medals available for singles scoring 16/31 bonuses and for teams scoring 21/31 bonuses.

The main FAQ so far -- and I mean FAQ quite literally -- is some variation of, "If it says bonus can be scored with 3 players does that mean exactly 3 or at least 3?" The answer is AT LEAST 3. For Act II Round 1 this will become at least 4, and then in Act II Round 2 it will go back down to at least 3. I know the original post said things like "Bonuses are available only with 3 players left" and taken literally that would mean exactly 3, but it was not the intended meaning. The intention was to require a minimum of players remaining, because once you are down to 2 players it would be easy to score the bonus while isolating the last player on one tert. This interpretation was confirmed by DJENRE in one of his last posts before he vanished.

FAQ 2: "If I get the bonus region on the drop, does that count as my first round of holding it.?" No. You have to hold the bonus for 3 complete rounds. So, if you drop on it, that is when the clock starts. It will be one complete round if you still hold it on round two, it will be two complete rounds if you still hold it on round three, and it will be three complete rounds if you still hold it on round four. Things really don't change whether you drop on it or capture it: if you capture it on Round 7, you will not have held it for three complete rounds until Round 10.

FAQ 3: "Can more than one person get the bonus?" NO, only the first.

FAQ 4 and 5: "How do I get the bonus?" Post a message BOTH in game chat, and in the tournament thread. Please get your opponents to confirm it in game chat. "What happens if my opponents refuse to confirm it?" Don't worry, we'll check the game logs when the game is over.

More about that: Checking the game log is a lot of work. Basically, if your opponent refuses to confirm, then you will still get your bonus, but it is more work for me. Conversely, if your opponent has the bonus and you refuse to confirm, then you won't prevent him from collecting his points. You are not hurting your opponent by refusing to confirm, you are only hurting me. So please, don't be a prick. If you know your opponent has the bonus, be gracious about it and confirm in game chat.

"Why do we have to post in both game chat and the tournament thread? Isn't one or the other enough?" It's just a safety net so I don't miss anything. Quite honestly I check both, so either one will in most cases be enough, but posting in both avoids the possibility that I'll miss one.

Also, it is a BIG help to me if the people posting in the tournament threads would post actual game links, not just game numbers. If you use the Game button at the top of the editor, just press the button and type in the game number. Do NOT type "Game number" or anything else. Just the game number, not even a space or a period. Anything non-numerical causes the Game button to fail. There's a nice big tutorial on all the editor functions here. Don't worry about the form that DJENRE originally posted, it doesn't really help. Just say, "I scored the bonus" or whatever, and a functioning game link. Get your opponents to confirm in chat if at all possible, and don't lose any sleep over it if they don't.

[Dukasaur]

An Important Note About the Premium Prizes:

This tournament offers premium prizes. I think it's pretty important to note that these were offered by the original TO, DJENRE. I still expect DJENRE to return, but if he does not then the status of the premium prizes is in doubt. I am not willing to commit myself to paying for these. I won't completely rule it out, but I'm not willing to promise at this point.

The return of DJENRE is still our best hope, but for now I have to post that the status of the prizes is in doubt.

[Dukasaur]

I'm considering some kind of deadlock breaking rule to cut short the two games still running. Haven't made any real decision about this. If the players want to discuss it, please feel free to post.

[Dukasaur]

A Rule Change on Substitutions:

DJENRE's instructions were that if someone resigns or is disqualified for missing invites, their spot should be given to a team-mate that was eliminated. I never really liked this rule, and in some cases I can't even figure out who is on what team, so until DJENRE's return I will be using my preferred rule: If someone resigns or is disqualified, their spot will be given to the third-place finisher in the Act I games they played in. First preference will be given to the third-place finisher in the Act I Round 2 game, then to the third-place finisher in their Act I Round 1 game, then to the fourth place finisher in their Act I Round 2 game, and finally to the fourth-place finisher in their Act I Round 1 game.

[Dukasaur]

One final thing to consider, for the freemium players.

DJENRE's original intention was that once we start Act II we will pick up the pace and play 3 games at a time. The original rules did say that freemium players will have to keep 3 slots open once Act II begins. I'm cognizant that this is a fairly big sacrifice to ask of our freemium players (and there are a lot of you in this tourney) so if a majority of the freemiums involved ask me to keep it one game at a time, I will. Please post comments and suggestions on this.

[Dukasaur]

PM I just sent out:

I finally got a weekend off, so I've gotten around to some of the updating I've been promising. Here are some links to important Jules Verne Contest news.

Here are the interim scores for Act I Round 2. Two games are still active.

Here is a FAQ about the special map bonuses.

There is an important caveat about the Premium Prizes.

I have made a rule change about substitutions.

Finally, I have made a duplicate of the original post and put it here. This is so I can make edits to the rules (since I have no access to DJENRE's original post.) DJENRE's turn-sitters have offered to edit his original post for me, but CC rules prohibit this, and I wouldn't be comfortable with it even if it was allowed, so I decline the offer. I will just use this duplicate copy of the original post to make my edits in.

All of the above posts are on page 33 of the tournament thread, so if you lose this PM and want to refer back to something, just remember 33. Just like an old LP record, or 1/3 of a hundred, approximately...

And that concludes my Jules Verne updating for this weekend. I have to get to my other tourneys now, so I'll see you all next week...

[davetso]

btw.. why do people get 'extra' points for achieving the objective and coming in 1st or 2nd.. it should be one or the other..

i mean i dont think the rules said that you can get up to 20 points. i thought it was, if you achieve the bonus, it is +10 automatically no matter what the outcome of the game would be.

if i knew this before, i would have tried harder to achieve the objective

[Dukasaur]

btw.. why do people get 'extra' points for achieving the objective and coming in 1st or 2nd.. it should be one or the other..

i mean i dont think the rules said that you can get up to 20 points. i thought it was, if you achieve the bonus, it is +10 automatically no matter what the outcome of the game would be.

if i knew this before, i would have tried harder to achieve the objective

There was a lot of confusion about this, and to tell you the truth, I wasn't sure myself. But a decision had to be made and so I made it.

Anyway, don't worry: you've made it through to the next round, and there are 30 more bonuses to try for!

[Dukasaur]

Severs has asked what is a deadlock breaking rule? A deadlock-breaking rule is where a game seems to be going on a long time without any sign of anyone winning, so an arbitrary rule is put in to declare a winner in some other fashion.

The one I have seen most often is where a TO declares a fixed limit to a game, 50 rounds for instance, and at that point declares a winner depending on number of territories or number of troops at that point. Number of troops can't be assessed with the Fog on, so my personal preference is "number of reinforcements received on the last turn before the limit."

There are all kinds of other possibilities. Quite honestly, anything that all the players in the game could agree to would be okay.

Although I've brought up the idea of us using a something like that, I'm not in a big panic about it. I would like the players involved in those last two games to at least discuss the possibility, but I'm not adamant about it yet.

Edit: Here is a link to a post that explains it much better than I have:http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=91&t=116734#p2617142