Suggestion to improve efficiency of clan ranking process

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Suggestion to improve efficiency of clan ranking process

Postby FarangDemon on Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:16 am

The purpose for thread is to unveil my vision and drum up support for a more efficient system for us to generate updates to our respective ranking systems which are based on clan war performance.

STATUS QUO INEFFICIENT METHOD

Everybody uses excel. To generate updates, everybody must check the forums for results of clan wars. Then they must enter line by line of concluded wars into their excel and must also spend time manipulating data in excel. Each must also separately take time to double check the forums to ensure that all new war results were added.

MY VISION

Clan Directors maintain a file containing raw results from clan wars and post it to a URL whose name does not change. Each line has 5 values separated by comma or some other format (Clan 1 Name, Clan 2 Name, Clan 1 Score, Clan 2 Score, War End Date).

Every few weeks, Clan Directors update the clan war results file and upload this file to the same URL.

jpcloet, qwert and FarangDemon write scripts that will AUTOMATICALLY calculate the rankings based on their systems (using javascript as I have done, for example).

To generate updated clan rankings, jpcloet, qwert and FarangDemon merely press a button to launch their script to automatically calculate rankings.

CONCLUSION

According to my vision, everybody saves time if we all use scripts to automatically process data instead of mucking about in excel every time we get new data. Also only one person spends time scouring the forums tabulating results of clan wars, the CD, who then posts this information to a URL which our scripts use.

Yes this requires an initial investment of time to write the scripts. However, this small investment is far outweighed by the time you save

1 not scouring the forums for clan war results
2 not entering updated clan war results into excel
3 not manipulating excel

You just click a button. FYI I´ve volunteered to help jpcloet and qwert write scripts.

The cool thing is that jpcloet already maintains data files, so it´s just a question of him committing to continue to maintain it and post each update to a URL. The current status is, jpcloet is thinking about doing this.

FarangDemon wrote:FYI - I have a system that objectively measures clan performance, based solely on a clan´s performance against another clan. You can read about it here:

viewtopic.php?f=438&t=140929
Last edited by FarangDemon on Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:39 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Which clan is number 1?

Postby Dako on Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:20 am

Why, of course KORT is #1 - they have won a CCup!
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Re: Which clan is number 1?

Postby Master Fenrir on Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:33 am

Dako wrote:Why, of course KORT is #1 - they have won a CCup!

If you say so. I'm more of a solid BCup guy.

And Farang, your nerdisms have my unwavering support.
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Re: Which clan is number 1?

Postby FarangDemon on Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:49 am

Master Fenrir wrote:
Dako wrote:Why, of course KORT is #1 - they have won a CCup!

If you say so. I'm more of a solid BCup guy.

And Farang, your nerdisms have my unwavering support.


Thanks for your unqualified support and calling me a nerd. But flattery will get you nowhere. Your clan´s ranking will be based strictly on your performance, no matter how often you sing my praises. You can inspect the javacode yourself to see.

http://killersapp.com/algorithmof400.htm

right click, "View Source"
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Re: Which clan is number 1?

Postby ljex on Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:41 pm

chucks will always be better in my mind as a ranking system. Just because ranking systems like this consistently under rank newer clans and over rank clans who have lost members and such. Anyway, if I were you I wouldnt expect anything from CC to help you here...but if you really cared you would take the time to do it yourself which wouldn't really be that hard or time consuming. I dont know how you did yours but if i were to do it i would just create an excel spreadsheet to have it calculate everything.
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Re: Which clan is number 1?

Postby TheSaxlad on Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:24 am

Ljex, firstly the algorithm of 400 takes into consideration all the concerns you just raised.

I will support this wholeheartedly. Just checked out the file which to me seems sound, so you have TNC's backing. Whether or not it deoesn't matter :D
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Re: Which clan is number 1?

Postby FarangDemon on Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:20 am

Ljex, thanks for stating your preference for Chuuuck´s method. I´m interested to know how many people are satisfied with opinion-based ranking systems over directly performance-based ones, whatever their reasons.

However, regardless of your misgivings regarding performance-based ranking systems, it is clear from your suggestions that you do not understand my vision to make the clan ranking process more efficient for those of us applying ranking systems based on clan war performance. It regards the system-level of how everybody processes their updates and is irrelevant to any perceived shortcomings of my specific ranking system.

Please see OP where I have added content to clarify the vision.

TheSaxlad, thanks for your support! Yes I do believe I´ve mitigated the classic shortcomings of objective methods but won´t go into details in this thread. In the meantime, I´ve decided to restructure this thread to be only about my suggestion for improving efficiency of the clan ranking process. Though please feel free to post any additional comments on the Algorithm of 400 here viewtopic.php?f=438&t=140929.
Last edited by FarangDemon on Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Which clan is number 1?

Postby Mr Changsha on Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:38 am

I like it...I didn't understand all that much of it...but I still liked it.

I'm all for numbers. I'm totally in favour of them.

However farangdemon, can i ask you to re-post your vision... with the intelligence level of the average five year old in mind?

I'd like to understand this better, but all I've really grasped so far is clans/more numbers/jpcloet is a lazy so and so/excel seems somehow important, in someway, that I've not entirely understood.

Finally, this is also rather redundant, if I may say, as it is commonly known that the BpB are the number 1 clan in all matters not directly related to actually winning games. That's about 65.7% of CC. Therefore this ranking system is basically just about the silver and bronze medals.
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Re: Suggestion to improve efficiency of clan ranking process

Postby jigger1986 on Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:43 am

I agree with Changsha, I am very interested but have the computer savvy of a monkey(and not even those smart ones that can write stories in movies)

Im not sure if it would do any good, but I would be happy to go through all the past clan wars and make a list just in MS word using the format you mentioned above, where it could be copy and pasted to a format that you can use (a url as you say)

Let me know if this would help you on your tireless initiative to give us the perfect ranking system(although I am a personal fan of Chucks)

-jig
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Re: Which clan is number 1?

Postby FarangDemon on Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:49 am

Welcome, Mr. Changsha. I´m pleased by your faith in numbers. :D They are our friends, after all.

I´m not saying jpcloet is lazy and I´m not saying I am lazy (as ljex may have you believe). It´s just that I would prefer to do things more efficiently and see my vision as an improvement to the CC clan community, as it makes it easier for people to churn out updated clan rankings over time.

I just rewrote the entire OP to explain my vision and posted it just a few minutes after your last post. I assume you didn´t see it. Please let me know if you can understand my vision now.

Jigger, I appreciate your volunteering to do this. However there are two key points for it to work:

1) You could use notepad to save the results as a text file. Word won´t work because it uses a funky format that my javascript can´t parse. You see, the reason for the efficiency gain is that my script is going to read your results file, not a human being. That is why it saves time. Computers are faster at computing than us, but we need to play by their rules, giving them data the way they can understand it.

2) I would want you to commit to provide an updated clan war results file every month. The efficiency gain of my vision requires that one person do this. Otherwise next month I would be unable to generate an updated clan ranking because all I have is your June results file.

I think jpcloet is going to do this, and he is in the best position to do it as he already has the data. I just want the community to understand my suggestion. However, if you still want to do it, that would be great.
Last edited by FarangDemon on Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Which clan is number 1?

Postby Mr Changsha on Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:59 am

FarangDemon wrote:Welcome, Mr. Changsha. I´m pleased by your faith in numbers. :D They are our friends, after all.

I just rewrote the entire OP to explain my vision and posted it just a few minutes after your last post. I assume you didn´t see it. Please let me know if you can understand my vision now.


Now you mock me...you cruel, cruel, man.

I actually burst into tears by paragraph three...the first time. Now I've just tried to read it again and am actually sobbing uncontrollably as I type this very post. Five year olds must be bloody intelligent where you are!

Where I am they mess their pants and get a fucking lolly.
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Re: Suggestion to improve efficiency of clan ranking process

Postby jigger1986 on Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:41 pm

Farang,

As I said, I'll be happy to do the stats gathering if jp wont (or doesnt have time) I can record the info using notepad and give it too you. As for monthly updates, Im sure it would take less than 5 minutes as not many clan wars (on average) end per month. Gathering the initial data would take some time, but I am a bum with a part time job who lives in his parents basement. Ive got the time, just keep me updated.

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Re: Suggestion to improve efficiency of clan ranking process

Postby FarangDemon on Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:24 am

jigger1986 wrote:Farang,

As I said, I'll be happy to do the stats gathering if jp wont (or doesnt have time) I can record the info using notepad and give it too you. As for monthly updates, Im sure it would take less than 5 minutes as not many clan wars (on average) end per month. Gathering the initial data would take some time, but I am a bum with a part time job who lives in his parents basement. Ive got the time, just keep me updated.

-jig


Cool! Then you are the man! :D

Here you can use this file to begin with so you don´t need to collect all previous results from scratch.

http://www.killersapp.com/AllData.txt

It contains all wars that had concluded by March 24, 2011. I had put it together by merging my own records from CL3 that had finished up to that date with data from jpcloet containing CL1 and 2 and all other wars.

This data only contains KoRT-LOW and IA-Myth CL3 quarterfinals results, so it needs remaining results from CL3 quarterfinals and semis. The data also does not have the KoRT-THOTA results. That had finished just afterward.

Once you finish updating the text file, you can either post it to a URL of your own choosing or just email it to me and I will do so.

One note - every time you spell a clan´s name you´ll need to spell it the same way it is spelled everywhere else in the file. Otherwise my script will think it´s a different clan.

Just try to use your best educated guess for end date of each challenge. I consider end date to be when final score is announced, which sometimes happens before all games have finished.

Also, please put results in chronological order, otherwise I´ll have to reorder it myself or change my script to reorder it. The way it currently is coded, it assumes the entries are in chronological order.
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Re: Which clan is number 1?

Postby ljex on Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:38 pm

TheSaxlad wrote:Ljex, firstly the algorithm of 400 takes into consideration all the concerns you just raised.

I will support this wholeheartedly. Just checked out the file which to me seems sound, so you have TNC's backing. Whether or not it deoesn't matter :D



The sax lad, your firstly the algorithm of 400...etc is false based on what i read of the algorithm of 400 and quite frankly it is true of all mathematical formulas. they rank based on past success not future expectations.

Oh and i think chucks is better because looking at the results provided by yours chucks gives what i believe to be a more accurate indication of where the clans fall. Anyway jp tried for years to develop a mathematical formula that worked gl with yours.
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Re: Suggestion to improve efficiency of clan ranking process

Postby Qwert on Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:13 pm

iljex,chuuck ranking its based on feels, not on result.
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