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Prevent New Members being farmed for points

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Re: Prevent New Members being farmed for points

Postby Woodruff on Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:10 am

Dibbun wrote:How hard is it to play a diverse group of players? Create 5 games with your favorite settings, join 5 other games...


The problem is that this website will hit you for "farming" if you do that when half the games you create with your favorite settings are joined by NRs.

Dibbun wrote:though honestly farming is not really strictly enforced here (not criticizing mods, just saying) and really the only punishment that comes down is if you invite NR's.


This is absolutely not true, unfortunately. There have been cases where individuals have been sanctioned for nothing more than having too many NRs join their games.

Dibbun wrote:This is such a stupid debate.

Just don't fucking farm

Not that damn hard. If all your games are being filled by ?'s then pick some different settings. No idea how people have 30+ games with all NR's and then are like "durrrrrr accident!"


A brilliant analysis, Dibbun...I'm so glad you could add your scintillating perspective.
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Re: Prevent New Members being farmed for points

Postby Qwert on Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:47 am

i think that you can put NR restriction in first 10 games, so that he only can play with max corporal rank, and when these 10 game finished,then restriction its lifted and new player can play with every rank.
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Re: Prevent New Members being farmed for points

Postby Dibbun on Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:42 am

Woodruff wrote:
Dibbun wrote:though honestly farming is not really strictly enforced here (not criticizing mods, just saying) and really the only punishment that comes down is if you invite NR's.


This is absolutely not true, unfortunately. There have been cases where individuals have been sanctioned for nothing more than having too many NRs join their games.



Look at the ad10 and *Snowman* decisions. Ad10 got off, *Snowman* only eventually got Noted because of invites. The recent precedents is to let volume slide and only hit on invites.
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Re: Prevent New Members being farmed for points

Postby zimmah on Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:48 am

TheForgivenOne wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
TheForgivenOne wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
The idea that you can be punished FOR SOMEONE ELSE'S ACTIONS is ludicrious. If someone is INVITING newbies to their games, sure then there's a case. But being punished because someone else joins your games of their own free choosing without impetus from you is an idiotic concept that goes against justice in almost every aspect. It's really quite sick, in my opinion.


So we should let people abuse this?


Abuse what? The rule should be that you can't JOIN GAMES with newbies...THAT is something you can control. As well, as I mentioned above, you should not be able to send invitations to newbies...again, THAT is something you can control. Who joins your games? You can't control that.


lackattack wrote:"Newbie Farming" is the technique of setting up as many games as possible (either by starting or joining them) with New Recruits


According to that, STARTING GAMES WITH NEW RECRUITS is apart of the Farming rule. That players score is not representing there skill if they shoot up the scoreboard all because a ton on NR's deadbeat against him and he gets free points. You can't claim ignorance all because "WELL OTHER PEOPLE COULD EASILY JOIN", it's pretty obvious people aren't.

And you can easily just up the amount of players to 6, VIOLA! You won't get New Recruits.


maybe so, but i have to agree on woodruff.

If you play a game setting and new recruits tend to like those settings as well, and you do not drop games with actual opponents, neither do you invite NRs, then i'd say t's not farming. As the intention is not farming NRs but just playng the map/settings you like.

against a new player who's deadbeating in all his games it's easy:

if a player has the rank of new recruit and misses ALL his turns in a game, he'll give no points at all.


Score in CC is not accuratly representing skill either way. there's a lot of things to consider.

there's many different maps, and if you specialize in 1 map/setting you'll constantly beat people playing your settings (no matter NR or high-ranked players that happen to play other settings). however if you play said player (which should have a high rank because of farming those settings) on your map, you'll beat hm with ease. So score is just settings-wide, not global, yet, the score is globaly equal, which means even if you play a map you don't know, your score will be just the same, not actually representing your skill in those settings.

As wel as countless people who farm freestyle and have nothing else to do then taking their turns almost 24/7 to make sure they can act fast at any situation, getting a major advantage over people with a real life. etc.
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Re: Prevent New Members being farmed for points

Postby Woodruff on Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:59 am

Dibbun wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Dibbun wrote:though honestly farming is not really strictly enforced here (not criticizing mods, just saying) and really the only punishment that comes down is if you invite NR's.


This is absolutely not true, unfortunately. There have been cases where individuals have been sanctioned for nothing more than having too many NRs join their games.



Look at the ad10 and *Snowman* decisions. Ad10 got off, *Snowman* only eventually got Noted because of invites. The recent precedents is to let volume slide and only hit on invites.


That is true of those two recent decisions, but they are certainly not all of the decisions handed down in this regard. As you can clearly see in the rules, you can be sanctioned for it, and users have been. PER THE SITE RULES.

Even that aside though, the idea that a player cannot play their favorite maps/settings simply because they have to fear that they will be sanctioned because too many NRs join their games is ridiculous when it could EASILY be resolved by very simply allowing rank restrictions to be placed on games. Honestly, there is no logical reason against it...it is simply that the site owner doesn't like the idea.
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Re: Prevent New Members being farmed for points

Postby Dibbun on Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:40 pm

Lack has already said on multiple occasions that he doesn't want there to be rank restrictions on games. Use the "Callouts" forum.
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Re: Prevent New Members being farmed for points

Postby OliverFA on Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:22 pm

zimmah wrote:there's many different maps, and if you specialize in 1 map/setting you'll constantly beat people playing your settings (no matter NR or high-ranked players that happen to play other settings). however if you play said player (which should have a high rank because of farming those settings) on your map, you'll beat hm with ease. So score is just settings-wide, not global, yet, the score is globaly equal, which means even if you play a map you don't know, your score will be just the same, not actually representing your skill in those settings.


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Re: Prevent New Members being farmed for points

Postby tkr4lf on Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:41 pm

OliverFA wrote:
zimmah wrote:there's many different maps, and if you specialize in 1 map/setting you'll constantly beat people playing your settings (no matter NR or high-ranked players that happen to play other settings). however if you play said player (which should have a high rank because of farming those settings) on your map, you'll beat hm with ease. So score is just settings-wide, not global, yet, the score is globaly equal, which means even if you play a map you don't know, your score will be just the same, not actually representing your skill in those settings.


100% true

That is true. But completely irrelevant to the discussion.

So what if somebody's score doesn't accurately reflect their skill? As long as people can play the maps/settings that they desire, without fear of getting into trouble because too many NR's join their games, then that's all that should matter. As long as people are having fun. That is the point of this whole web site, is it not?
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Re: Prevent New Members being farmed for points

Postby TheForgivenOne on Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:42 pm

zimmah wrote:there's many different maps, and if you specialize in 1 map/setting you'll constantly beat people playing your settings (no matter NR or high-ranked players that happen to play other settings).


I don't think that is true on all cases. I could play Classic map on a simple setting all day, and doesn't mean i'm gonna get good at it.
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Re: Prevent New Members being farmed for points

Postby Woodruff on Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Dibbun wrote:Lack has already said on multiple occasions that he doesn't want there to be rank restrictions on games.


Yes, I know...in fact, I've plainly stated as much in the post you're responding to. Do you even bother to read what other people type?
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Re: Prevent New Members being farmed for points

Postby Woodruff on Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:17 pm

tkr4lf wrote:
OliverFA wrote:
zimmah wrote:there's many different maps, and if you specialize in 1 map/setting you'll constantly beat people playing your settings (no matter NR or high-ranked players that happen to play other settings). however if you play said player (which should have a high rank because of farming those settings) on your map, you'll beat hm with ease. So score is just settings-wide, not global, yet, the score is globaly equal, which means even if you play a map you don't know, your score will be just the same, not actually representing your skill in those settings.


100% true

That is true. But completely irrelevant to the discussion.

So what if somebody's score doesn't accurately reflect their skill? As long as people can play the maps/settings that they desire, without fear of getting into trouble because too many NR's join their games, then that's all that should matter. As long as people are having fun. That is the point of this whole web site, is it not?


Actually, it's a counter to a point that was brought up earlier in the thread, so it's certainly relevant.
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Re: Prevent New Members being farmed for points

Postby Woodruff on Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:18 pm

TheForgivenOne wrote:
zimmah wrote:there's many different maps, and if you specialize in 1 map/setting you'll constantly beat people playing your settings (no matter NR or high-ranked players that happen to play other settings).


I don't think that is true on all cases. I could play Classic map on a simple setting all day, and doesn't mean i'm gonna get good at it.


It should, quite frankly. Or, I suppose to put it in simpler terms, you will become as good at that map as you CAN get...I suppose that's not necessarily the same as "good" if you simply have no talent for the game.
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Re: Prevent New Members being farmed for points

Postby TheForgivenOne on Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:21 pm

Woodruff wrote:
TheForgivenOne wrote:
zimmah wrote:there's many different maps, and if you specialize in 1 map/setting you'll constantly beat people playing your settings (no matter NR or high-ranked players that happen to play other settings).


I don't think that is true on all cases. I could play Classic map on a simple setting all day, and doesn't mean i'm gonna get good at it.


It should, quite frankly. Or, I suppose to put it in simpler terms, you will become as good at that map as you CAN get...I suppose that's not necessarily the same as "good" if you simply have no talent for the game.


That's what I meant. Just because you play a map/setting all day, doesn't mean you are gonna constantly beat people on it. If you aren't talented, like me, you may have to rely on luck/drop/dice.
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Re: Prevent New Members being farmed for points

Postby zimmah on Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:31 pm

TheForgivenOne wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
TheForgivenOne wrote:
zimmah wrote:there's many different maps, and if you specialize in 1 map/setting you'll constantly beat people playing your settings (no matter NR or high-ranked players that happen to play other settings).


I don't think that is true on all cases. I could play Classic map on a simple setting all day, and doesn't mean i'm gonna get good at it.


It should, quite frankly. Or, I suppose to put it in simpler terms, you will become as good at that map as you CAN get...I suppose that's not necessarily the same as "good" if you simply have no talent for the game.


That's what I meant. Just because you play a map/setting all day, doesn't mean you are gonna constantly beat people on it. If you aren't talented, like me, you may have to rely on luck/drop/dice.


ok, constantly might be a little over the top but still enough to get to a rank like major/colonel.

also, haven't even talked about team games with arranged (veteran) teams. (or worse, a veteran with a low-score buddy who follows strict orders from the veteran without fail). against a team consisting of random individuals, who lack any teamwork skills. Those games are often onesided.

take for example david hoekstra, he has a really high score and a high win ratio. however he basicly plays 3 different maps. (waterloo, europa and city mogul). now if someone would take a different map and challange him in settings he's really good at, david may lose much more often then he'd normally would. that's just common sense. it's very unlikely someone is equally good in all maps and settings possible.
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