All Your Base Are Belong To Us

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us

Postby DiM on Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:27 pm

Map theme: SciFi
Number of players: 2-8
Number of terits: 85 (many start neutral)
Special features: neutrals, negative bonuses, bombard, one way attacks, ranged attacks, wining condition, etc.
Map developer: Art/Concept by DiM and XML by Victor Sullivan
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show: Map Instructions

Graphic guide:
Click image to enlarge.
image



FINAL VERSION
XML: http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/12/18/3040650//AllYourBaseAreBelongToUs2.xml

small:http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/3373/allyourbasearebelongtoun.png
Click image to enlarge.
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large:http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/6838/allyourbasearebelongtou.png
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image

show: tests



show: V15

show: V14

show: V13

show: V12

show: V11

show: V10

show: V9

show: V8

show: V7

show: V6

show: V5

show: V4

show: V3

show: V2

show: V1
Last edited by DiM on Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:45 pm, edited 39 times in total.
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us [10.Aug.11] - V1 p1

Postby KoolBak on Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:56 pm

I like it! Go brother go!!
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us [10.Aug.11] - V1 p1

Postby Victor Sullivan on Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:00 pm

Hey DiM! It's an intriguing concept to be sure...

DiM wrote:for each race to get to the level 3 tech they must also master the tech of the opponent. for example if i start as a human base i must get to the second row of human tech 2 and i must also get to the second row of alien tech 2. but i'm not sure if this is possible with the current xml.
if it's not i'll have to find another way of getting to tech lvl 3.

First off, this is not possible with the current XML. I think this would go under "Conditional Borders" on the wish list. Secondly, despite all the fancy symbols and tech trees, there doesn't seem to be much gameplay "meat". The first territories of each tech level do nothing but yield an auto-deploy, though the second set of territories in each level at least get bombardment powers as well, but then what's the purpose of there being two rows of territories in each tech level? Why not consolidate? The geographical area seems to have the single purpose of getting to a DNA lab/nuclear silo to get to the second level of the tech tree...which, I suppose, puts more focus on the tech trees/levels and using their respective bombardment powers, but I feel this map may become too systematic, especially being a conquest map. Also, I've noticed the only source of any deployable bonus is via the standard territory bonus - all bonuses sources you've included are solely auto-deploys, which doesn't seem conducive to real solid bonus system, and more importantly, it contributes more to that systematic feel. Perhaps consider including some sort of resource territory that supplies a bonus (possibly via techs, if you so choose). I mean, think about it, the aliens aren't risking their lives fighting on Earth just for kicks and giggles to see if they can best an intelligent (or so I like to think) race. Of course not! There here for something, so why not a particular resource that only Earth can provide? Plus, there seems to be a lack of geographical territories. I particularly think there aren't enough 'plain' territories. I think some, most, or all of the plain territories (particularly/especially if more are added) could stand to not be neutral, so as to, like I mentioned before, make it be less conquest and one-trick-pony-y. As for your winning conditions, they're all certainly possible as far as coding/XML is concerned and I'm fond of the concept of multiple winning conditions, but it is imperative that they are all equally obtainable by all players, so as to make the game be as balanced as possible, which I'm currently not convinced. The losing conditions sound good to me. Graphically speaking, it looks nice, though you could stand to one, make the title more prominent, as it's rather faded, two, cut off a lot from the top and bottom, as the map itself takes up only three-fifths of the image currently, and three, the text looks rather pixelated.

Those are my initial thoughts, anyway. I apologize if they seem disorganized.

-Sully
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us [10.Aug.11] - V1 p1

Postby cairnswk on Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:04 pm

And i thought you was gonna throw the towel in...when all the time you was cooking up another storm....you tricked us :lol:
One thing though right up, it's difficult to read the title, and some of the Tech levels because of the glare.
Great graphics idea/start...World 3000. I'll give you more when i see the instructions in the legend.
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us [10.Aug.11] - V1 p1

Postby DiM on Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:23 pm

lol cairns. i haven't been cooking anything.
earlier today i was toying around with some tutorials and one thing led to another and i got myself an image, then decided to make a map. i certainly wasn't planning for it. in fact the gameplay is clearly very undeveloped as i didn't bother to work too much on it.
i've noted your graphic concerns and i'll attend to them as soon as i get a better/clearer gameplay going on.
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us [10.Aug.11] - V1 p1

Postby DiM on Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:35 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:Hey DiM! It's an intriguing concept to be sure...

DiM wrote:for each race to get to the level 3 tech they must also master the tech of the opponent. for example if i start as a human base i must get to the second row of human tech 2 and i must also get to the second row of alien tech 2. but i'm not sure if this is possible with the current xml.
if it's not i'll have to find another way of getting to tech lvl 3.

First off, this is not possible with the current XML. I think this would go under "Conditional Borders" on the wish list.


that sucks :(

Victor Sullivan wrote:Secondly, despite all the fancy symbols and tech trees, there doesn't seem to be much gameplay "meat". The first territories of each tech level do nothing but yield an auto-deploy, though the second set of territories in each level at least get bombardment powers as well, but then what's the purpose of there being two rows of territories in each tech level? Why not consolidate?


actually the first row + the second row give an "in hand" bonus
HT1.1+HT1.4 = +2
HT1.2+HT1.5 = +2
HT1.3+HT1.6 = +2
(same for alien tech tree)
HT2.1+HT2.4=+3
HT2.2+HT2.5=+3
HT2.3+HT2.6=+3
(same for alien tech tree)

so you have bases nukes and labs that autodeploy and the techs that give deployable bonuses.

Victor Sullivan wrote: The geographical area seems to have the single purpose of getting to a DNA lab/nuclear silo to get to the second level of the tech tree...which, I suppose, puts more focus on the tech trees/levels and using their respective bombardment powers, but I feel this map may become too systematic, especially being a conquest map. Also, I've noticed the only source of any deployable bonus is via the standard territory bonus - all bonuses sources you've included are solely auto-deploys, which doesn't seem conducive to real solid bonus system, and more importantly, it contributes more to that systematic feel. Perhaps consider including some sort of resource territory that supplies a bonus (possibly via techs, if you so choose). I mean, think about it, the aliens aren't risking their lives fighting on Earth just for kicks and giggles to see if they can best an intelligent (or so I like to think) race. Of course not! There here for something, so why not a particular resource that only Earth can provide?


see above. there are 12 deployable bonuses in the tech tree that give a total of +30.


Victor Sullivan wrote:Plus, there seems to be a lack of geographical territories. I particularly think there aren't enough 'plain' territories. I think some, most, or all of the plain territories (particularly/especially if more are added) could stand to not be neutral, so as to, like I mentioned before, make it be less conquest and one-trick-pony-y.


more terits could easily be added. in fact i was thinking of adding some terits in the oceans to profit from all the space available. it's the future so i'm pretty sure floating cities will be possible :)
however i do want to keep the bases.
i'm not sure if this is possible but maybe have 8 bases and each player gets 1 at start and X other terits that get distributed randomly. can this be done? have random terits but also make sure each player gets 1 base? if this is possible then i clearly like this solution.

Victor Sullivan wrote:As for your winning conditions, they're all certainly possible as far as coding/XML is concerned and I'm fond of the concept of multiple winning conditions, but it is imperative that they are all equally obtainable by all players, so as to make the game be as balanced as possible, which I'm currently not convinced.


if multiple winning conditions are possible then that's all i need to hear. making them equally obtainable will be a tough thing but it will be done.

Victor Sullivan wrote:The losing conditions sound good to me.


great.

Victor Sullivan wrote:Graphically speaking, it looks nice, though you could stand to one, make the title more prominent, as it's rather faded, two, cut off a lot from the top and bottom, as the map itself takes up only three-fifths of the image currently, and three, the text looks rather pixelated.


i will probably make another draft tomorrow with more terits and i'll also try to maximize the space usage.

Victor Sullivan wrote:Those are my initial thoughts, anyway. I apologize if they seem disorganized.

-Sully


thanks for the feedback
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us [10.Aug.11] - V1 p1

Postby Victor Sullivan on Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:02 pm

D'oh! I guess I assumed those bonuses were auto-deploys. Shows how much I'm paying attention, I guess! ](*,) I suppose that works, though I feel you could tie these bonuses with the whole resource concept like I mentioned before. Right now the techs seem rather...abstract. What are they? Think of R&C - each tech actually is called something, like it's (a) legitimate research/technology.

DiM wrote:i'm not sure if this is possible but maybe have 8 bases and each player gets 1 at start and X other terits that get distributed randomly. can this be done? have random terits but also make sure each player gets 1 base? if this is possible then i clearly like this solution.

That's precisely what I meant, actually. And yes! It is possible! :D

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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us [10.Aug.11] - V1 p1

Postby DiM on Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:49 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:D'oh! I guess I assumed those bonuses were auto-deploys. Shows how much I'm paying attention, I guess! ](*,) I suppose that works, though I feel you could tie these bonuses with the whole resource concept like I mentioned before. Right now the techs seem rather...abstract. What are they? Think of R&C - each tech actually is called something, like it's (a) legitimate research/technology.


it's actually also my fault because i have the image with no working legend.
as promised i made a new version which uses the free space much better.
gameplay mechanics should be clearer now.
and in the meantime i'll work on adding more terits.

Victor Sullivan wrote:
DiM wrote:i'm not sure if this is possible but maybe have 8 bases and each player gets 1 at start and X other terits that get distributed randomly. can this be done? have random terits but also make sure each player gets 1 base? if this is possible then i clearly like this solution.

That's precisely what I meant, actually. And yes! It is possible! :D

-Sully


perfect.

V2:
added more legend space,
and lots of text
and more terits on the map
improved visibility of the title
muted the texture of the earth to make the connections more visible
Click image to enlarge.
image
Last edited by DiM on Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us [11.Aug.11] - V2 p1

Postby Victor Sullivan on Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:56 pm

Connections to and from the techs will have to be explained in the legend as well, don't forget! ;)

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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us [11.Aug.11] - V2 p1

Postby DiM on Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:14 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:Connections to and from the techs will have to be explained in the legend as well, don't forget! ;)

-Sully


updated in the image above. and also added new terits on the map.
you might need to hit ctrl+F5 to do a clear cache refresh.
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us [11.Aug.11] - V2 p1

Postby Victor Sullivan on Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:20 pm

DiM wrote:
Victor Sullivan wrote:Connections to and from the techs will have to be explained in the legend as well, don't forget! ;)

-Sully


updated in the image above. and also added new terits on the map.
you might need to hit ctrl+F5 to do a clear cache refresh.

I see it, thanks! Don't forget the silos' and labs' being able to attack level 2. And we still have to figure out how one can get to level 3!

-Sully
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us [11.Aug.11] - V2 p1

Postby DiM on Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:31 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:
DiM wrote:
Victor Sullivan wrote:Connections to and from the techs will have to be explained in the legend as well, don't forget! ;)

-Sully


updated in the image above. and also added new terits on the map.
you might need to hit ctrl+F5 to do a clear cache refresh.

I see it, thanks! Don't forget the silos' and labs' being able to attack level 2. And we still have to figure out how one can get to level 3!

-Sully


added the silos and labs in the image above.

as for getting to level 3 i'm out of ideas at this moment. it's 04:31 and i'm going to sleep. hopefully when i wake up i'll get a good idea.

oh, and i'll need to start thinking of neutral values. 8-[
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us [10.Aug.11] - V1 p1

Postby isaiah40 on Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:47 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:Hey DiM! It's an intriguing concept to be sure...

DiM wrote:for each race to get to the level 3 tech they must also master the tech of the opponent. for example if i start as a human base i must get to the second row of human tech 2 and i must also get to the second row of alien tech 2. but i'm not sure if this is possible with the current xml.
if it's not i'll have to find another way of getting to tech lvl 3.

First off, this is not possible with the current XML. I think this would go under "Conditional Borders" on the wish list.


If I remember, I think you can work around it by listing Level 3 as a bonus and then requiring all 24 territories as required to receive it. Though it would create a slightly larger file. But eh what do I know, I'm not an XML specialist!
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us [10.Aug.11] - V1 p1

Postby Victor Sullivan on Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:20 pm

isaiah40 wrote:
Victor Sullivan wrote:Hey DiM! It's an intriguing concept to be sure...

DiM wrote:for each race to get to the level 3 tech they must also master the tech of the opponent. for example if i start as a human base i must get to the second row of human tech 2 and i must also get to the second row of alien tech 2. but i'm not sure if this is possible with the current xml.
if it's not i'll have to find another way of getting to tech lvl 3.

First off, this is not possible with the current XML. I think this would go under "Conditional Borders" on the wish list.


If I remember, I think you can work around it by listing Level 3 as a bonus and then requiring all 24 territories as required to receive it. Though it would create a slightly larger file. But eh what do I know, I'm not an XML specialist!

I think he's talking about Level 3 access not the Level 3 bonus. Thus, it falls under Conditional Borders, which isn't possible at the moment.

-Sully

EDIT: Can I do the XML for this one if zimmah hasn't already called dibs? 8-[
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us [10.Aug.11] - V1 p1

Postby DiM on Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:19 am

Victor Sullivan wrote:
isaiah40 wrote:
Victor Sullivan wrote:Hey DiM! It's an intriguing concept to be sure...

DiM wrote:for each race to get to the level 3 tech they must also master the tech of the opponent. for example if i start as a human base i must get to the second row of human tech 2 and i must also get to the second row of alien tech 2. but i'm not sure if this is possible with the current xml.
if it's not i'll have to find another way of getting to tech lvl 3.

First off, this is not possible with the current XML. I think this would go under "Conditional Borders" on the wish list.


If I remember, I think you can work around it by listing Level 3 as a bonus and then requiring all 24 territories as required to receive it. Though it would create a slightly larger file. But eh what do I know, I'm not an XML specialist!

I think he's talking about Level 3 access not the Level 3 bonus. Thus, it falls under Conditional Borders, which isn't possible at the moment.

-Sully


for a moment there i had hope. then sully crushed it. :lol:

Victor Sullivan wrote:EDIT: Can I do the XML for this one if zimmah hasn't already called dibs? 8-[


i haven't talked to anybody about the xml. in fact i actually wanted to do the xml myself but i think i may be in over my head so if you want to do it you're more than welcome. i'll do my own xml on a simpler map :)
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us [11.Aug.11] - V2 p1

Postby zimmah on Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:28 am

lol, i thnk R&C inspired you to do this one?

nice one.

P.S. could you use a brighter color for attack lines. i feel the red on black is a little hard to see sometimes. might be me, but i'd probably prefer something more standing out.
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us [11.Aug.11] - V2 p1

Postby zimmah on Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:36 am

DiM wrote:
1. hold the whole tech 3 for any race - this should be possible
2. take all alien labs if you started as a human base or all human silos if you started as an alien
3. hold all nukes if you started as a human or hold all labs if you started as an alien

3 is possible, but only if it's impossable to take each others base (with taking mean assaulting and conquering)
because there is currently no way to make winning conditions or continents that accept starting positions as a component.

however if there is no way to 'acquire' another base there is a way to work around that issue by using normal continents for this purpose. and using bombardments, it's still possible to eliminate someone's base.

say for example someone would start as an alien, but takes a human base, he now holds both bases, there's no way to 'tell' the xml if a player started as human or as alien, so that would make 2 impossible. 3 however is possible, as someone with an alien base would then not be able to ever acquire a human base, so any player holding an alien base must have had started with one, or he'd never be able to have one, so if he holds an alien base and all labs, he has the #3 victory condition.

Victor Sullivan wrote:EDIT: Can I do the XML for this one if zimmah hasn't already called dibs? 8-[

nope, i only saw this tread just now, so you're first to call. i liked to work with DiM on steamworks, so i'd like to do the XML for him on other maps as well, but i'll let DiM decide if he likes you or me to write the XML.

i also have some more maps in mind i'd like to make, but i need artists, can't find anyone to help me tho :(
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us [11.Aug.11] - V2 p1

Postby natty dread on Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:04 am

Cool map, very nice graphics.

I'm not too fond of the name though. AYBABTU is an old joke by now, it's been overused ad nauseum... It's not really funny anymore. I'm sure you can come up with a better name for the map.
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us [11.Aug.11] - V2 p1

Postby DiM on Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:46 am

i added neutrals on the map.
the gameplay is basically like this. each player gets a base and a few non important terits.
from there each player can either expand on earth or focus on technologies. but watch out. tech slots are limited not all people will have theirs and fighting will occur. tech lvl 1 not only gives a bonus but it also allows bombardment of non important terits from the second row (1.4-1.5-.16)
to get to texh level 2 you need either an alien dna lab or a human nuke silo. this time you battle more neutrals but also get a heftier bonus and the chance to bombard the opponents' dna/nukes from the second row (2.4-2.5-2.6)
and once you have mastered the tech lvl 2 by conquering its second row you can access the first row of tech lvl 3. from there you can either attack enemy bases or you can go for the second row and master the tech to win the game.
now i'd like to add 2 more winning conditions:
1. hold a human base and all alien dna labs
2. hold an alien base and all human nuke silos
would this be too easy to do? on one hand they might seem easier to take than those 6 terits from tech lvl 3. but then again all those nukes/labs are very exposed to attacks from the land as well as bombardments from the tech tree, while the tech lvl 3 is not that hard to defend. thoughts?

V3.
added neutrals
finalized the legend and included all attack rules and all bonuses.
Click image to enlarge.
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us [11.Aug.11] - V2 p1

Postby DiM on Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:52 am

zimmah wrote:lol, i thnk R&C inspired you to do this one?


partially

zimmah wrote:P.S. could you use a brighter color for attack lines. i feel the red on black is a little hard to see sometimes. might be me, but i'd probably prefer something more standing out.


as soon as i finish the gameplay area and decide on the final number of terits and their position i will make sure i have perfectly visible connections.
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us [11.Aug.11] - V2 p1

Postby DiM on Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:56 am

natty_dread wrote:Cool map, very nice graphics.

I'm not too fond of the name though. AYBABTU is an old joke by now, it's been overused ad nauseum... It's not really funny anymore. I'm sure you can come up with a better name for the map.


i resent that. i actually played that game back in the early nineties. if that's an old joke than that means i'm also old... and i'm not :cry:
with all the human bases and alien bases on the map it was only natural to think of that name. :lol:
i'm not saying that i will change it or not but i am open for suggestions. if more people think aybabtu is a bad name and i get a good suggestion i'll probably do it.
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us [11.Aug.11] - V3 p1&3

Postby The Bison King on Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:03 am

well if no one else is gonna say it...


What you say?!
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us [11.Aug.11] - V3 p1&3

Postby DiM on Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:28 am

The Bison King wrote:well if no one else is gonna say it...


What you say?!



Someone set up us the bomb :lol:
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us [11.Aug.11] - V3 p1&3

Postby mr. CD on Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:41 am

Looking terribly well, I love it.
Keep up the good work, DiM.
I find the HT to AT part of the legend in the middle (bottom) rather hard to read though.
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us [11.Aug.11] - V3 p1&3

Postby natty dread on Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:47 am

Well I have a few suggestions... not sure how good they are.

"Alien War"
"Invaders of Space"
"Space Invasion"

You could still use AYBABTU as a subtitle, if you want... to give the map some flavour.
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