Salem's Switch V36 [Quenched]

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Re: Salem's Switch [19.8.11] V9-P8 Bonus Nomenclature Discus

Postby isaiah40 on Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:41 pm

HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE! Now for my witches brew! HEHEHEHEHEHEHE!

First I add in a little bat dung, then a pinch of impatience, a ladle of oranges, a few twigs, then I let it simmer for a time. Thou now hath...





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Re: Salem's Switch [19.8.11] V9-P8 Bonus Nomenclature Discus

Postby cairnswk on Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:17 pm

isaiah40 wrote:HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE! Now for my witches brew! HEHEHEHEHEHEHE!
First I add in a little bat dung, then a pinch of impatience, a ladle of oranges, a few twigs, then I let it simmer for a time. Thou now hath...

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Thank-you good witch HEHEHEHEHEHE...!
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Re: Salem's Switch [19.8.11] V9-P8 Bonus Nomenclature Discus

Postby cairnswk on Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:39 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:...
  • Thy Bonuses!
    • I'm not really sure how you determined the bonuses, but with this layout, a good rule of thumb is +1 per territory, given that they are spread out.
OK, noted.

I do like the idea that natty proposed with the 'resource pair' concept between the accusers and accused.
The way its worded may seem like any accused will do.
Can you expand on this one a bit more please.

For the Gossip, I think it could stand to be altered a bit. First, the town meeting places bonus should be nixed since it's apart of the Gossip bonus already.
OK. Perhaps +1

Second, I think you should do the Gossip bonus like a +X per Y with a town meeting place, such as, +2 per 5 villagers, or something of the like.
Noted

As for the Landowners bonus, you could probably leave it as is, but it may need some tweaking for 1v1s and 3-player games where one might drop 7 or more Landowners.
OK.

  • Thy Clarity!
    First, the hanged. I assume the hanged are those outlined in blue, but it's not clear.
  • Yes, obviously that colour/design needs work


    Second, you don't define "villagers", so I'm not sure if you mean the Landowners or everyone or whoever.
    OK. Redefined

    Third, are the roads impassable? One would assume, but it doesn't specifically say.
    Fixed

    Fourth, the colors are all very similar, making it a tad difficult to distinguish regions at a glance. Perhaps different army circles could help distinguish accuser from accused from reverend from judge from well, you get the idea?
    OK, i'll investigate


    Fifth, Dr W Grigg has a color all his own that's not explained in the legend.
    Sixth, "All of Witch Hill, Prison, Judges, & Any Hanged" is hard to read with its colors, and "All of" seems unnecessary and just confuses me.
    Seventh, is Witch Hill a Judge? Seems a bit odd to me.
    Eighth, the word 'assaults' should not be used like that in the "Gossip" portion of the legend, given its association to attacking other territories in the CC context.
    Ninth, I noticed there's a "Judge Crowin" and a "Jonothan Corwin" - is that correct? I thought given that their last names are so close, they maybe were supposed to be the same.

    I'll fix all that.
    Tenth, the "Buggy Stops" portion of the legend should be rewritten, as it's a bit confusing as it's written. I suggest something like this:
    "Killer neutral Buggy Stops can be assaulted by adjacent regions and can assault adjacent regions and adjacent Buggy Stops via the roadways."

    Fixed. But i prefer "Killer neutral Buggy Stops (-2) can be assaulted by
    and can assault to adjacent regions and adjacent Buggy Stops (via the roadways)".
    I'll fix all that.

    [*]Thy Graphical Nitpicks!
    [list][*]First, the names of the reverends are hard to read, given the color of the region and text. Second, J. Trask, C. Blake, J. Raymont, Lot Conant, Sarah Cloyce and Reverends J. Higginson are all bolded for some reason. Third, Old Planter Farms isn't condensed and isn't as bright a white as the others. Fourth, Judge Crowin doesn't have a drop shadow.

    OK i'll do something about those.
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    Re: Salem's Switch [19.8.11] V9-P8 Bonus Nomenclature Discus

    Postby cairnswk on Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:44 pm

    natty_dread wrote:Firstly... this should get a draft stamp.

    Thank-you

    Some ideas then...

    I think the map could use some easy bonuses. Most of the bonuses on the map are spread around, making them hard to defend... there's no small, easily defended bonuses that are valuable in the early game.

    The 29 feb accuser bonus, for example, is 5 territories all spread around, and only gives you +2. Maybe you could convert it to a collectible bonus that would give +1 for each 2 or something? And maybe merge it with the 5 mar accuser bonus, since there's no corresponding accused to it...

    OK. i'll think on that.

    Also.. were the roads impassables?

    yes, that is fixed next version.
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    Re: Salem's Switch [19.8.11] V9-P8 Bonus Nomenclature Discus

    Postby Victor Sullivan on Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:50 pm

    cairnswk wrote:
    I do like the idea that natty proposed with the 'resource pair' concept between the accusers and accused.
    The way its worded may seem like any accused will do.
    Can you expand on this one a bit more please.

    Oh yes. Firstly, that second sentence shouldn't be there :? Second, for the 'resource pair' bonus system, it would be something like, "+1 for holding an accuser and an accused".

    -Rev. Sully
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    Re: Salem's Switch [19.8.11] V9-P8 Bonus Nomenclature Discus

    Postby cairnswk on Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:45 pm

    Victor Sullivan wrote:
    cairnswk wrote:
    I do like the idea that natty proposed with the 'resource pair' concept between the accusers and accused.
    The way its worded may seem like any accused will do.
    Can you expand on this one a bit more please.

    Oh yes. Firstly, that second sentence shouldn't be there :? Second, for the 'resource pair' bonus system, it would be something like, "+1 for holding an accuser and an accused".

    -Rev. Sully

    Yes i understand that concept, but why is it you want it used, what purpose does it serve in the scheme of things.
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    Re: Salem's Switch [19.8.11] V9-P8 Bonus Nomenclature Discus

    Postby Victor Sullivan on Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:54 pm

    cairnswk wrote:
    Victor Sullivan wrote:
    cairnswk wrote:
    I do like the idea that natty proposed with the 'resource pair' concept between the accusers and accused.
    The way its worded may seem like any accused will do.
    Can you expand on this one a bit more please.

    Oh yes. Firstly, that second sentence shouldn't be there :? Second, for the 'resource pair' bonus system, it would be something like, "+1 for holding an accuser and an accused".

    -Rev. Sully

    Yes i understand that concept, but why is it you want it used, what purpose does it serve in the scheme of things.

    In my opinion, it seems to fit the theme better. Like the accuser accuses someone, yes? I hope I'm making sense :?

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    Re: Salem's Switch [22.8.11] V10-P9

    Postby cairnswk on Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:29 pm

    Here is V10.
    1. Obviously the fixes from Sully and Natty above.
    2. Movement of various legend aspects
    3. Temporary hanged symbol - this will prbably be replaced by a hangman's noose
    4. added some extra width just temporarily to see how much room i'll need to fit all these changes in.
    5. Large will be done later when gameplay is finished

    Version 10 Small
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    Re: Salem's Switch [22.8.11] V10-P9 Gameplay Discussion

    Postby natty dread on Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:41 pm

    Looks good! I'll take a closer look tomorrow...
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    Re: Salem's Switch [22.8.11] V10-P9 Gameplay Discussion

    Postby Nola_Lifer on Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:07 am

    Few things here. Gossip is hard to read in the green there in the top left.
    The white with the font is hard to read on legen and some what on the board.
    You miss spelled against.
    You have persons hung, but what about it?
    On a side note, it would be interesting to see that the buggy stops can attack any adjacent region on that road. For example, if you were to take B16 you could attack William Osbourne, Alice Shaflin, Family stone, Josepht Buxton, George Jacobs Sn. and Trasks Mills.
    :D
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    Re: Salem's Switch [22.8.11] V10-P9 Gameplay Discussion

    Postby cairnswk on Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:46 am

    Thanks Nola-lifer for commenting :)
    Nola_Lifer wrote:Few things here. Gossip is hard to read in the green there in the top left.

    OK i'll try to fix that
    The white with the font is hard to read on legen and some what on the board.

    New colour required perhaps ? Different font ? I'd like to retain some character font on the map.
    You miss spelled against.

    if you mean agin...it is not misspelled...even though Salem is not Upper Southern U.S., i think it is appropriate use.
    a·gin (-gn) Chiefly Upper Southern U.S.
    prep.
    1. Against.
    2. Opposed to: I'm agin him.

    You have persons hung, but what about it?

    Well, not mentioned in the story but true to history, those persons were hung as result of the gossiping and witch trials...

    On a side note, it would be interesting to see that the buggy stops can attack any adjacent region on that road. For example, if you were to take B16 you could attack William Osbourne, Alice Shaflin, Family stone, Josepht Buxton, George Jacobs Sn. and Trasks Mills.
    :D

    I see what you mean, Yes it might be interesting, but that is not the gaemplay deisgned for these buggy stops, and i'd really like to stick to that gameplay, otherwise the map becomes too "normal"
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    Re: Salem's Switch [22.8.11] V10-P10

    Postby cairnswk on Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:47 am

    Current Version 10 Small
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    Re: Salem's Switch [22.8.11] V10-P9 Gameplay Discussion

    Postby natty dread on Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:03 pm

    One graphical thing that has been bothering me for a while: on the title, on the right eye there seems to be a hard line that looks weird... where the dark grey just kind of abruptly turns lighter. It'd be good to smooth out that line, make it more like the left side.

    Also what's up with Sarah Good... is she an accused and if so, why isn't the whole territory coloured like the rest? (Sorry if you've mentioned this somewhere, I may have missed it).

    So the Buggy stops reset to 2 neutrals? The legend is a bit ambiguous. It says they are killer neutrals, but the (-2) would imply a 2 troop decay... I think the wording of the legend could use a bit of clarification there.

    Is the 7 landowners bonus cumulative, ie. will you get +4 for holding 14? Or just the +2 for any amount over 7?

    The Judges bonus could be higher than 3, I think. There's 5 territories, all but 2 of them are spread around in different neighbourhoods... same with the reverends bonus. Although, I think both of these could use some kind of collection mechanism instead of a solid bonus for holding all of them. Something like a +2 for 3 maybe?

    One more thing, the first bonus has both Prison and Judges... but the Prison seems to be a part of the Judges bonus, so isn't it redundant mentioning them both?

    Keep up the good work. I like how this is shaping up, it's bound to be an interesting gameplay.
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    Re: Salem's Switch [22.8.11] V10-P9 Gameplay Discussion

    Postby Nola_Lifer on Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:02 pm

    I think its the spacing of the font and maybe not so much the color. Not sure, it just seems like everything is thrown together.
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    Re: Salem's Switch [22.8.11] V10-P9 Gameplay Discussion

    Postby cairnswk on Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:18 pm

    Nola_Lifer wrote:I think its the spacing of the font and maybe not so much the color. Not sure, it just seems like everything is thrown together.

    I've changed the font next version to Callibri so it is a lot clearer to read and even with the white looks good IMO. :)
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    Re: Salem's Switch [22.8.11] V10-P9 Gameplay Discussion

    Postby cairnswk on Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:20 pm

    natty_dread wrote:.... I like how this is shaping up, it's bound to be an interesting gameplay.

    Good, i'll get onto your stuff and post a new update on Thursday. Right now, uni is pressing.
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    Re: Salem's Switch [22.8.11] V10-P9 Gameplay Discussion

    Postby cairnswk on Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:01 am

    natty_dread wrote:One graphical thing that has been bothering me for a while: on the title, on the right eye there seems to be a hard line that looks weird... where the dark grey just kind of abruptly turns lighter. It'd be good to smooth out that line, make it more like the left side.

    Yes natty i know that is there and will address it more towards when the graphic are being done better...i want to try to do my own eyes in the same style - mean paint the eyes, not actually cairnswk's eyes.

    Also what's up with Sarah Good... is she an accused and if so, why isn't the whole territory coloured like the rest? (Sorry if you've mentioned this somewhere, I may have missed it).

    That was a hang over from something i was trying to differentiate the territories with. Gone with the wind = = ... :)

    So the Buggy stops reset to 2 neutrals? The legend is a bit ambiguous. It says they are killer neutrals, but the (-2) would imply a 2 troop decay... I think the wording of the legend could use a bit of clarification there.

    Yes i just removed the -2 from that text.

    Is the 7 landowners bonus cumulative, ie. will you get +4 for holding 14? Or just the +2 for any amount over 7?

    Well what do you think? Should it be/or not?


    One more thing, the first bonus has both Prison and Judges... but the Prison seems to be a part of the Judges bonus, so isn't it redundant mentioning them both?

    Yes i simply changed the colour of the prison. it wouldn't have been redundant to mention it anyway even if it had stayed red.

    The Judges bonus could be higher than 3, I think. There's 5 territories, all but 2 of them are spread around in different neighbourhoods... same with the reverends bonus. Although, I think both of these could use some kind of collection mechanism instead of a solid bonus for holding all of them. Something like a +2 for 3 maybe?


    OK, now this i would like to discuss more...
    Firstly, the Reverends....there are two in the map at large and two in the township. One is more than enough for the township i think. So, i was thinking of moving REv Noyes out of town and take up his space with a bigger Prison Space, and move the Town Common more over tyo the left.
    Then, there is a large space around Joseph Buxton and George Jacobs...could i make Rev Noyes a visitor to George Jacobs but still have him connected to the Buggy Stop without having to explain that in the legend (put a buggy behind him), and this way the reverends would be more spread out.
    Would that make Rev Noyes and Rev Higginson too closely located?
    Does Rev Noyes need to go over near Giles Cory and William Shaw for better placement?

    Thereafter, the Reverends bonus could change to something like:
    +3 for one Reverend and 6 landowners.

    Secondly, the Judges....
    Could there be a bonus for one judge and so many accussed or accussers?
    All the judges are based in town, which means that anyone wanting to gain that bonus would have to travel to town which could be quite a chore for some stuck up in the never reaches of the map.
    Should all the judges be killer neutrals or some kind of reduction neutrals in order to hold a bonus such as mentioned above.

    I'm simlply throwing some gameplay options out there for consideration because I think this has good potential to so somthing different.
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    Re: Salem's Switch [22.8.11] V10-P9 Gameplay Discussion

    Postby natty dread on Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:08 am

    cairnswk wrote:i want to try to do my own eyes in the same style - mean paint the eyes, not actually cairnswk's eyes.


    On the other hand it'd be kinda cool to have cairnswk's eyes on the map... give it a little personal touch :lol:

    cairnswk wrote:Well what do you think? Should it be/or not?


    I think, yes.

    cairnswk wrote:Does Rev Noyes need to go over near Giles Cory and William Shaw for better placement?


    That sounds good IMO... they'd be evenly accross the map that way.

    cairnswk wrote:Thereafter, the Reverends bonus could change to something like:
    +3 for one Reverend and 6 landowners.


    Hm, maybe 2 reverends and 5 landowners? Cumulative, so that 4 reverends and 10 landowners would give double, and so on...

    cairnswk wrote:Could there be a bonus for one judge and so many accussed or accussers?
    Should all the judges be killer neutrals or some kind of reduction neutrals in order to hold a bonus such as mentioned above.


    Well, firstly I don't think killer neutrals or decays would provide much of a gameplay improvement. Killer neutrals is out of the question since you could never hold them, and I fear even decays would still make the bonus unfeasible...

    Perhaps the judges could have a more dynamic role, such as bombarding the accused or hanged?
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    Re: Salem's Switch [22.8.11] V10-P9 Gameplay Discussion

    Postby ender516 on Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:45 am

    I like that bombardment idea. What if there were a constable,accessible only through the judges, who could bombard (with a summons or a subpoena)?
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    Re: Salem's Switch [22.8.11] V10-P9 Gameplay Discussion

    Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:12 am

    ender516 wrote:I like that bombardment idea. What if there were a constable,accessible only through the judges, who could bombard (with a summons or a subpoena)?


    Imagine taking this post out of the context of a map's gameplay discussion. It sounds strangely awesome.

    Anyways, this is my first real look at the map, and I'm afraid I don't have much to add in terms of gameplay, since it looks like the type of map I'd probably avoid playing on.

    The graphics are within the cairnswk niche with which I've become familiar (I think I could identify your maps because of the usual aesthetic you employ). I'll stop by again later, with some thoughts other than random first impressions. :)


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    Re: Salem's Switch [22.8.11] V10-P9 Gameplay Discussion

    Postby cairnswk on Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:43 pm

    Version 11 small.
    Changes:
    1. Clarified the buggy stops and road travel
    2. buggy stop names attached to army circles
    3. new icons for person hung
    4. prison colour changed so it is not confused as part of judges
    5. Rev Noyes moved over neat Giles Cory to balance map a bit more...too difficult to make him visiting in a buggy at present, but will think of ways to achieve this.
    6. Accussed and Accusser colour changes to make it easier on the eyes and clarify better the bonus and map territories

    Click image to enlarge.
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    Re: Salem's Switch [22.8.11] V10-P9 Gameplay Discussion

    Postby cairnswk on Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:06 pm

    ender516 wrote:I like that bombardment idea. What if there were a constable,accessible only through the judges, who could bombard (with a summons or a subpoena)?

    OK, i'll try to add something like that idea to the next version. Thanks ender516.
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    Re: Salem's Switch [22.8.11] V10-P9 Gameplay Discussion

    Postby cairnswk on Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:09 pm

    AndyDufresne wrote:...
    Anyways, this is my first real look at the map, and I'm afraid I don't have much to add in terms of gameplay, since it looks like the type of map I'd probably avoid playing on.

    Oh Andy, you nearly always say that about my maps, i wonder if there is ever going to be a time when...

    The graphics are within the cairnswk niche with which I've become familiar (I think I could identify your maps because of the usual aesthetic you employ).

    usual aesthetic or unusual aesthitic??

    I'll stop by again later, with some thoughts other than random first impressions. :)
    --Andy

    I look forward to that hopefully with better outcomes. :)
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    Re: Salem's Switch [25.8.11] V11-P10 Gameplay Discussion

    Postby cairnswk on Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:43 pm

    This is a very early look at how the armies might sit...
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    Re: Salem's Switch [22.8.11] V10-P9 Gameplay Discussion

    Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:25 am

    cairnswk wrote:
    AndyDufresne wrote:...
    Anyways, this is my first real look at the map, and I'm afraid I don't have much to add in terms of gameplay, since it looks like the type of map I'd probably avoid playing on.

    Oh Andy, you nearly always say that about my maps, i wonder if there is ever going to be a time when...

    If you ever get back to making a map like CCC, perhaps I'll have more in terms of gameplay discussion! But when it gets outside the realm of what I usually play, I leave it up to those who are more familiar with enhanced gameplay!

    I think the noose icon is on the right track, though probably not this iteration. It kind of looks like an upside down keyhole or something. I'm also not sure about the use of white for the icon, since it makes it blend in unassumingly.

    But something like this might be a good step: Image

    In regards to the top purple text, is that font bold? I wonder if it'd look better without the bold if it is, or a font with a little less bold.

    The legend on the right also has some chore to reading it. The gray on dark isn't too bad, but the red is a little so.


    --Andy
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