Three Kingdoms of Korea [Quenched]

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [4 Jul 2011]

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:21 pm

greenoaks wrote:why continue to call this Three Kingdoms of Korea, CC has decided it shall be Korea.


The map was renamed "Three Kingdoms of Korea". You ask, ConquerClub does it. ;)

thenobodies80 wrote:The latest update was sent to lackattack ;)


The update is now live.

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [15.8.11]

Postby natty dread on Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:52 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:The map was renamed "Three Kingdoms of Korea". You ask, ConquerClub does it. ;)


Damn, now I can't make the modern Korea map just to harass lack... oh well...

thenobodies80 wrote:The update is now live.


Nice, that was quick.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [15.8.11]

Postby natty dread on Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:55 pm

Instead of sending invites this time, I'm just posting this game here. First come, first served...

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [15.8.11]

Postby drunkmonkey on Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:42 pm

Question about the Wa bonus - BOB is showing the following in the text map:

Wa (2) Honshu(1) Kyushu(1)
Any capital (0) Qingdao(6) Pyongyang(1) Namgyeong(3) Gyeongju(8) Bon-Gaya(3)
Wa with a Capital (0) Any capital (0) Wa (2)


Shouldn't "Wa with a Capital" be (-2), to cancel out the Wa(2)? Or am I reading this incorrectly? I haven't held Wa with a capital to be sure how it acts.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [15.8.11]

Postby natty dread on Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:50 pm

drunkmonkey wrote:houldn't "Wa with a Capital" be (-2), to cancel out the Wa(2)? Or am I reading this incorrectly? I haven't held Wa with a capital to be sure how it acts.


Nope. The 0 bonus overrides the previous bonus. I don't know if BOB shows overrides.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [15.8.11]

Postby drunkmonkey on Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:55 pm

natty_dread wrote:
drunkmonkey wrote:houldn't "Wa with a Capital" be (-2), to cancel out the Wa(2)? Or am I reading this incorrectly? I haven't held Wa with a capital to be sure how it acts.


Nope. The 0 bonus overrides the previous bonus. I don't know if BOB shows overrides.


That makes sense. I should have figured that out from the other bonuses listed, but for some reason that one looked strange. Never mind. :P
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [15.8.11]

Postby PLAYER57832 on Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:57 pm

Played 1 vs 1 with the new changes. Not sure I like them, right now it seems that the first player has a big advantage. However, as I noted before, not every map needs to be designed for 1 vs 1.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [15.8.11]

Postby natty dread on Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:05 am

I will investigate the situation.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [15.8.11]

Postby greenoaks on Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:11 am

the Geumgwamgaya territory is rather pointless stuck behind the 8-stack at Gyeongju
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [15.8.11]

Postby natty dread on Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:18 am

greenoaks wrote:the Geumgwamgaya territory is rather pointless stuck behind the 8-stack at Gyeongju


Gyeongju is 4 now.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [15.8.11]

Postby greenoaks on Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:11 am

natty_dread wrote:
greenoaks wrote:the Geumgwamgaya territory is rather pointless stuck behind the 8-stack at Gyeongju


Gyeongju is 4 now.

i thought i read that above but my games are still showing it as 8.

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [15.8.11]

Postby natty dread on Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:47 am

greenoaks wrote:
natty_dread wrote:
greenoaks wrote:the Geumgwamgaya territory is rather pointless stuck behind the 8-stack at Gyeongju


Gyeongju is 4 now.

i thought i read that above but my games are still showing it as 8.

Game 9622238


Your games were started before the latest update. Neutral values for already started games do not change when the map is updated. When you start a new game it will be 4.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [15.8.11]

Postby greenoaks on Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:19 am

natty_dread wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
natty_dread wrote:
greenoaks wrote:the Geumgwamgaya territory is rather pointless stuck behind the 8-stack at Gyeongju


Gyeongju is 4 now.

i thought i read that above but my games are still showing it as 8.

Game 9622238


Your games were started before the latest update. Neutral values for already started games do not change when the map is updated. When you start a new game it will be 4.

that's a shame, i keep getting that territory :( i don't think i'll be starting any games this week, next week for sure.

this map has a real left/right split to it. is that a historical thing ?
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [15.8.11]

Postby natty dread on Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:23 am

I'm not sure what you mean by a left/right split...
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [15.8.11]

Postby greenoaks on Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:43 am

natty_dread wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by a left/right split...

the ports on the left connect to the ports on the left. the ports on the right connect to the ports on the right.

Teng Chou connected to Gyeongju but i've never seen it used because of the 8 stack.

that left Teng Chou to Donggokjeo as the only port connection from left to right to circumvent to two land bottlenecks at Leland/Salsu & up north at Donghuyeo.

the reduction of Gyeongju to 4 may encourage more to attack it from Teng Chou but that still leaves only 3 ways into the left side of the map from the right
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [15.8.11]

Postby natty dread on Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:54 am

Well, the sea connections are mostly based on historical facts. For example, Silla was allied with Tang (which wasn't really a part of Korea, but is included because of that association) so the direct sea connection between them fits. The yellow junks between mainland Tang and Tang's Korean holdings also make sense...

On the other hand, having sea connections on the same side of the peninsula is only logical, in that seafaring wasn't very advanced at that point in time, and it was easier to travel shorter distances rather than long ones, by sea.

From a gameplay perspective, a lot of the connections are designed to keep the map from being too bottlenecked.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [15.8.11]

Postby bfgray on Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:32 pm

Hi. I hope this is the appropriate place to raise such a concern... I just want to say that I've played this map a few times and it's awesome, but it absolutely sucks for colourblind people like myself. Thanks to the labelling and the borders, I can more or less guess which regions belong to which kingdoms (still haven't figured out what kingdom Gaya is shared with though!), but the junks had me really confused for a long time, sorry. I got myself into a spot a couple of times because I misread the connections.

So, I don't know if it's too much to ask for you to go for colours that are a little more distinctive? The washed-out colours on this map make it very attractive, but also confusing.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [15.8.11]

Postby natty dread on Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:00 pm

I'm not sure if anything can be done with the colours. The Jpeg format in which the maps are hosted on the site reduces the colour depth considerably, which means the colours will be somewhat washed out no matter what I do to them.

Bon-gaya is shared with Baekje, the rest with Silla.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [15.8.11]

Postby natty dread on Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:13 pm

I could crank up the saturation to compensate for the jpeg colour loss, not sure how well that'd work... something like this:

Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [15.8.11]

Postby greenoaks on Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:11 am

i'm not colour-blind and i also had some problems with those colours. anything you could do to make it easier to tell them apart would be great.

i turn on bob when i play it so i don't screw up but it would be good if i didn't feel unsure of which ports connected. although the more i play the map the more confident i feel about it.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [15.8.11]

Postby natty dread on Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:14 am

How about the image in my previous post
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [15.8.11]

Postby Seamus76 on Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:38 am

I like that new image. I'm a big fan of the map, and like the dark aspect, but it is a little too dark even for me. I think those new colors would not only lighten the map, but still work with the style and theme, as even the warriors wore bright colors such as gold and red, etc.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [15.8.11]

Postby greenoaks on Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:08 am

the brown of Silla is much easier to see, i like the green of Baekje, it works better with the colours of Silla and Goguryea.

i think it would be better if Tang stood out more in the shared areas. it does look better, just not as good an improvement as the other colours.


in an earlier post you said

this is Three Kingdoms of Korea, or Korea 57-668AD but it's not just Korea.


i know CC has recently chnged the name in the database to 3 kingdoms but i was wondering if you have considered at any point putting those years on your map. i know it is a historical map and what period in time because you told me so but Korea (and Korean history) is not well known and so i think most people here would not immediately recognise it for what it is like we might a map such as American Civil War or 13 Colonies.

i say this because when i first saw this map i thought wow, Korea is map up of 3 kingdoms. i still don't know if Korea is currently made up of 3 kingdoms (much like Australia has 6 states and the USA has 50 states) or if that is a thing of the past.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [15.8.11]

Postby natty dread on Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:37 am

greenoaks wrote:i know CC has recently chnged the name in the database to 3 kingdoms but i was wondering if you have considered at any point putting those years on your map.


I don't think so... the map doesn't depict any certain time, it's more a general depiction of the Three Kingdoms era which spans several centuries... therefore I don't think adding those years on the map would add much to the map.

Anyway, here's a version with increased saturation and contrast. I separated the map to chroma/luminance channels and applied saturation to chroma only, and contrast to luminance only. This increases the difference between the colours and should improve legibility.

Note that these are png:s, so the final jpeg image will still be a little less saturated.

Click image to enlarge.
image


Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [15.8.11]

Postby natty dread on Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:43 am

Here are the same as 94% quality jpeg:s.

Click image to enlarge.
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Click image to enlarge.
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