New Jersey [Quenched]

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New Jersey [Quenched]

Postby chaos32679 on Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:10 pm

Map Name: New Jersey
Mapmaker(s): chaos32679, Tisha
Number of Territories: 44
Special Features: 8 bonus regions, 1 auto deploy, 2 killer neutrals, 2 starting neutrals (Trenton/Atlantic City)
What Makes This Map Worthy of Being Made: New Jersey is small but prominent within the USA, it is not yet represented on CC.

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Last edited by chaos32679 on Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:11 pm, edited 31 times in total.
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Re: New Jersey

Postby natty dread on Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:26 pm

Well, your graphical skills are passable for this stage.

Why New Jersey though? I understand the place is dear to you, but what is about New Jersey that makes it interesting for someone who has never been to New Jersey, or doesn't know where New Jersey is?

You need to make the gameplay of your map more interesting - and functional. You have 21 territories and 3 bonus areas... which means 6 player games will start with 3 territories each, and 8 player games will start with only 2. The structure of the map is too constricted - you can't get from one end of the map to the other very easily. And only 3 bonuses, none of them easy to take... I foresee games being decided by dice and drop.
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Re: New Jersey

Postby Anthrax821 on Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:08 pm

I have wanted to do a Jersey map for a while.

In response to Natty...why would anyone want to play San Francisco, or Antartica, or any other map restricted to a smaller area or time specific point they've never been to or don't know where it is or don't even know any history about?

This map has potential, the area has potential when you compare it to some of the dumpy (and boring) maps out there. And A LOT of people are from Jersey/have roots in Jersey added to interest generated from the BULLSHIT show called Jersey Shore (which is horrendous and no way representative of the state's residents)

My suggestion to ease up on difficulty on moving through the map (once again addressing natty's concerns) would be to add roads the way many other maps have (NYC, the rail maps, rte 66...) For jersey it could be things north/south such as the Garden State Parkway and the Jersey Turnpike. East/West you would have to make sure to capture certain regions but think roads like route 80 or route 78 would work. Adding the roads would lead to a necessary map expansion (size wise I mean). However, there are definitely maps you cannot easily get from end to end in existence.

For other bonus ideas you could also break up the existing bonus regions into smaller bonuses (northeast, northwest, ect...) or make the added roads a bonus. Or even add other major city bonus regions like you did with the capitol (think newark, atlantic city, camden, ect...)

the other option would be continue this maps creation and have it meant for SMALL and LOW PLAYER COUNT battles, again like some existing maps.
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Re: New Jersey

Postby chaos32679 on Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:24 pm

natty_dread wrote:

Why New Jersey though? I understand the place is dear to you, but what is about New Jersey that makes it interesting for someone who has never been to New Jersey, or doesn't know where New Jersey is?


Why Jersey? Lets see...

+ The first baseball game was played in Hoboken
+ The first intercollegiate football game was played in New Brunswick, in 1869. Rutgers College played Princeton. Rutgers won
+The first Drive-In Movie theatre was opened in Camden
+Modern paleontology, the science of studying dinosaur fossils, began in 1858 with the discovery of the first nearly complete skeleton of a dinosaur in Haddonfield, New Jersey.
+The first Indian reservation was in New Jersey.
+New Jersey is a leading industrial state and is the largest chemical producing state in the nation.
+New Jersey is a major seaport state with the largest seaport in the U.S. located in Elizabeth.
+Passaic river was the site to the first submarine ride by inventor John P. Holland.
+New Jersey has the most dense system of highways and railroads in the U.S.
+New Jersey is the only state where all its counties are classified as metropolitan areas.
+New Jersey has the highest population density in the U.S. An average 1,030 people per sq. mi., which is 13 times the national average.

And my personal favorite...

+The light bulb, phonograph (record player), motion picture projector were invented by Thomas Edison in his Menlo Park laboratory.
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Re: New Jersey

Postby Anthrax821 on Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:51 pm

lol you totally left out farming yet put in chemicals...i doubt your Jersey roots!

The New Jersey coast line is also one of the most sought after and widely visited vacation spots in the continental US.

Many TV shows and movies are filmed here, sometimes identifying Jersey many times passing as other areas such a NY.
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Re: New Jersey

Postby chaos32679 on Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:03 pm

i tried to keep it brief, the list was pretty long initially, lol.

I think i like your idea about maybe adding highways/railroads, maybe that would open the map up more...
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Re: New Jersey

Postby jsnyder748 on Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:40 pm

looks very good so far! but there are enough small maps out there. make this a medium sized map with a system to more easily move from one side to the other. that way it will serve for team games, escalating games, 1 v 1, and for people who love jersey! Small maps are only fun if you suck at team games and rely on luck or like 1 v 1's on stupid easy maps.
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Re: New Jersey

Postby natty dread on Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:10 am

The problem with standard gameplay small maps is, they cater to a very narrow range of gameplay types... if you've ever played 8-player assdoodle (with nuclear spoils!) you'll know it's a game of pure chance and luck.

Make the map bigger.

chaos32679 wrote:Why Jersey? Lets see...

+ The first baseball game was played in Hoboken
+ The first intercollegiate football game was played in New Brunswick, in 1869. Rutgers College played Princeton. Rutgers won
+The first Drive-In Movie theatre was opened in Camden
+Modern paleontology, the science of studying dinosaur fossils, began in 1858 with the discovery of the first nearly complete skeleton of a dinosaur in Haddonfield, New Jersey.
+The first Indian reservation was in New Jersey.
+New Jersey is a leading industrial state and is the largest chemical producing state in the nation.
+New Jersey is a major seaport state with the largest seaport in the U.S. located in Elizabeth.
+Passaic river was the site to the first submarine ride by inventor John P. Holland.
+New Jersey has the most dense system of highways and railroads in the U.S.
+New Jersey is the only state where all its counties are classified as metropolitan areas.
+New Jersey has the highest population density in the U.S. An average 1,030 people per sq. mi., which is 13 times the national average.

And my personal favorite...

+The light bulb, phonograph (record player), motion picture projector were invented by Thomas Edison in his Menlo Park laboratory.


Those are all interesting things that probably give the tourist guides of New Jersey lots to talk about. But what is it about New Jersey that can be used to make an interesting gameplay? None of those things you say are reflected in your current map idea...
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Re: New Jersey

Postby Dukasaur on Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:44 am

chaos32679 wrote:
natty_dread wrote:

Why New Jersey though? I understand the place is dear to you, but what is about New Jersey that makes it interesting for someone who has never been to New Jersey, or doesn't know where New Jersey is?


Why Jersey? Lets see...

+ The first baseball game was played in Hoboken
+ The first intercollegiate football game was played in New Brunswick, in 1869. Rutgers College played Princeton. Rutgers won
+The first Drive-In Movie theatre was opened in Camden
+Modern paleontology, the science of studying dinosaur fossils, began in 1858 with the discovery of the first nearly complete skeleton of a dinosaur in Haddonfield, New Jersey.
+The first Indian reservation was in New Jersey.
+New Jersey is a leading industrial state and is the largest chemical producing state in the nation.
+New Jersey is a major seaport state with the largest seaport in the U.S. located in Elizabeth.
+Passaic river was the site to the first submarine ride by inventor John P. Holland.
+New Jersey has the most dense system of highways and railroads in the U.S.
+New Jersey is the only state where all its counties are classified as metropolitan areas.
+New Jersey has the highest population density in the U.S. An average 1,030 people per sq. mi., which is 13 times the national average.

And my personal favorite...

+The light bulb, phonograph (record player), motion picture projector were invented by Thomas Edison in his Menlo Park laboratory.

Springsteen was born in New Jersey. That's good enough for me...:-)

Nothing wrong with a 21 territory map. There's waay too many big maps nowadays that are a chore to play. We definitely need more small maps. But I would break it up into more bonus zones.

Delaware Valley
Sussex, Warren, Morris, Hunterdon

Hudson Valley
Passaic, Bergen, Essex, Hudson, Union

Central Jersey
Somerset, Middlesex, Monmouth

Atlantic Shore
Ocean, Atlantic, Cape May, Cumberland

Leeward Shore
Burlington, Camden, Gloucester, Salem

No Zone
Mercer with its autodeploy doesn't need to be part of any zone
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Re: New Jersey

Postby chaos32679 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:03 am

Natty, I'm going to add highways, that ll add more regions and open up the map which seemed to be your biggest complaint...

East to West - Rt78 & Rt80
North to South - Garden State Parkway & New Jersey Turnpike

Thanks Dukasaur. I get what you're saying, but i don't want to make up regions, i wanted to keep it real. When you talk to someone from jersey, they are from north jersey, not northwest/east jersey...
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Re: New Jersey

Postby The Bison King on Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:05 am

See this is why I don't think it's in the map makers best interest to stick to actual political established boundaries all the time. (I.e. the "Why didn't you use the counties????" comment). 21 territories is extremely small and 3 bonus regions is even smaller. By the time you get your first bonus you already have third of the board. Basically that means you've already won, therefore the bonuses are completely useless.

I think to continue with this map you would need to break the territories up more and add more bonus regions.
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Re: New Jersey

Postby MoB Deadly on Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:28 am

Graphically this map looks great for a first draft!

Yes I do have the same concerns about gameplay, In the center especially it chokes up, and that kind of layout does typically lead to 1 sided games. You dont have to limit it to highways only, you could go with something else like boats or airports. Maybe something to think about for a smaller bonus, maybe Atlantic city could give a +1?

Some questions, does hudson border union? and does atlantic border ocean?
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Re: New Jersey

Postby chaos32679 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:38 am

MoB Deadly wrote:Graphically this map looks great for a first draft!

Yes I do have the same concerns about gameplay, In the center especially it chokes up, and that kind of layout does typically lead to 1 sided games. You dont have to limit it to highways only, you could go with something else like boats or airports. Maybe something to think about for a smaller bonus, maybe Atlantic city could give a +1?

Some questions, does hudson border union? and does atlantic border ocean?


No, hudson doesn't border union, at the moment, and atlantic doesn't border ocean, but i can change that. I 'm going to add 4 or possibly 5 highways to this, and then see what you guys think. It should minimize the bottle neck in the middle, and give more regions.

I would like to leave my region bonus, and then also make each complete highway a region. So we'd have 3 for the map itself, and then another 4/5 regions for each of the highways...

Waterways are another avenue i can explore, but there is only one major airport, so that isn't really an option...
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Re: New Jersey

Postby Minister X on Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:01 am

Just two ideas for you to consider. [I was raised in NJ.]
1) Counties are less recognizable than cities/places like Princeton, the Pine Barrens, the Meadowlands, etc. Overcome your problems by dumping counties and creating your own terts.
2) Stretch the map and state in width. You can make lots more room for north-south movement with fewer constrictions without making the state unrecognizable. There's no need for strict geographic accuracy at CC.
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Re: New Jersey

Postby chaos32679 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:18 am

good call. think i should leave the county boundaries, but put a major city or two from each?
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Re: New Jersey

Postby chaos32679 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:30 am

this is really really rough, but you get the idea... better?

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Re: New Jersey

Postby Anthrax821 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:59 pm

dukasaur...another jersey-ite?
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Re: New Jersey

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:03 pm

Why Jersey? Lets see...

+ The first baseball game was played in Hoboken
+ The first intercollegiate football game was played in New Brunswick, in 1869. Rutgers College played Princeton. Rutgers won
+The first Drive-In Movie theatre was opened in Camden
+Modern paleontology, the science of studying dinosaur fossils, began in 1858 with the discovery of the first nearly complete skeleton of a dinosaur in Haddonfield, New Jersey.
+The first Indian reservation was in New Jersey.
+New Jersey is a leading industrial state and is the largest chemical producing state in the nation.
+New Jersey is a major seaport state with the largest seaport in the U.S. located in Elizabeth.
+Passaic river was the site to the first submarine ride by inventor John P. Holland.
+New Jersey has the most dense system of highways and railroads in the U.S.
+New Jersey is the only state where all its counties are classified as metropolitan areas.
+New Jersey has the highest population density in the U.S. An average 1,030 people per sq. mi., which is 13 times the national average.

And my personal favorite...

+The light bulb, phonograph (record player), motion picture projector were invented by Thomas Edison in his Menlo Park laboratory.


great, factor this awesomeness into the map somehow
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Re: New Jersey

Postby jcarter1 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:45 pm

good map - lets keep working on it


what i dont like about those road maps is that most of the roads are way too long usually.. like here: if you hold the complete yellow or blue highway, chances are you might have won the game anyways by now and dont need that bonus anymore... the games here will probably be decided in the upper part of the map (depending on your regional bonus structure).
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Re: New Jersey

Postby chaos32679 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:02 pm

true. i don't like the roads at all to be honest, i like my original design, but apparently i was the only one, lol. The roads are tough, north jersey is heavily populated, and since its near NYC, most of the states major arteries are near there, south jersey is a bit more empty...
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Re: New Jersey

Postby RjBeals on Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:20 pm

I support this map also. Jersey has a culture all it's own (no, not talking about snookie). I mean at this point in CC, it's a map free-for-all, so I don't see why anyone should road-block this map.

I would consider some sort of atlantic city bonus. Or maybe, as cliche as it is, a jersey shore/seaside/boardwalk area.

I also urge you to really look at some tutorials via google search or cartographersguild.com. If you are dedicated to this map, expect to be in it for a solid year. Things move slow around here, but the payoff is great. Having people play on your map is a great feeling. Plus it's a personal achievement. And you may get hooked and find a fun new hobby.

I'll follow your progress, I spent several years living in the Atlantic Highlands (Monmouth County). Commuting on the parkway and paying those damn tolls. If you need graphical advice, hit me up.

(edit) what graphic software are you using?
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Re: New Jersey

Postby Anthrax821 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:20 pm

atlantic highlands huh? I lived in middletown ("north middletown", wet side, formerly east keansburg) for my HS years and some in college.

ha! and surprisingly enough I also lived in SC too...two years Myrtle Beach....
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Re: New Jersey

Postby squishyg on Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:43 pm

Yay, love this idea! Jersey represent!!!!!

Some fun things you could add graphically and perhaps incorporate into bonuses:
Malls (especially in Bergen County)
grease trucks in the Rutgers/New Brunswick area
Music notes in Hoboken, Newark, Asbury Park, and Sayreville areas
Surfboards or something down the shore
A jersey tomato in the farmlands
A roller coaster in the Jackson area
A courthouse or capitol building in the Trenton area

You could go crazy with Weird NJ stuff-the Jersey Devil, the Pine Barrens, the midget and albino villages, Tilly, etc.
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Re: New Jersey

Postby Anthrax821 on Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:05 am

i think weird NJ should have a map all of its own...maybe for halloween?
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Re: New Jersey

Postby chaos32679 on Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:19 pm

Ok, i broke it down into 6 regions. Once this is acceptable, i'm planning on breaking each region into a bunch of towns/cities.

Also, in addition to the region bonus's, i was thinking 4 autodeploys...

Atlantic City
Trenton (capital)
Newark (airport)
Elizabeth (seaport)

Anyway, let me know what you guys think, like to get some approval before moving forward....

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