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Re: RAIL ASIA [27.09.11] V10-P7 Changed gameplay

Postby cairnswk on Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:24 am

Victor Sullivan wrote:Both Marshal and I suggested M's decrease to +1. I think it's a valid concern that a bonus of +2 would be too high for it's borders, territory count, position, and expansion opportunities (i.e. L - Indonesian).

-Sully

Yeh, thanks Sully, i haven't got down to bottom half of that post that why i put
I'll add more shortly about those other changes.
;)
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Re: RAIL ASIA [27.09.11] V10-P7 Changed gameplay

Postby Victor Sullivan on Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:27 am

Oh, okay, gotcha :oops:

-Sully
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Re: RAIL ASIA [29.09.11] V11-P8 Changed gameplay

Postby cairnswk on Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:12 pm

MarshalNey wrote:...

After digesting these figures, I have the following recommendations:

... and then there's the Rail D bonus. It's a white elephant, even worse than Asia in Classic. Nobody but nobody is going to collect this bonus until the game is decided already in their favor. Yet, you already have more than enough bonuses, so splitting it up doesn't look like a good idea. You could palm some of its regions off to other rails maybe, but this would only make the other rails non-viable while not really helping Rail D significantly. In light of the fact that the number of total deployable regions on the map is a very unfavorable number, I would be inclined to recommend that you chop out some of the stations in Rail D... but that's just my first thought and any other idea that might reasonably reduce the borders of this bonus would be welcome.

As for your neutrals... they could be moved to better spots to prevent dropping bonuses. The most obvious move to me is the neutral on the F-Rail. Move it to Tblisi Station, since that's a very droppable bonus at the moment and needs a neutral. Thus two birds with one stone.

The second thing that I would do with the neutrals is to get rid of the neutral on Rail H. It's not needed... if it turns out that you need the neutral for your total region count to be a golden number, move it to Rail L.

Finally, as mentioned earlier the total number of deployable regions for this map (73 regions) is a non-golden (one might say black) number. Some adjustments need to be made to either increase or decrease it to a golden number.

-- Marshal Ney

P.S. I didn't give a rationale for my suggestions for raising or lowering the bonuses (other than Rail D), but if one compares the values between like rails, most of them are self-explanatory. Rail M is too good of a deal for +2... I think that a bonus should not be both easy and more efficient than larger bonuses; rather a small bonus should be a tradeoff (easier to take and hold, but less efficient). Otherwise it dominates the strategy disproportionately.


Here is my solution for Rail D
It's still a large bonus, but it now gives 82 regions so only to have to start neutral to get the 80 golden number.
I'll get back to the other side adjustment like M shortly...need some more sleep.

Version 11.
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Re: RAIL ASIA [29.09.11] V11-P7 Changed gameplay

Postby Victor Sullivan on Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:18 pm

Looks good, though I'd reduce Beijing's bonus to +5.

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Re: RAIL ASIA [29.09.11] V12-P7 Chine into 3 bonuses

Postby cairnswk on Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:27 pm

MarshalNey wrote:...

P.S. I didn't give a rationale for my suggestions for raising or lowering the bonuses (other than Rail D), but if one compares the values between like rails, most of them are self-explanatory. Rail M is too good of a deal for +2... I think that a bonus should not be both easy and more efficient than larger bonuses; rather a small bonus should be a tradeoff (easier to take and hold, but less efficient). Otherwise it dominates the strategy disproportionately.



My side of the coin for Rail M being +2 is that it still have two borders to defend therefore if the player who gets that railway is to defend it, they need one each side to continue to hold it, the same with Indonesia and Japan, and it backs onto that large Southern Chinese Rail.

After digesting these figures, I have the following recommendations:
Rail M bonus lowered from +2 to +1


I'd like to keep the +2

Not sure what you mean with the "and one extra border added" - do you want another border added in order to justify the bonus?

Rail G bonus raised from +2 to +3, and one extra border added


Now Rail I Arabian - Done

Rail J bonus raised from +3 to +4 and one extra border added


Now Rail L Indian - Done

Rail H bonus raised from +3 to +4


Now Rail J Iranian - Done

Rail K bonus raised from +4 to +5


Now Rail M SE Asia - Done

The second thing that I would do with the neutrals is to get rid of the neutral on Rail H. It's not needed... if it turns out that you need the neutral for your total region count to be a golden number, move it to Rail L.


I don't think there are any need for neutrals now

Finally, as mentioned earlier the total number of deployable regions for this map (73 regions) is a non-golden (one might say black) number. Some adjustments need to be made to either increase or decrease it to a golden number.
-- Marshal Ney


Golden number should now be 80, i hope.

Version 12
Beijing D will have to be noted as D1 and D2...not put in yet, but will adjust.
Confirmed in the xml there is now 80 regions.


Version 12
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Re: RAIL ASIA [29.09.11] V11-P7 Changed gameplay

Postby cairnswk on Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:30 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:Looks good, though I'd reduce Beijing's bonus to +5.
-Sully

Chopping and changing Sully.
Beiing is now a 4 region terminal, so have adjusted that to +3, same as Tbilisi.
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Re: RAIL ASIA [29.09.11] V12-P7 Chine into 3 bonuses

Postby cairnswk on Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:44 pm

Version 12
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Re: RAIL ASIA [29.09.11] V12-P7 Chine into 3 bonuses

Postby Victor Sullivan on Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:17 pm

D to +5, F to +6... As far as BJN is concerned, I'm a little confused as to why there are two D stations.

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Re: RAIL ASIA [29.09.11] V12-P7 Chine into 3 bonuses

Postby cairnswk on Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:28 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:D to +5, F to +6... As far as BJN is concerned, I'm a little confused as to why there are two D stations.

-Sully

Sully, i thought that creating a triangle for that wouldn't look right.
So i created the same as Tbilisi.
so two of the sides had to be D platforms.
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Re: RAIL ASIA [29.09.11] V12-P7 Chine into 3 bonuses

Postby Victor Sullivan on Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:30 pm

cairnswk wrote:
Victor Sullivan wrote:D to +5, F to +6... As far as BJN is concerned, I'm a little confused as to why there are two D stations.

-Sully

Sully, i thought that creating a triangle for that wouldn't look right.
So i created the same as Tbilisi.
so two of the sides had to be D platforms.

Fair enough, I suppose.

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Re: RAIL ASIA [29.09.11] V12-P7 Chine into 3 bonuses

Postby cairnswk on Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:34 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
Victor Sullivan wrote:D to +5, F to +6... As far as BJN is concerned, I'm a little confused as to why there are two D stations.

-Sully

Sully, i thought that creating a triangle for that wouldn't look right.
So i created the same as Tbilisi.
so two of the sides had to be D platforms.

Fair enough, I suppose.

-Sully


I just tried it again with triangles, and the outer triangle has to be quite large (because of the acute angles) in order to fit the lilne designator in that outside space.
Do you have an alternative, and is there any real problem with having it that way.
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Re: RAIL ASIA [30.09.11] V13-P8 Chine into 3 bonuses

Postby cairnswk on Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:43 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:...
Fair enough, I suppose.
-Sully


Sully, i found a configuration that kinda works for me, i'm not totally happy with it, but it cuts the lines down to three in Bejing.
Does this work for you also?

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Re: RAIL ASIA [30.09.11] V13-P8 China into 3 bonuses

Postby ender516 on Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:55 am

I thought it quite reasonable for a city the size of Beijing to have two stations on one line, but the naming convention would need some tweaking. The new configuration has some appeal, as it resembles a brilliant cut diamond seen in profile. With one less station in D, is it still worth 5?
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Re: RAIL ASIA [30.09.11] V13-P8 China into 3 bonuses

Postby cairnswk on Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:19 am

ender516 wrote:I thought it quite reasonable for a city the size of Beijing to have two stations on one line, but the naming convention would need some tweaking. The new configuration has some appeal, as it resembles a brilliant cut diamond seen in profile. With one less station in D, is it still worth 5?

Thanks ender516.
my calculator says it's only worth +4.
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Re: RAIL ASIA [30.09.11] V13-P8 China into 3 bonuses

Postby cairnswk on Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:31 am

If everyone is happy with this graphic for BJN, then i'll run with that, i think apart from that bonus for N Chinese ?, everything is set for gameplay.
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Re: RAIL ASIA [30.09.11] V13-P8 China into 3 bonuses

Postby TaCktiX on Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:49 am

Now that I'm looking at it, the font for the bonus names does the letter "N" no favors that small. Any chance of a slightly different one?
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Re: RAIL ASIA [30.09.11] V13-P8 China into 3 bonuses

Postby cairnswk on Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:19 am

TaCktiX wrote:Now that I'm looking at it, the font for the bonus names does the letter "N" no favors that small. Any chance of a slightly different one?

No worries TaCktiX, i'll attend to that. Thanks. :)
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Re: RAIL ASIA [30.09.11] V13-P8 China into 3 bonuses

Postby cairnswk on Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:24 am

cairnswk wrote:If everyone is happy with this graphic for BJN, then i'll run with that, i think apart from that bonus for N Chinese ?, everything is set for gameplay.

Bugger, now that i've reduced BJN to 1 nothern terminus, there are only 79 stations....solution...to come shortly
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Re: RAIL ASIA [30.09.11] V14-P8

Postby cairnswk on Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:02 am

cairnswk wrote:
cairnswk wrote:If everyone is happy with this graphic for BJN, then i'll run with that, i think apart from that bonus for N Chinese ?, everything is set for gameplay.

Bugger, now that i've reduced BJN to 1 nothern terminus, there are only 79 stations....solution...to come shortly


Inserted between NVK and IRK is Taishet TAI - it won't affect the bonus for Siberian.

Version 14
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Re: RAIL ASIA [30.09.11] V13-P8 China into 3 bonuses

Postby cairnswk on Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:48 am

cairnswk wrote:
TaCktiX wrote:Now that I'm looking at it, the font for the bonus names does the letter "N" no favors that small. Any chance of a slightly different one?

No worries TaCktiX, i'll attend to that. Thanks. :)

Should appear in V14.
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Re: RAIL ASIA [30.09.11] V14-P8 China into 3 bonuses

Postby cairnswk on Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:24 pm

XML complete for small map only
http://h1.ripway.com/cairnswk/_rail_asia.xml
Code: Select all
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<map>
<continent>
   <name>Russian A</name>
   <bonus>5</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>TBS Tbilisi A</territory>
      <territory>MOW Moscow A</territory>
      <territory>VOG Volgograd A</territory>
      <territory>ORB Orenburg A</territory>
      <territory>EKB Ekaterinburg A</territory>
      <territory>AST Astana A and B</territory>
      <territory>NVK Novosibursk A</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>The Stanz</name>
   <bonus>5</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>AST Astana A and B</territory>
      <territory>DSH Dushanbe B</territory>
      <territory>BAQ Balqash B</territory>
      <territory>KAZ Kazalinsk B</territory>
      <territory>AKY Aktay B</territory>
      <territory>MHD Mashhad B and J</territory>
      <territory>SMQ Samarqand B</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Siberian</name>
   <bonus>4</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>NVK Novosibursk C</territory>
      <territory>IRK Irkutsk C</territory>
      <territory>ULB Ulaanbaatar C</territory>
      <territory>KRY Karymskoye C</territory>
      <territory>VST Vladivostock C</territory>
      <territory>TAI Taishet C</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>N Chinese</name>
   <bonus>4</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>ULB Ulaanbaatar D</territory>
      <territory>KRY Karymskoye D</territory>
      <territory>HBN Habin D</territory>
      <territory>VST Vladivostock D</territory>
      <territory>SOL Soeul D</territory>
      <territory>BJN Beijing D</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Japanese</name>
   <bonus>2</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>SAP Sapporo E</territory>
      <territory>TYO Tokyo E</territory>
      <territory>OSA Osaka E</territory>
      <territory>KAG Kagoshima E</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>S Chinese</name>
   <bonus>6</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>BJN Beijing F</territory>
      <territory>ZHZ Zhengzhou G and F</territory>
      <territory>SHG Shanghai F</territory>
      <territory>HKG Hong Kong F</territory>
      <territory>HAN Hanoi F</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>W Chinese</name>
   <bonus>5</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>DSH Dushanbe G</territory>
      <territory>HOT Hotan G</territory>
      <territory>LNZ Lanzhou G</territory>
      <territory>BJN Beijing G</territory>
      <territory>ZHZ Zhengzhou G and F</territory>
      <territory>KUN Kunming G and F</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>West Asia</name>
   <bonus>2</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>TBS Tbilisi H</territory>
      <territory>IST Instanbul H</territory>
      <territory>TLV Tel Aviv H</territory>
      <territory>PSD Port Said H and I</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Arabian</name>
   <bonus>3</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>TBS Tbilisi I</territory>
      <territory>BGW Baghdad I</territory>
      <territory>RUH Ar Riyad I</territory>
      <territory>DXB Dubai I</territory>
      <territory>ADE Aden I</territory>
      <territory>PSD Port Said H and I</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Iranian</name>
   <bonus>4</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>TBS Tbilisi J</territory>
      <territory>THR Tehran J</territory>
      <territory>MHD Mashhad B and J</territory>
      <territory>DSH Dushanbe J</territory>
      <territory>TAF Taftan J</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Pakistani</name>
   <bonus>3</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>TAF Taftan K</territory>
      <territory>KHI Karachi K</territory>
      <territory>ISL Islamabad K</territory>
      <territory>KBL Kabul K</territory>
      <territory>DSH Dushanbe K</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Indian</name>
   <bonus>4</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>DSH Dushanbe L</territory>
      <territory>KHI Karachi L</territory>
      <territory>NDH New Delhi L</territory>
      <territory>RGP Rangpur L</territory>
      <territory>MBA Mumbai L</territory>
      <territory>CHN Chennai L</territory>
      <territory>KAL Karungalam L</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>SE Asian</name>
   <bonus>5</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>RGP Rangpur M</territory>
      <territory>KUN Kunming M</territory>
      <territory>HAN Hanoi M</territory>
      <territory>BKK Bangkok M</territory>
      <territory>HCM Ho Chi Min City M</territory>
      <territory>KLM Kuala Lumpur M</territory>
      <territory>SIN Singapore M</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Indonesian</name>
   <bonus>2</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>BAA Banda Aceh N</territory>
      <territory>JKT Jakarta N</territory>
      <territory>KTP Ketapang N</territory>
      <territory>BTK Batakan N</territory>
      <territory>SDK Sandakan N</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Philippino</name>
   <bonus>2</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>STC Santos City O</territory>
      <territory>MNL Manilla O</territory>
      <territory>ARR Aparri O</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>All Tbilisi TSB</name>
   <bonus>3</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>TBS Tbilisi A</territory>
      <territory>TBS Tbilisi H</territory>
      <territory>TBS Tbilisi I</territory>
      <territory>TBS Tbilisi J</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>All Dushanbe DSH</name>
   <bonus>4</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>DSH Dushanbe B</territory>
      <territory>DSH Dushanbe G</territory>
      <territory>DSH Dushanbe J</territory>
      <territory>DSH Dushanbe K</territory>
      <territory>DSH Dushanbe L</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>All Beijing BJN</name>
   <bonus>3</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>BJN Beijing D</territory>
      <territory>BJN Beijing F</territory>
      <territory>BJN Beijing G</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<territory>
   <name>PSD Port Said H and I</name>
   <borders>
      <border>TLV Tel Aviv H</border>
      <border>RUH Ar Riyad I</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>40</smallx>
      <smally>270</smally>
      <largex>0</largex>
      <largey>0</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>MHD Mashhad B and J</name>
   <borders>
      <border>THR Tehran J</border>
      <border>AKY Aktay B</border>
      <border>DSH Dushanbe J</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>211</smallx>
      <smally>215</smally>
      <largex>0</largex>
      <largey>0</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>AST Astana A and B</name>
   <borders>
      <border>NVK Novosibursk A</border>
      <border>BAQ Balqash B</border>
      <border>KAZ Kazalinsk B</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>274</smallx>
      <smally>83</smally>
      <largex>0</largex>
      <largey>0</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>KUN Kunming G and F</name>
   <borders>
      <border>KUN Kunming M</border>
      <border>ZHZ Zhengzhou G and F</border>
      <border>LNZ Lanzhou G</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>469</smallx>
      <smally>273</smally>
      <largex>0</largex>
      <largey>0</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>ZHZ Zhengzhou G and F</name>
   <borders>
      <border>KUN Kunming G and F</border>
      <border>LNZ Lanzhou G</border>
      <border>BJN Beijing F</border>
      <border>SHG Shanghai F</border>
      <border>HAN Hanoi F</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>529</smallx>
      <smally>256</smally>
      <largex>0</largex>
      <largey>0</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>MOW Moscow A</name>
   <borders>
      <border>VOG Volgograd A</border>
      <border>ORB Orenburg A</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
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      <border>TBS Tbilisi J</border>
      <border>TBS Tbilisi I</border>
      <border>TBS Tbilisi H</border>
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      <border>TBS Tbilisi A</border>
      <border>MOW Moscow A</border>
      <border>ORB Orenburg A</border>
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      <border>MOW Moscow A</border>
      <border>ORB Orenburg B</border>
      <border>EKB Ekaterinburg A</border>
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   <name>NVK Novosibursk A</name>
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      <border>NVK Novosibursk C</border>
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      <border>EKB Ekaterinburg A</border>
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   <name>EKB Ekaterinburg A</name>
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      <border>ORB Orenburg A</border>
      <border>NVK Novosibursk A</border>
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   <name>ORB Orenburg B</name>
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      <border>MHD Mashhad B and J</border>
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   <name>KAZ Kazalinsk B</name>
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      <border>AKY Aktay B</border>
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      <border>SMQ Samarqand B</border>
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   <name>BAQ Balqash B</name>
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      <border>BAQ Balqash B</border>
      <border>DSH Dushanbe G</border>
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      <border>ULB Ulaanbaatar C</border>
      <border>KRY Karymskoye C</border>
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      <border>ULB Ulaanbaatar D</border>
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      <border>IRK Irkutsk C</border>
      <border>KRY Karymskoye D</border>
      <border>VST Vladivostock C</border>
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      <border>KRY Karymskoye D</border>
      <border>BJN Beijing D</border>
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      <border>VST Vladivostock C</border>
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      <border>SOL Soeul D</border>
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      <border>OSA Osaka E</border>
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      <border>TYO Tokyo E</border>
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      <border>IST Instanbul H</border>
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Last edited by cairnswk on Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RAIL ASIA [30.09.11] V14-P8 Gameplay Fin?

Postby Victor Sullivan on Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:33 pm

Gameplay looks okay to me, just make sure to adjust D's bonus to 4, as you stated.

-Sully
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Re: RAIL ASIA [30.09.11] V14-P8 Gameplay Fin?

Postby cairnswk on Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:08 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:Gameplay looks okay to me, just make sure to adjust D's bonus to 4, as you stated.

-Sully

How careless of me. Done above in version 14. :)
Last edited by cairnswk on Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RAIL ASIA [30.09.11] V14-P8 Gameplay Fin?

Postby Victor Sullivan on Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:20 pm

*Gasp!* A gameplay fin! That could only mean... GAMEPLAY SHARK! EVERYONE OFF THE FOUNDRY BEACH!! :P

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Re: RAIL ASIA [30.09.11] V14-P8 Gameplay Fin?

Postby cairnswk on Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:21 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:*Gasp!* A gameplay fin! That could only mean... GAMEPLAY SHARK! EVERYONE OFF THE FOUNDRY BEACH!! :P

-Sully

Shhhh! Sully, you'll frighten everyone away :twisted:
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