Medal Stripping

[Great-Ollie]

Hey guys and gals. The Pack recently defeated IA in a clan war and our war thread got a little overboard with some pictures. We were warned and we stopped posting completely as we were trying to adhere to chemefreaks rules. Nothing else was said and we finally pulled off the victory a couple days ago. We were informed that 5 of our members would not be receiving medals? Really, so we follow all the rules, our thread did not get locked for more then 10 minutes, and we went on our merry way. So why did we not receive medals?
chemefreak has publically in our new war thread with Mythology stated his hatred for our clan. I know we are not the most liked clan out there, and we have made some enemies in the past, but the issue here is, was this medal stripping fair at all? No warning, no contact from a mod, nothing until we pmed chemefreak to inquire about it. I truely believe this is mod abuse at it's finest.

Thread: viewtopic.php?f=442&t=152904&start=540#p3407320

Here is a copy of our war thread. On page 37 you can find our one and only warning. I responded to it and shut down anything offensive from there forth. So is it fair that we get medals stripped? tec805, grifftron, John Deere, Great-Ollie, and GeneralRisk all were given medal stripping? chemefreak stated onus on clan leaders, and Generalrisk has publically apologized for his posts. So why did tec805, and grifftron get medals stripped? Why did myself and John Deere, because chemefreak trys to bait us in OUR war threads, hates us, we are not sure. This needs to stop period. Did we deserve a warning in the thread? Yes i think we did. Did we follow all requests to cease, yes we did. Moderator abuse needs to stop, period. Maybe i am the one being naive here, maybe nobody agrees with me here, that is what i want to see. Please make your opinions on the facts, not your feeling towards the Pack and it's members. We like to have fun, and we always play to win. Please only post constructively and keep personal attacks out of this thread. Thanks

[Leehar]

[Official] Clan Medals

Clan Medals
War Thread Behaviour

In order to curb some poor behaviour in the war threads, players will be denied medals if their behaviour is deemed to be disruptive or inappropriate, even if it does not meet the site wide policy for a forum infraction. In the past, we’ve locked war threads due to the behaviour of a single individual, thus inherently punishing both clans. In order to be consistent, this will only be applied by the Clan Dept Head (most often these issues are raised by the CD team).

At least the decision was consistent with the outlined policies?
I could understand if it was more arbitrary, but there has been a line drawn in the sand and if this is whats necessary to curb inappropriate behaviour, then it has to start somewhere?

[Great-Ollie]

[Official] Clan Medals

Clan Medals
War Thread Behaviour

In order to curb some poor behaviour in the war threads, players will be denied medals if their behaviour is deemed to be disruptive or inappropriate, even if it does not meet the site wide policy for a forum infraction. In the past, we’ve locked war threads due to the behaviour of a single individual, thus inherently punishing both clans. In order to be consistent, this will only be applied by the Clan Dept Head (most often these issues are raised by the CD team).

At least the decision was consistent with the outlined policies?
I could understand if it was more arbitrary, but there has been a line drawn in the sand and if this is whats necessary to curb inappropriate behaviour, then it has to start somewhere?

And i agree with that, but we should have been made aware of this rule, and warned, period. We adhered to the warning and yet we are still punished? Are we a dictatorship now? Really why would any of us give a shit now to follow rules? We received zero respect as paying customers on this site, zero, and then the mods choose to do whatever they feel like in our case. tec805 and grifftron, what did they do? Seriously what, answer that. They called a spade a spade. We never deserved this at all. Did Thota receive all their medals when their thread was shut down numerous times for days on end? I think they all did, hmmmmmmmmm, so why was our minor thread, which was locked for 10 minutes become the poster boy for this, because chemefreak abuse, that is why. Think about the number of war threads worse then this one, yet we pay the price. Like i said, support the facts, not the people.

Scary though for all the new clans out there, don't piss off the old guard or you will be treated like dirt. We all need to band together to stop this now, or we may as well all quit and find a site we can play, have fun, and is FAIR!

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Re: THE PACK vs. MYTHOLOGY {Random War Madness} Starting Nov

Postby chemefreak on Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:45 pm
I hate the Pack...

Random is a bitch. This one is truly old vs new. I'm going with new...but I expect Myth to put up a hell of a fight.

Good luck to both clans....although, when privs are requested I will need someone from Myth to actually acknowledge that this thread exists!

This is what chemefreak posted in our new war thread. Is this what a leader of the clans should be saying to a clan for no reason?

[chemefreak]

First, no medals were "stripped". That implies that we took them away after you received them. What we did was applied the following rule to not issue medals:

War Thread Behaviour

In order to curb some poor behaviour in the war threads, players will be denied medals if their behaviour is deemed to be disruptive or inappropriate, even if it does not meet the site wide policy for a forum infraction. In the past, we’ve locked war threads due to the behaviour of a single individual, thus inherently punishing both clans. In order to be consistent, this will only be applied by the Clan Dept Head (most often these issues are raised by the CD team).

This policy was in place before privileges were requested for this war.

Second, I have nothing against your clan personally. In fact, during the IA war I was invited by your clan's leadership to consider joining the Pack if I ever got the inclination (typically I would never post a private message, however, since it is relevant I think it is warranted here):

If you ever want a change pf scenery we are looking for a great player to join or ranks in a leadership role. We could use you for your playing skills and you leadership skills. You would fit right in as myself and John Deere are both 32. Think about it but i understand if you have loyalties to Legion.

Third, this was not an easy decision for us. We want everyone to have fun in clan wars. We also expect to have a little nastiness...it is a war after all. However, in this instance, we felt it went overboard, even after repeated warnings. It even filtered its way into other threads.

Fourth, the Mythology thread accusation is amusing...here is what I posted for the sake of clarity:

I hate the Pack...

Random is a bitch. This one is truly old vs new. I'm going with new...but I expect Myth to put up a hell of a fight.

Good luck to both clans....although, when privs are requested I will need someone from Myth to actually acknowledge that this thread exists!

As you can see from the original, it has never been edited.

Fifth, we are not going to post the abusive private messages we received from your clan here. We are also not going to post the many reported posts against your clan here. Masli and I are both super busy in our real lives. We are volunteering our time here. I spend about 2-3 hours PER DAY updating threads, issuing medals, issuing privileges, answering your questions, etc. I enjoy it for the most part. Abusing us and other moderators for your enjoyment should not have to be tolerated.

Sixth, your clan had a great win over a fantastic clan. The shame is that the war thread and whatever you guys decide to do here will be the only thing that people remember.

Seventh, power hungry? I don't even know where to start!

The bottom line is that everyone that did not receive a medal was warned on more than one occasion. We, at least I, never thought we would have to use that policy. It really sucks that it came to that. However, if there was ever a "right time" to use it since its inception, this was it. Also, having been in the clan community for almost four years now, I believe that the clan community will support this action, especially if they have read the war thread.

[Great-Ollie]

I disagree chemefreak, and that pm was a long time ago. I continue to try and be friends with you, but for what? Seriously this is mod abuse period. There was no announcement, no warning, nothing, you waited for THE PACK to do something stupid and decided to make them a poster boy for your rule. You even pmed me saying you were going to make an example out of our clan. So why don't you explain why there was blatent lack of communication, no warning, no private pm's nothing. Is that how you treat a paying customer in real life? You just do as you please because of your position of power. How many other clans, probably all newer will fell this wraith now that you have started down this road? Who moderates the mods? No one, hmmmmmmmmm, funny that we find a dictatorship site in a democratic country! Awesome, love it.

[chemefreak]

I disagree chemefreak, and that pm was a long time ago.

Sorry, forgot the time stamp. October 3, 2011.

[Great-Ollie]

I disagree chemefreak, and that pm was a long time ago.

Sorry, forgot the time stamp. October 3, 2011.

I don't care, i invited you because of your playing skills, now i know what a sneaky little feller you are. I formally retract my offer lol. There now quit trying to derail the topic at hand.

[greenoaks]

i don't see what the problem is. if you are playing for fun then why do you care that you didn't receive medals for your victory.

[betiko]

I don t really understand.
A warning had been formulated, I beleive it has been followed.
I think that if after your warning you had something against a poster, you should have mentionned "that s it, i warned you you are not getting your medal" and directly mention your decision.
I think that if you adress a sanction to someone the person needs to know why exactly; you have to put yourself in the shoes of those who have been sanctionned. What is the post that made you take the decision?
I m also quite surprised to see who has been sanctioned. Ollie and JD being both clan leaders, well I can understand because you know that by sanctioning them they will be more carefull and you held them responsible somehow of the clan s actions...
General Risk did post a lot of images ect and liked to answer a bit ironically and all (I think he behaved himself after the warning and I don t think he's been crossing lines after that)
After, there is Tec's and Grifftron's cases. What did they do? Tec for double posting? Griff for..I don t really know.

Anyway, all this to say that there is a general feeling of injustice in the clan for those who have been sanctionned, as we don t know what is the phrase or post that made you take the decision and it hasn't been stated when it happened. These guys just learn a month later they ve been sanctionned.
I completely understand that you already spend 2/3 hours a day helping on the clan forums (If lack had to pay you at your original attorney fees for that the site would ve shut down for bakrupcy I guess lol) and that you are not doing this to receive griefs and reproaches from people, you are doing it for fun and because you like contributing to the clan world community.
I don t know what PMs you guys might have been exchanging with fellow pack members and if they ve been that bad.
I don t know if anyone has already been sanctionned before them. I kind of feel it s to make an example somehow. If so, with or without quoting, do you mind explaining why these specific guys have been sanctionned, to understand and to try avoid this in the future?

thanks for your response

[hmsps]

So Chemefreak has stated publically that he hates your clan and he is a clan director with responsibilities I just see this as totally wrong, he should in his position be impartial. Doesnt fill me with much confidence

[The Voice]

Exactly who is "the old guard"? Is a new player joining an older clan part of it? Is an old player creating a new clan a part of it? I think it's best to clarify that all clans have been screwed over at one point (or at many points) since their inceptions. Often, it's to try and get the point across that something will not be considered acceptable. This idea that there's an older-clan bias just doesn't hold water. Of course, we all have biases. And this whole notion of democracy on this site isn't reasonable or feasible. I hate the idea of mods as much as the next person. But they're a necessary evil. 99% of us just want to play the game, not bring attention onto ourselves by stirring up trouble.

I like you guys. I do. But Ollie, you're not going to make many friends making sweeping generalizations about mods. Now, Betiko's post asking for clarification is very reasonable. It's important to know that nothing about the decision says any one of you is a bad person. Tec, for example, is a great and friendly player. This decision doesn't change that.

[tec805]

So Chemefreak has stated publically that he hates your clan and he is a clan director with responsibilities I just see this as totally wrong, he should in his position be impartial. Doesnt fill me with much confidence

Your baiting has gotten under my skin So a war is inevitable.

No, Pack no play, Pack no sign up. There are clans in the Top 25 playing, Pack scared

Nice. I predict that the Pack has 0% chance of winning any matches...I would probably predict that even if they were in one too

He's made it personal, I wouldn't worry too much about clans as a whole. He'll go out of his way to play nice with everyone to show he's a good guy. When the guy who gives out medals wants to give you crap just smile and turn the other cheek if you know whats best for you. And make sure you put a smiley on the post to make sure everyone knows it's all for fun

P.S. I'll make sure not to double post - wouldn't want to lose a medal over it!

[Great-Ollie]

Exactly who is "the old guard"? Is a new player joining an older clan part of it? Is an old player creating a new clan a part of it? I think it's best to clarify that all clans have been screwed over at one point (or at many points) since their inceptions. Often, it's to try and get the point across that something will not be considered acceptable. This idea that there's an older-clan bias just doesn't hold water. Of course, we all have biases. And this whole notion of democracy on this site isn't reasonable or feasible. I hate the idea of mods as much as the next person. But they're a necessary evil. 99% of us just want to play the game, not bring attention onto ourselves by stirring up trouble.

I like you guys. I do. But Ollie, you're not going to make many friends making sweeping generalizations about mods. Now, Betiko's post asking for clarification is very reasonable. It's important to know that nothing about the decision says any one of you is a bad person. Tec, for example, is a great and friendly player. This decision doesn't change that.

Not mods, one mod. I have not mentioned any other mods in this post. I generalized them maybe, but our problem is with one mod. Secondly i am mad, and i should be. We have been a target of chemefreak for a long time, and we are tired of it. We want serious answers, not a round about, bs, explanation. Keep avoiding the topic here, it is mod abuse period. I like you to Voice so let's try and keep it that way. Try and understand where we are coming from. For the last month we have been adhering to all the rules after we were warned and it got us nowhere. Then with no warning he nails us again. If this was you, what would you do? Seriously what would you do if you and your clan were targeted by a mod and he stripped your medals after you obeyed all his wishes?

[chemefreak]

I love how you are pulling quotes out of context. Most of those were when you were calling out my clan for a clan war. Or when I was trying to get The Pack to join the ACC. Seriously? If you are drawing "hate" from any of these you have some serious issues!

Also, this was not all my decision. I fully supported it and recommended it, but the ultimate decision was not mine to make. I mean you guys even poked at KA in the thread. What did you expect? Clan war medals and privileges are PRIVILEGES, not rights. When you request the privileges you agree to the rules promulgated by the Clan Directors. When you seek a medal for your war, you need to follow the rules promulgated by the Clan Directors.

In your private messages and here you mention other wars in the past where things got out of hand. Obviously, you are implicitly stating that your conduct in the war thread was the exact same type of behavior. The clan community called on the CDs for a fix to help stop that type of conduct. The response was the very rules several members of the Pack violated repeatedly even after warnings. Also, since we have installed a policy not to lock threads for extended period of times, you cannot rationally use that as an excuse to say that your thread was not that bad. It was.

[Great-Ollie]

So where in the rules does it say clan leaders will be held accountable? What did grifftron and tec805 do? Still avoiding the question. Spin it however you want, you will do whatever you want to do anyway because you are so innocent aren't you. Bad representation period for the site and i think we need to address it.

[codeblue1018]

Sound decision MODS; Well done!

[Great-Ollie]

Sound decision MODS; Well done!

Another Pack hater with a 3.2 rating, i was waiting for your bait post all day.

[betiko]

can we just know what these specific 5 guys said or did after your warning? is it all in the thread after p37 or is it on your wall/pm?
I just want to know what is considered crossing the line.
thanks

(fastposted)

[jefjef]

so we follow all the rules

The problem was you weren't and had an established history of violating CC's rules. (Yes - CC's rules - They are not chemefreaks rules).

Good decision by the clan directors.

Hopefully that type of behavior will not be seen anymore.

[John Deere]

Sound decision MODS; Well done!

Of course you wouldnt worry about clan medals, with all of the ones you have and all.....

[Great-Ollie]

so we follow all the rules

The problem was you weren't and had an established history of violating CC's rules. (Yes - CC's rules - They are not chemefreaks rules).

Good decision by the clan directors.

Hopefully that type of behavior will not be seen anymore.

Another known Pack hater, did i not ask for fact based posts, no Pack member hating posts. How was this a good ruling? In what fantasy world was this good? No warnings, no explanations, nothing. It is direct abuse and you haters need to look at the facts, period. There was no indication that this may happen, no warning by the mods, no explanation, nothing. We had to pm them and ask why we did not receive medals. Is that how this website is to be run? Really we all paid for this, some power hungry mod to ruin this site? Think before you speak people, it is abuse, and it is time to step up to the plate and voice your concerns.

[betiko]

ok, I just read from page 37, where chemefreak adressed a warning.

Yes, JD replies "sunshine and lollipops" to king achilles. Other than that?
general risk for posting japaneese surrending when we won? Ollie for defending himself? tec for.....? griff for.......?
I just don t get it. why adress a warning, it was already decided then.

Why did smegal get a medal after posting a titcake? lol

[Great-Ollie]

ok, I just read from page 37, where chemefreak adressed a warning.

Yes, JD replies "sunshine and lollipops" to king achilles. Other than that?
general risk for posting japaneese surrending when we won? Ollie for defending himself? tec for.....? griff for.......?
I just don t get it. why adress a warning, it was already decided then.

Why did smegal get a medal after posting a titcake? lol

There is nothing to get betiko, this is a personnel attack on our members. chemefreak has publically stated he hated our clan, now he is abusing his powers to do whatever he can to get us pissed off enough to get banned, or quit. He did mention to me in a pm that he was going to make an example out of our clan. How fair is that? Unreal, unethical, whatever else you can call it. I will not stand for it and we will never quit until we receive an explanation, which there is none, or a public apology.

[jefjef]

Fact based post:

This is not about hating the pack. It's about atrocious behavior.

From the IA war thread - Oct 3rd. - page 21...

I just want to let everyone know that the CDs are watching this thread closely. I also want to remind you all of the following:

Subject: Clan Medals [Revamp 2011]

War Thread Behaviour

In order to curb some poor behaviour in the war threads, players will be denied medals if their behaviour is deemed to be disruptive or inappropriate, even if it does not meet the site wide policy for a forum infraction. In the past, we’ve locked war threads due to the behaviour of a single individual, thus inherently punishing both clans. In order to be consistent, this will only be applied by the Clan Dept Head (most often these issues are raised by the CD team).

In other words, let's keep this civil. Thanks.

Yes you were warned. Publicly and also by private message according to one of your posts around page 36.

[Great-Ollie]

We know we we warned jefjef, then when they warned us on page 36 to cease we did! Get it through your head and quit trying to stir the pot. We did nothing that warrants this, there has been many threads worse then this one, so use your brain. So far the only 2 that have posted negative comments in here are jefjef who has our whole clan foed, and codeblue who has me foed. I am asking for a sensible discussion here, not the same bs you always post jefjef. Stay out of the thread if you can't see past your hatred for us. Did you notice that no where in the rules is it written that clan leaders will be held accountable!