lets talk then vote.

[Leehar]

Idk why everyone has this excessive desire to complicate these things needlessly. Just keep things clean and simple and you don't need to worry about this.
Sure it's nice to have clear lines drawn in the sand, but this is a malleable ground, and we're not gonna have something that'll satisfy everyone, and I doubt it'd be worth spending the time on doing even if it was possible.

Most people have the common sense to realize when they're crossing the line into ungentlemanly behaviour, and if you can't understand that then I'm sorry but you probably do need punishments to be handed out to you.

@jghost, I really doubt anybody is trying to restrain your freedom of expression, so I doubt that line of reasoning is really necessary. Cheme stated why the other thread was moved and locked with the op's consent, so there's really no conspiracy going on here. The general thought was that the steam had run it's course, but since eddie obviously missed taking part in that discussion because of his ban and felt left out he obv needed to start this up again (ya know I missed ya eddie ).
I still don't see anything particularly new or informative coming out of this other than the mod hate already evidenced, but nobody is likely to shut out your voice if you're able to keep reasonable indeterminable limits.

All thats necessary is to avoid being disruptive and inappropriate in clan war threads. Sure that can be dissected through an english dictionary to find out what exactly it means, but for most I'd assume it'd be easily understandable, and further complication is unnecessary. Again jghost mentioned that he's frustrated by people wanting to just let this go, but those same people (lv, tm and the probable numerous others that think it's not worth commenting here) have the same right to air their views that it's frustrating to see a mountain created out of a molehill.

It's interesting to see the football analogy pulled here since some people have been against forming professional sporting comparisons with cc, and it may have merit, but it really isn't that hard to see the punishment effects.
You cross a line, your clan medals are at risk, and your clan's war privileges as well. (whether you're in the participating clan or not).

There's really not much else to it. And there really shouldn't be...

Now if you guys do come up with another solution to curb inappropriate behaviour in war threads, then I'm sure the cd's will take it under due consideration. As cheme said, ofc this mechanism can be further clarified (beyond it's initial framework) with continued usage, but it really shouldn't need to be used as much.

[jackal31]

after the issue with the pack i think a general chat is needed about what other clans think these are my thoughts.

i think the present format is a little bit 1 sided as only war winners get punished. the rule at present can be used even if you do not break site rules. if a mod thinks you have crossed a line they can refuse medals. i feel this should be changed and instead of refusal of medal maybe issue a clan war participation ban escalating like forum and site bans. maybe something like.

1st offense =warning (clean sheet after 3 months good standing)
2nd offense = 1 month war ban. (6 months for clean sheet)
3rd offense = 2 month war ban. (9 months for clean sheet.)

then a continued equal amount of 2 months. what do you guys think.


ps lets keep this clean and try move forward.

To me, this shouldn't even be a conversation. Just turn the other cheek.

Look at the THOTA vs BpB thread. THOTA took the high ground and didnt retaliate to the childish antics of other people. If they did, then those people involved would be subject to the rules violations. In addition, the members from BpB who "crossed the line" were reprimanded accordingly. We dont need to have a separate set of rules for clan matches.

Just be good sports and play the game the way it was meant to be played.

[jghost7]

To me, this shouldn't even be a conversation. Just turn the other cheek.

Look at the THOTA vs BpB thread. THOTA took the high ground and didnt retaliate to the childish antics of other people. If they did, then those people involved would be subject to the rules violations. In addition, the members from BpB who "crossed the line" were reprimanded accordingly. We dont need to have a separate set of rules for clan matches.

Just be good sports and play the game the way it was meant to be played.

I agree here. 100%. There are rules already in effect for the whole community regarding this, so a new one is not really needed.


However,

Idk why everyone has this excessive desire to complicate these things needlessly. Just keep things clean and simple and you don't need to worry about this. Ideally this would be the case. But, Obviously things are not ideal so apparently it does need work. Besides, your idea of clean and simple may be different from JoePlayers idea of clean and simple, so does Joe get punished for that?
Sure it's nice to have clear lines drawn in the sand, but this is a malleable ground, and we're not gonna have something that'll satisfy everyone, and I doubt it'd be worth spending the time on doing even if it was possible. No sir, I disagree with you. If you are going to implement a rule regarding separate behavior guidelines for war threads vs all other threads, you will need to have a clearer line than is currently available. It is a natural occurrence for a little trash talk and jokes to be had in a war thread. No matter how small the sample, there will always be one who will somehow take offense at something said whether it was intended that way or not.

Most people have the common sense to realize when they're crossing the line into ungentlemanly behaviour, and if you can't understand that then I'm sorry but you probably do need punishments to be handed out to you. That is a line of crock. What line? There is no line established to be crossed, just some blurry blanket statement that covers everything and defines very little. There are a wide range of people who play here who all have different senses of humor and ideas on what they think would pass or not. With nothing to check against but the sitewide policy, how do you go about enforcing that vague rule? Lame. You are very ignorant indeed if you think people deserve to have punishments handed out to them because they wanted to have fun but have unintentionally stepped over some invisible line. I say make it clear or just use the already established sitewide policy and be done.

@jghost, I really doubt anybody is trying to restrain your freedom of expression, so I doubt that line of reasoning is really necessary. Cheme stated why the other thread was moved and locked with the op's consent, so there's really no conspiracy going on here. The general thought was that the steam had run it's course, but since eddie obviously missed taking part in that discussion because of his ban and felt left out he obv needed to start this up again (ya know I missed ya eddie ).
I still don't see anything particularly new or informative coming out of this other than the mod hate already evidenced, but nobody is likely to shut out your voice if you're able to keep reasonable indeterminable limits. No one mentioned restraining my "freedom of expression". And Cheme mentioned about the move, but not the lock. But either way that is not the issue here and there is no use in you trying to deflect. I mentioned that there is no discussion on the rule being considered by the CD's when there are obvious issues with it and there are players lobbying to help fix it.
You have no basis to claim you know the "general thought" about it, because if you had read anything you would know better. I will also state that there is not one ounce of "Mod Hate" in any of my previous statements at all. My statements and questions have all been neutral in tone, and have asked balanced questions and did not use references to the Pack IA thread to prove any points. Go back and read my posts in the other thread and in this one and you will see what I am saying.

All thats necessary is to avoid being disruptive and inappropriate in clan war threads. Sure that can be dissected through an english dictionary to find out what exactly it means, but for most I'd assume it'd be easily understandable, and further complication is unnecessary.
Obviously there are areas within that statement that need to be defined, especially when it would use personal opinion to judge the line. Other actions within this rule such as warnings and further punishments need to be defined. That blanket statement that currently stands as a rule defines very little and gives the CD's license to do as they please.(Not saying that it would be malicious but it leaves it open to be corrupted.) Also there is no stated action for non clan , and losing clan violators. Cheme mentioned a possibility for losing clan violators but that would need to be looked at,confirmed, and written into the rule. (Personally, I don't know if holding their next medal is a good punishment.) Also, there is no action for non clan violators which would need to be examined.
Again jghost mentioned that he's frustrated by people wanting to just let this go, but those same people (lv, tm and the probable numerous others that think it's not worth commenting here) have the same right to air their views that it's frustrating to see a mountain created out of a molehill. LOL, lets not mention your assumption of the people who have not posted yet. Probable in your estimation does not equal the sum of their opinion so lets not go there. As to your assuming that I am frustrated at their right to post is bollocks as well. My concern is that people won't give the rule a proper look because they are still focused on the Pack IA thread rather than taking a look at the rule in question properly and thinking about it in an unbiased manner and then being able to give discussion on it in a constructive manner. Then also having the CD's work with us to explain and amend whatever needs to adjusted. If you think that I am making a mountain out of a molehill, then just say so and be done, but if you engage in contesting my points, then I will assuredly and gladly pursue that debate. I believe my points to be valid and worth hearing and debating.

It's interesting to see the football analogy pulled here since some people have been against forming professional sporting comparisons with cc, and it may have merit, but it really isn't that hard to see the punishment effects.
You cross a line, your clan medals are at risk, and your clan's war privileges as well. (whether you're in the participating clan or not). (Beating a dead horse) What line???

There's really not much else to it. And there really shouldn't be...It really should be simple, but currently it is not. Jackals idea is as good as mine and could be given consideration.

Now if you guys do come up with another solution to curb inappropriate behaviour in war threads, then I'm sure the cd's will take it under due consideration. As cheme said, ofc this mechanism can be further clarified (beyond it's initial framework) with continued usage, but it really shouldn't need to be used as much. This is not the way to clarify it. In fact, it would be the worst way to do it. I think that would constitute making up the rules as you go along, but you can break it before you know its there. It needs to be defined so that it can be used , not used then defined.
I believe I am making the effort to try to work with the CD's but need them to participate with an open mind as well.

[Qwert]

It's interesting to see the football analogy pulled here since some people have been against forming professional sporting comparisons with cc, and it may have merit, but it really isn't that hard to see the punishment effects.

Well i look clan war, very similar to footbal match,its bouth team play, and here you have chance to implement similar punishment.
You see, some clan wars ,can be very intense and sharp,like most of footbal games, and that why referre(in these case TD) ,have yellow and red cards. Rules for refere are very clear,and they know what violation deserve yellow and what violation deserve red card. If in one game you get Yellow card,and in next game you get also yellow card,then you automatical can not play next game. Red card are tricky,because reffere commision,can give you much bigger punishment-for not play 2-3-4 games in row. These is apply for bouth sides. I know that because i lear these stuff,because i whas footbal reffere for some 2 years.
If you have written rules ,then people can know what to expect. I must say that im against not aloving to get hes medal, because he get this medal in appropriate way-playing for hes team. These is same when you score goal for your team,and after 5 minute you get red card, these not mean that refere will then cancel your score.

[eddie2]

can i just respond to a couple of things here.

The general thought was that the steam had run it's course, but since eddie obviously missed taking part in that discussion because of his ban and felt left out he obv needed to start this up again (ya know I missed ya eddie ).
I still don't see anything particularly new or informative coming out of this other than the mod hate already evidenced,

Leehar i was not forum banned when the other thread was going on. i made 1 post then seen it was going towards mod bashing(something i like to do for fun.) So i decided to step back out of it i made 1 point then left it.
after this i read the rule again and seen a couple of issues with the rule as it stands so decided to run a thread to talk about it.

Look at the THOTA vs BpB thread. THOTA took the high ground and didnt retaliate to the childish antics of other people. If they did, then those people involved would be subject to the rules violations. In addition, the members from BpB who "crossed the line" were reprimanded accordingly. We dont need to have a separate set of rules for clan matches.

Just be good sports and play the game the way it was meant to be played.

jackel true but there is a new rule stating medals wont be issued to any player winning a war that steps over a invisible line. because the line has been outside of site rules. so it needs to be more clear.

No amount of voting is going to help here. Keep it civil and obey warnings when they are given or medals will not be granted.

As for the "what if they were on the losing clans roster" question...the answer is simple...you will simply not get your next medal.

chemefreak the other thread you talk about was more of a backlash thread towards yourself from the pack. this thread is a more relaxed one. There are some things that are still a major concern. but i will make comments about your post first.

you say about voting this thread is a general thread for people to talk calm about it then have a vote to see what other clan members feel would be fair. you do not have to follow what the result is but it will give you guys something to help work the rule properly.

as for if the player was on the losing clans side having the medal stripped from there next clan war win. i feel this will spark a outrage for 2 simple reasons.
1)what if there next clan win was the ccup of any league final ???
2)what if that player should of been avarded the mvp award for that war and had acted more than appropriate for the thread.
see these are the kinds of things that need worked on.

now to the rule.
1)when masli changed or added these new things did he contact all clan leaders to let them know of it ???
2)

-Cheating claims and accusations in the war threads (excessive sitting, fog courtesy etc.) There is a site process for C&A, so please follow it.

there is no rule to stop any player from signing another player up to clan war games or even sitting all the game for them. (there was a vote in cla i understand but the final result was to keep it allowed within the rules of wars because we are using tourney privs.)

once again these things need to be corrected before enforcing any part of it. there are to many black areas that need filling.

[John Deere]

As for the "what if they were on the losing clans roster" question...the answer is simple...you will simply not get your next medal.

Sweet! So how many people from IA wont be getting there next medal? What some of the others that stirred shit in our thread that put us on the defensive?

[BoganGod]

So after the "talk", dribble, tiny violin playing, liver gnawing, grudge airing, crying, revisiting past "wrongs", etc et al. Then a vote???? The purpose of the vote? The message that the vote will send? The point of having a vote??? What will the vote change???

Answer to all above questions - nothing.

A vote would be a fart into the head wind of time.

Attention whores if you care so much - OPEN A FUCKING E-TICKET

If you dislike chemefreak(sour grapes me thinks) then ask yourselves why? Is it that you see a better man than yourself? Someone that contributes, plays with honour whilst being competitive? Look deep into your jealous, grubby little souls, grumbling attention whores, you will find the answer is yes!

[WPBRJ]

So after the "talk", dribble, tiny violin playing, liver gnawing, grudge airing, crying, revisiting past "wrongs", etc et al. Then a vote???? The purpose of the vote? The message that the vote will send? The point of having a vote??? What will the vote change???

Answer to all above questions - nothing.

A vote would be a fart into the head wind of time.

Attention whores if you care so much - OPEN A FUCKING E-TICKET

If you dislike chemefreak(sour grapes me thinks) then ask yourselves why? Is it that you see a better man than yourself? Someone that contributes, plays with honour whilst being competitive? Look deep into your jealous, grubby little souls, grumbling attention whores, you will find the answer is yes!

[Great-Ollie]

E Tickets are answered by same people that pull strings in what happens in the forums. The whole system is flawed and has serious issues. Secondly chemefreak could we please get a low down of why every player was denied medals, and what players and other posters in our IA war thread will get for punishments please. You better show the CC community that you are going to enforce everyone, and not just our clan. I still would like a clearer ruling, and if you are to deny us what we earned, then you better have documentation why it was denied, and what posted rules were broken. Otherwise you can make rules up as you go. Lastly to all the people who must comment on how simple everything is, HOW IS IT SIMPLE? We never even received a private pm explaining why medals were denied, they have yet to answer us. Take me for example, i never broke any written rules in the IA thread, yet my medal was denied? NO where, is it written that CLAN LEADERS are held accountable for the actions of other grown men on this site. I have remained quite the last 10 days trying to get answers, and no one answers me. So tell me Bogangod, what is sending another E ticket going to do? There is a long list of players who posted in the IA thread that according to chemefreaks new, unwritten rules will get punished. So who is it so we can be sure you will make these rulings fair for everyone. This includes posters from outside clans as well. Now everyone who loves to post and brown nose the mods has made all our members a little upset, but they are doing good at holding there tongues, when every new post has some mention of THE PACK. Yet no top clan will even mutter challenge within earshot of us. We understand rules needed put in place for war threads, what we do not understand is why we continually get no answers, no clarification, nothing. I have tried everything, even volunteered for a mod position, and i get no correspondance back. Is this right guys and gals?

[betiko]

disruptive and inappropriate is against the site rules...if the mods showed some balls and actually punished some people instead of trying to be friends with everyone. Just draw the line...make it clear. If anyone steps over it, then they are punished...if they don't...then there is nothing they can do about it. It is really not that difficult...There is no need for a committee to discuss this issue.

"if the mods showed some balls" if i was a mormon or any american super puritan that language would ve surely ofended me, and I guess there are a few on this site. that's why we want to be a bit clearer about the line.

to avoid any discussion the last thread that was the most active of the clan section at the time got moved into archives because no answers we ought to be given to it.

and bogan god; this thread has not been initiated by any pack member, but by other cc members that want to know more about this example that has been made.

[BoganGod]

disruptive and inappropriate is against the site rules...if the mods showed some balls and actually punished some people instead of trying to be friends with everyone. Just draw the line...make it clear. If anyone steps over it, then they are punished...if they don't...then there is nothing they can do about it. It is really not that difficult...There is no need for a committee to discuss this issue.

"if the mods showed some balls" if i was a mormon or any american super puritan that language would ve surely ofended me, and I guess there are a few on this site. that's why we want to be a bit clearer about the line.

to avoid any discussion the last thread that was the most active of the clan section at the time got moved into archives because no answers we ought to be given to it.

and bogan god; this thread has not been initiated by any pack member, but by other cc members that want to know more about this example that has been made.

Did I say anything about the pack???? kiddo it is not all about you and the puppy bottom sniffing circle of hind leg lifting, trouser humping. Obviously you missed all of the points I made. Lets rehash for a second. Sour grapes/negative/whining thread. Discussion which is circular going now where. Repeat thread. A possible vote which will be even more ineffectual than a fart in the wind. Got that now?

[BoganGod]

E Tickets are answered by same people that pull strings in what happens in the forums. The whole system is flawed and has serious issues. Secondly chemefreak could we please get a low down of why every player was denied medals, and what players and other posters in our IA war thread will get for punishments please. You better show the CC community that you are going to enforce everyone, and not just our clan. I still would like a clearer ruling, and if you are to deny us what we earned, then you better have documentation why it was denied, and what posted rules were broken. Otherwise you can make rules up as you go. Lastly to all the people who must comment on how simple everything is, HOW IS IT SIMPLE? We never even received a private pm explaining why medals were denied, they have yet to answer us. Take me for example, i never broke any written rules in the IA thread, yet my medal was denied? NO where, is it written that CLAN LEADERS are held accountable for the actions of other grown men on this site. I have remained quite the last 10 days trying to get answers, and no one answers me. So tell me Bogangod, what is sending another E ticket going to do? There is a long list of players who posted in the IA thread that according to chemefreaks new, unwritten rules will get punished. So who is it so we can be sure you will make these rulings fair for everyone. This includes posters from outside clans as well. Now everyone who loves to post and brown nose the mods has made all our members a little upset, but they are doing good at holding there tongues, when every new post has some mention of THE PACK. Yet no top clan will even mutter challenge within earshot of us. We understand rules needed put in place for war threads, what we do not understand is why we continually get no answers, no clarification, nothing. I have tried everything, even volunteered for a mod position, and i get no correspondance back. Is this right guys and gals?

I hear the pain ollie. Much as I don't have sympathetic feelings of any kind towards you. I can feel empathy, and understand that your in a sore, distrustful and wounded place right now. You've done great things with the pack well done. A distinct lack of maturity is evident and that comes with time. I DID NOT MENTION THE PACK IN MY ORIGINAL POST IN THIS THREAD. IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT THE PACK. Where there is a conflict of interest mods will step aside and let other mods revue the position taken.

The action taken against you has polarised the clan community to no small extent. Sadly it seems that the "old guard/good sports/establishment/those that chose to let their actions on the field speak" appear to think justice has been done. The "new guard/never were/dissent mongers/attention whores/menstruating hearted liberals/pinkos/etc" have all started howling poor pack, encroachment on personal liberties, the world will end at noon tomorrow. Chemefreak is the antichrist, there is no justice in the world, woe is me. I believe the eagles sang a song about a situation like this. Titled Get over it.

Not using the channels provided re-inforces the poor opinion that others have of both you, and your clan. No one knows what exactly has gone on in private correspondence between yourself and chemefreak, and quite frankly we don't need to know. Masli is easy to contact and approachable. Would probably be better to not be airing such raw naked pain and paranoia in public. With the E-TICKET system, just like life sometimes you don't get the answer you desire. Doesn't mean the system is broken(though it could be), might just mean that your wrong. Also rather than yes and no, there is also wait.

You and john deere, and your members have built a kick arse competitive clan. Why not use the smarts, strategic planning, patience, and cost/benefit analysis that you show on the field, in fora? I'm sure you can prove you have the maturity to do what it takes off the field to equal what you do on the field. Why waste your obvious talents and leadership skills in attempting to be a cheap rabble rousing single issue crybaby. You are capable of so much more.

Back on topic. A vote here is about as logical as fertility treatment for same sex attracted pandas, doomed to go no where.

[tec805]

I hear the pain ollie. Much as I don't have sympathetic feelings of any kind towards you. I can feel empathy, and understand that your in a sore, distrustful and wounded place right now. You've done great things with the pack well done. A distinct lack of maturity is evident and that comes with time. I DID NOT MENTION THE PACK IN MY ORIGINAL POST IN THIS THREAD. IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT THE PACK. Where there is a conflict of interest mods will step aside and let other mods revue the position taken.

The action taken against you has polarised the clan community to no small extent. Sadly it seems that the "old guard/good sports/establishment/those that chose to let their actions on the field speak" appear to think justice has been done. The "new guard/never were/dissent mongers/attention whores/menstruating hearted liberals/pinkos/etc" have all started howling poor pack, encroachment on personal liberties, the world will end at noon tomorrow. Chemefreak is the antichrist, there is no justice in the world, woe is me. I believe the eagles sang a song about a situation like this. Titled Get over it.

Not using the channels provided re-inforces the poor opinion that others have of both you, and your clan. No one knows what exactly has gone on in private correspondence between yourself and chemefreak, and quite frankly we don't need to know. Masli is easy to contact and approachable. Would probably be better to not be airing such raw naked pain and paranoia in public. With the E-TICKET system, just like life sometimes you don't get the answer you desire. Doesn't mean the system is broken(though it could be), might just mean that your wrong. Also rather than yes and no, there is also wait.

You and john deere, and your members have built a kick arse competitive clan. Why not use the smarts, strategic planning, patience, and cost/benefit analysis that you show on the field, in fora? I'm sure you can prove you have the maturity to do what it takes off the field to equal what you do on the field. Why waste your obvious talents and leadership skills in attempting to be a cheap rabble rousing single issue crybaby. You are capable of so much more.

Back on topic. A vote here is about as logical as fertility treatment for same sex attracted pandas, doomed to go no where.

I guess lynch really pissed you off to put so much time into your not-about-the-pack anti-pack message

[Gold Knight]

I hear the pain ollie. Much as I don't have sympathetic feelings of any kind towards you. I can feel empathy, and understand that your in a sore, distrustful and wounded place right now. You've done great things with the pack well done. A distinct lack of maturity is evident and that comes with time. I DID NOT MENTION THE PACK IN MY ORIGINAL POST IN THIS THREAD. IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT THE PACK. Where there is a conflict of interest mods will step aside and let other mods revue the position taken.

The action taken against you has polarised the clan community to no small extent. Sadly it seems that the "old guard/good sports/establishment/those that chose to let their actions on the field speak" appear to think justice has been done. The "new guard/never were/dissent mongers/attention whores/menstruating hearted liberals/pinkos/etc" have all started howling poor pack, encroachment on personal liberties, the world will end at noon tomorrow. Chemefreak is the antichrist, there is no justice in the world, woe is me. I believe the eagles sang a song about a situation like this. Titled Get over it.

Not using the channels provided re-inforces the poor opinion that others have of both you, and your clan. No one knows what exactly has gone on in private correspondence between yourself and chemefreak, and quite frankly we don't need to know. Masli is easy to contact and approachable. Would probably be better to not be airing such raw naked pain and paranoia in public. With the E-TICKET system, just like life sometimes you don't get the answer you desire. Doesn't mean the system is broken(though it could be), might just mean that your wrong. Also rather than yes and no, there is also wait.

You and john deere, and your members have built a kick arse competitive clan. Why not use the smarts, strategic planning, patience, and cost/benefit analysis that you show on the field, in fora? I'm sure you can prove you have the maturity to do what it takes off the field to equal what you do on the field. Why waste your obvious talents and leadership skills in attempting to be a cheap rabble rousing single issue crybaby. You are capable of so much more.

Back on topic. A vote here is about as logical as fertility treatment for same sex attracted pandas, doomed to go no where.

I guess lynch really pissed you off to put so much time into your not-about-the-pack anti-pack message

Other than the fact that everything he posted is 100% spot-on. Everyone tied his message into The Pack's situation, so he responded with his "actual" response to it. Ollie had it right when the issue was first brought up: move on and learn from it. Dragging this out is not going to change anything through the site, other than perceptions.

[BoganGod]

Still maintain kids, that a vote here is a waste of time. Read the post properly. Not anti pack. Possibly could be read as being critical of the packs attitude. Might note said quite a few positive things about the pack. Lynch is amusing, I was that dumb when I was 16.

[eddie2]

ow well i guess it is time i ask for this thread to be locked and moved. i started this thread to try get a general discussion about the rule changes that had taken place. i am sorry to say that 1 or 2 members have came in here bring up shit that wasnt needed in this thread.

posts like this.

Attention whores if you care so much - OPEN A FUCKING E-TICKET

If you dislike chemefreak(sour grapes me thinks) then ask yourselves why? Is it that you see a better man than yourself? Someone that contributes, plays with honour whilst being competitive? Look deep into your jealous, grubby little souls, grumbling attention whores, you will find the answer is yes!

Did I say anything about the pack???? kiddo it is not all about you and the puppy bottom sniffing circle of hind leg lifting, trouser humping. Obviously you missed all of the points I made. Lets rehash for a second. Sour grapes/negative/whining thread. Discussion which is circular going now where. Repeat thread. A possible vote which will be even more ineffectual than a fart in the wind. Got that now?

these posts have brought shit into this thread that.

a)were not needed
b) could be classed as baiting (of the pack members and people who were actualy willing to talk about this issue.)
c)flaming (of members willing to talk properly about a rule.
i do hope a mod reviews this thread and issues some form of ban. because also in this the posts quoted above are trying to make out we are bashing chemefreak, which at no point in this thread anybody made a bad reference to him. he was just following a rule that was in place. but this rule needs reviewed and formated properly.

[BoganGod]

this thread could be thought of as thoughtless, and has no point. As to bait, seems that folks are baiting chemefreak. eddie you know this thread and purported vote is pointless and inflammatory.

[chemefreak]

Locked at request of OP. Moved to archives.