lets talk then vote.

[TheMissionary]

I vote to let it go.

[Metsfanmax]

Seems pretty straightforward to me. Losing your medal for inappropriate behavior almost never happens in team competitions - qwert gave one example, but the same policy holds elsewhere. In such team sports, inappropriate behavior is punished by being sidelined for some number of games.

[eddie2]

Seems pretty straightforward to me. Losing your medal for inappropriate behavior almost never happens in team competitions - qwert gave one example, but the same policy holds elsewhere. In such team sports, inappropriate behavior is punished by being sidelined for some number of games.

yep i like the idea of the war ban escalating per warning instead of a time frame. but i would also like to see if a player is warned there is a cool off period where the warning is erased after a certain amount of time.

[jghost7]

Seems pretty straightforward to me. Losing your medal for inappropriate behavior almost never happens in team competitions - qwert gave one example, but the same policy holds elsewhere. In such team sports, inappropriate behavior is punished by being sidelined for some number of games.

There is also consideration needed for non clan posters as well. They would not be affected by any benching protocol.

[jefjef]

Seems pretty straightforward to me. Losing your medal for inappropriate behavior almost never happens in team competitions - qwert gave one example, but the same policy holds elsewhere. In such team sports, inappropriate behavior is punished by being sidelined for some number of games.

There is also consideration needed for non clan posters as well. They would not be affected by any benching protocol.

Are you referring to posts like smeagirls in this war thread that he is not a participant in?

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=441&p=3472102#p3472102

[chemefreak]

I vote to let it go.

This is a great idea!

Also, the thread called "medal stripping" was archived with the permission of the OP. I'm not sure who locked it, but it appears there were several posts after it moved to archives...which is just silly!

No amount of voting is going to help here. Keep it civil and obey warnings when they are given or medals will not be granted.

As for the "what if they were on the losing clans roster" question...the answer is simple...you will simply not get your next medal.

If the behavior continues, then the player (or the entire clan) will be denied privileges the next time they seek them.

The site rules apply to the clan forum. However, it is sometimes very difficult for moderators to determine what is and isn't okay in the context of a war thread. Thus, they tend to let things go. The CDs have decided to enforce the peace with the rules that everyone has to agree to when they use the privilege system or want medals. What is so hard to understand about that?

[Great-Ollie]

As for the "what if they were on the losing clans roster" question...the answer is simple...you will simply not get your next medal.

Cool man i think that is what people were asking. I think the only confusion is the clarity of the rules and the punishments. The actual rulings and such i trust the mods decisions. Just wanted some clarity and you just provided it, thank you.

[chemefreak]

As for the "what if they were on the losing clans roster" question...the answer is simple...you will simply not get your next medal.

Cool man i think that is what people were asking. I think the only confusion is the clarity of the rules and the punishments. The actual rulings and such i trust the mods decisions. Just wanted some clarity and you just provided it, thank you.

The system is new. So it will need a history of rulings to help clarify the parameters. Hopefully that will never happen.

[jghost7]

I vote to let it go.

This is a great idea!

Also, the thread called "medal stripping" was archived with the permission of the OP. I'm not sure who locked it, but it appears there were several posts after it moved to archives...which is just silly!

No amount of voting is going to help here. Keep it civil and obey warnings when they are given or medals will not be granted.

As for the "what if they were on the losing clans roster" question...the answer is simple...you will simply not get your next medal.

If the behavior continues, then the player (or the entire clan) will be denied privileges the next time they seek them.

The site rules apply to the clan forum. However, it is sometimes very difficult for moderators to determine what is and isn't okay in the context of a war thread. Thus, they tend to let things go. The CDs have decided to enforce the peace with the rules that everyone has to agree to when they use the privilege system or want medals. What is so hard to understand about that?

What is so hard to understand? I think the fact that the line is not clear on what is and what isn't okay in the context of a war thread. That is hard to understand, especially when a warning is not necessary for it to be enforced. What is hard to understand? What is the penalty for non-clan posters who post in a clan war thread? What is hard to understand? Why it is not available to be discussed officially by the community? What is hard to understand? Its hard to understand where that punishment about the non-winners is outlined in the rules so we can see. Or even if it is the right thing to do. What is hard to understand? Why certain players wish to ignore this rule rather than have it clarified. What is hard to understand? Why we are not being permitted to have this discussion and being able to have a say or be satisfied with an ample explanation that satisfies our need to know these things.

It is frustrating when I and others attempt to ask legitimate questions and the powers that be think it is simpler to ignore and move on. Just because you think it is so simple doesn't mean it is. I ask that you give us a voice and be reasonable with your responses. I believe I have quite reasonably asked these questions in this and the other forum that the question was raised in and found no official responses to my queries, and in fact have found one of the threads buried altogether.

thanks,
J

[smegal69]

Seems pretty straightforward to me. Losing your medal for inappropriate behavior almost never happens in team competitions - qwert gave one example, but the same policy holds elsewhere. In such team sports, inappropriate behavior is punished by being sidelined for some number of games.

There is also consideration needed for non clan posters as well. They would not be affected by any benching protocol.

Are you referring to posts like smeagirls in this war thread that he is not a participant in?

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=441&p=3472102#p3472102

yes maybe like that post jefjef...... but until there is a clear set of rule's where is the line?

i think there should be a clear line...... for all posts in a clan war thread and not just the winning team punished.
first breach....... you receive a warning, for both players and spectators.

second breach.... player in winning clan will not receive his medal, player in losing clan has a stand down of two wars, spectator gets banned from clan forum for a period of time, maybe 4-6 weeks

third breach.....player gets stood down from all clan wars and threads for up-to 6 months, this for players and spectators alike

but there needs to be a clear set of rules, as i have seen Clan Mods use abusive language in war threads ...... so can anybody use it or is that up to a Clan Mod's desecration who can and who can't??

also how can a clan leader be held responsible for what someone in there clan has written? do they have to approve every post before it is posted? maybe if there is a group of clan members that are breaking the rule's the clan gets a warning, if the behavior continues then they get there privileges taken away for a set period of time.

p.s jefjef we all know how you are the king of mass de baiting

[Leehar]

Idk why everyone has this excessive desire to complicate these things needlessly. Just keep things clean and simple and you don't need to worry about this.
Sure it's nice to have clear lines drawn in the sand, but this is a malleable ground, and we're not gonna have something that'll satisfy everyone, and I doubt it'd be worth spending the time on doing even if it was possible.

Most people have the common sense to realize when they're crossing the line into ungentlemanly behaviour, and if you can't understand that then I'm sorry but you probably do need punishments to be handed out to you.

@jghost, I really doubt anybody is trying to restrain your freedom of expression, so I doubt that line of reasoning is really necessary. Cheme stated why the other thread was moved and locked with the op's consent, so there's really no conspiracy going on here. The general thought was that the steam had run it's course, but since eddie obviously missed taking part in that discussion because of his ban and felt left out he obv needed to start this up again (ya know I missed ya eddie ).
I still don't see anything particularly new or informative coming out of this other than the mod hate already evidenced, but nobody is likely to shut out your voice if you're able to keep reasonable indeterminable limits.

All thats necessary is to avoid being disruptive and inappropriate in clan war threads. Sure that can be dissected through an english dictionary to find out what exactly it means, but for most I'd assume it'd be easily understandable, and further complication is unnecessary. Again jghost mentioned that he's frustrated by people wanting to just let this go, but those same people (lv, tm and the probable numerous others that think it's not worth commenting here) have the same right to air their views that it's frustrating to see a mountain created out of a molehill.

It's interesting to see the football analogy pulled here since some people have been against forming professional sporting comparisons with cc, and it may have merit, but it really isn't that hard to see the punishment effects.
You cross a line, your clan medals are at risk, and your clan's war privileges as well. (whether you're in the participating clan or not).

There's really not much else to it. And there really shouldn't be...

Now if you guys do come up with another solution to curb inappropriate behaviour in war threads, then I'm sure the cd's will take it under due consideration. As cheme said, ofc this mechanism can be further clarified (beyond it's initial framework) with continued usage, but it really shouldn't need to be used as much.

[jackal31]

after the issue with the pack i think a general chat is needed about what other clans think these are my thoughts.

i think the present format is a little bit 1 sided as only war winners get punished. the rule at present can be used even if you do not break site rules. if a mod thinks you have crossed a line they can refuse medals. i feel this should be changed and instead of refusal of medal maybe issue a clan war participation ban escalating like forum and site bans. maybe something like.

1st offense =warning (clean sheet after 3 months good standing)
2nd offense = 1 month war ban. (6 months for clean sheet)
3rd offense = 2 month war ban. (9 months for clean sheet.)

then a continued equal amount of 2 months. what do you guys think.


ps lets keep this clean and try move forward.

To me, this shouldn't even be a conversation. Just turn the other cheek.

Look at the THOTA vs BpB thread. THOTA took the high ground and didnt retaliate to the childish antics of other people. If they did, then those people involved would be subject to the rules violations. In addition, the members from BpB who "crossed the line" were reprimanded accordingly. We dont need to have a separate set of rules for clan matches.

Just be good sports and play the game the way it was meant to be played.

[jghost7]

To me, this shouldn't even be a conversation. Just turn the other cheek.

Look at the THOTA vs BpB thread. THOTA took the high ground and didnt retaliate to the childish antics of other people. If they did, then those people involved would be subject to the rules violations. In addition, the members from BpB who "crossed the line" were reprimanded accordingly. We dont need to have a separate set of rules for clan matches.

Just be good sports and play the game the way it was meant to be played.

I agree here. 100%. There are rules already in effect for the whole community regarding this, so a new one is not really needed.


However,

Idk why everyone has this excessive desire to complicate these things needlessly. Just keep things clean and simple and you don't need to worry about this. Ideally this would be the case. But, Obviously things are not ideal so apparently it does need work. Besides, your idea of clean and simple may be different from JoePlayers idea of clean and simple, so does Joe get punished for that?
Sure it's nice to have clear lines drawn in the sand, but this is a malleable ground, and we're not gonna have something that'll satisfy everyone, and I doubt it'd be worth spending the time on doing even if it was possible. No sir, I disagree with you. If you are going to implement a rule regarding separate behavior guidelines for war threads vs all other threads, you will need to have a clearer line than is currently available. It is a natural occurrence for a little trash talk and jokes to be had in a war thread. No matter how small the sample, there will always be one who will somehow take offense at something said whether it was intended that way or not.

Most people have the common sense to realize when they're crossing the line into ungentlemanly behaviour, and if you can't understand that then I'm sorry but you probably do need punishments to be handed out to you. That is a line of crock. What line? There is no line established to be crossed, just some blurry blanket statement that covers everything and defines very little. There are a wide range of people who play here who all have different senses of humor and ideas on what they think would pass or not. With nothing to check against but the sitewide policy, how do you go about enforcing that vague rule? Lame. You are very ignorant indeed if you think people deserve to have punishments handed out to them because they wanted to have fun but have unintentionally stepped over some invisible line. I say make it clear or just use the already established sitewide policy and be done.

@jghost, I really doubt anybody is trying to restrain your freedom of expression, so I doubt that line of reasoning is really necessary. Cheme stated why the other thread was moved and locked with the op's consent, so there's really no conspiracy going on here. The general thought was that the steam had run it's course, but since eddie obviously missed taking part in that discussion because of his ban and felt left out he obv needed to start this up again (ya know I missed ya eddie ).
I still don't see anything particularly new or informative coming out of this other than the mod hate already evidenced, but nobody is likely to shut out your voice if you're able to keep reasonable indeterminable limits. No one mentioned restraining my "freedom of expression". And Cheme mentioned about the move, but not the lock. But either way that is not the issue here and there is no use in you trying to deflect. I mentioned that there is no discussion on the rule being considered by the CD's when there are obvious issues with it and there are players lobbying to help fix it.
You have no basis to claim you know the "general thought" about it, because if you had read anything you would know better. I will also state that there is not one ounce of "Mod Hate" in any of my previous statements at all. My statements and questions have all been neutral in tone, and have asked balanced questions and did not use references to the Pack IA thread to prove any points. Go back and read my posts in the other thread and in this one and you will see what I am saying.

All thats necessary is to avoid being disruptive and inappropriate in clan war threads. Sure that can be dissected through an english dictionary to find out what exactly it means, but for most I'd assume it'd be easily understandable, and further complication is unnecessary.
Obviously there are areas within that statement that need to be defined, especially when it would use personal opinion to judge the line. Other actions within this rule such as warnings and further punishments need to be defined. That blanket statement that currently stands as a rule defines very little and gives the CD's license to do as they please.(Not saying that it would be malicious but it leaves it open to be corrupted.) Also there is no stated action for non clan , and losing clan violators. Cheme mentioned a possibility for losing clan violators but that would need to be looked at,confirmed, and written into the rule. (Personally, I don't know if holding their next medal is a good punishment.) Also, there is no action for non clan violators which would need to be examined.
Again jghost mentioned that he's frustrated by people wanting to just let this go, but those same people (lv, tm and the probable numerous others that think it's not worth commenting here) have the same right to air their views that it's frustrating to see a mountain created out of a molehill. LOL, lets not mention your assumption of the people who have not posted yet. Probable in your estimation does not equal the sum of their opinion so lets not go there. As to your assuming that I am frustrated at their right to post is bollocks as well. My concern is that people won't give the rule a proper look because they are still focused on the Pack IA thread rather than taking a look at the rule in question properly and thinking about it in an unbiased manner and then being able to give discussion on it in a constructive manner. Then also having the CD's work with us to explain and amend whatever needs to adjusted. If you think that I am making a mountain out of a molehill, then just say so and be done, but if you engage in contesting my points, then I will assuredly and gladly pursue that debate. I believe my points to be valid and worth hearing and debating.

It's interesting to see the football analogy pulled here since some people have been against forming professional sporting comparisons with cc, and it may have merit, but it really isn't that hard to see the punishment effects.
You cross a line, your clan medals are at risk, and your clan's war privileges as well. (whether you're in the participating clan or not). (Beating a dead horse) What line???

There's really not much else to it. And there really shouldn't be...It really should be simple, but currently it is not. Jackals idea is as good as mine and could be given consideration.

Now if you guys do come up with another solution to curb inappropriate behaviour in war threads, then I'm sure the cd's will take it under due consideration. As cheme said, ofc this mechanism can be further clarified (beyond it's initial framework) with continued usage, but it really shouldn't need to be used as much. This is not the way to clarify it. In fact, it would be the worst way to do it. I think that would constitute making up the rules as you go along, but you can break it before you know its there. It needs to be defined so that it can be used , not used then defined.
I believe I am making the effort to try to work with the CD's but need them to participate with an open mind as well.

[Qwert]

It's interesting to see the football analogy pulled here since some people have been against forming professional sporting comparisons with cc, and it may have merit, but it really isn't that hard to see the punishment effects.

Well i look clan war, very similar to footbal match,its bouth team play, and here you have chance to implement similar punishment.
You see, some clan wars ,can be very intense and sharp,like most of footbal games, and that why referre(in these case TD) ,have yellow and red cards. Rules for refere are very clear,and they know what violation deserve yellow and what violation deserve red card. If in one game you get Yellow card,and in next game you get also yellow card,then you automatical can not play next game. Red card are tricky,because reffere commision,can give you much bigger punishment-for not play 2-3-4 games in row. These is apply for bouth sides. I know that because i lear these stuff,because i whas footbal reffere for some 2 years.
If you have written rules ,then people can know what to expect. I must say that im against not aloving to get hes medal, because he get this medal in appropriate way-playing for hes team. These is same when you score goal for your team,and after 5 minute you get red card, these not mean that refere will then cancel your score.

[eddie2]

can i just respond to a couple of things here.

The general thought was that the steam had run it's course, but since eddie obviously missed taking part in that discussion because of his ban and felt left out he obv needed to start this up again (ya know I missed ya eddie ).
I still don't see anything particularly new or informative coming out of this other than the mod hate already evidenced,

Leehar i was not forum banned when the other thread was going on. i made 1 post then seen it was going towards mod bashing(something i like to do for fun.) So i decided to step back out of it i made 1 point then left it.
after this i read the rule again and seen a couple of issues with the rule as it stands so decided to run a thread to talk about it.

Look at the THOTA vs BpB thread. THOTA took the high ground and didnt retaliate to the childish antics of other people. If they did, then those people involved would be subject to the rules violations. In addition, the members from BpB who "crossed the line" were reprimanded accordingly. We dont need to have a separate set of rules for clan matches.

Just be good sports and play the game the way it was meant to be played.

jackel true but there is a new rule stating medals wont be issued to any player winning a war that steps over a invisible line. because the line has been outside of site rules. so it needs to be more clear.

No amount of voting is going to help here. Keep it civil and obey warnings when they are given or medals will not be granted.

As for the "what if they were on the losing clans roster" question...the answer is simple...you will simply not get your next medal.

chemefreak the other thread you talk about was more of a backlash thread towards yourself from the pack. this thread is a more relaxed one. There are some things that are still a major concern. but i will make comments about your post first.

you say about voting this thread is a general thread for people to talk calm about it then have a vote to see what other clan members feel would be fair. you do not have to follow what the result is but it will give you guys something to help work the rule properly.

as for if the player was on the losing clans side having the medal stripped from there next clan war win. i feel this will spark a outrage for 2 simple reasons.
1)what if there next clan win was the ccup of any league final ???
2)what if that player should of been avarded the mvp award for that war and had acted more than appropriate for the thread.
see these are the kinds of things that need worked on.

now to the rule.
1)when masli changed or added these new things did he contact all clan leaders to let them know of it ???
2)

-Cheating claims and accusations in the war threads (excessive sitting, fog courtesy etc.) There is a site process for C&A, so please follow it.

there is no rule to stop any player from signing another player up to clan war games or even sitting all the game for them. (there was a vote in cla i understand but the final result was to keep it allowed within the rules of wars because we are using tourney privs.)

once again these things need to be corrected before enforcing any part of it. there are to many black areas that need filling.