Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby Dukasaur on Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:36 pm

ben79 wrote:i was wondering if it was possible to have the same deployement as on the king's court map ... i played a 1 vs 1 on clandemonium and it took at least an hour to play it
i mean having only 2 starting positions instead of 5

An hour for the whole game, or an hour for a turn?

I've had 1v1s on Clandemonium go more than two weeks, but even the most complicated turns didn't take more than 10 or 12 minutes along the way.
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:18 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
ben79 wrote:i was wondering if it was possible to have the same deployement as on the king's court map ... i played a 1 vs 1 on clandemonium and it took at least an hour to play it
i mean having only 2 starting positions instead of 5

An hour for the whole game, or an hour for a turn?

I've had 1v1s on Clandemonium go more than two weeks, but even the most complicated turns didn't take more than 10 or 12 minutes along the way.


Damn! Your post has reminded me that I promised that fix to Kab long time ago.
Kab, I'll do it this weekend. Sorry for the delay....i totally forgot it. :oops:

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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby Victor Sullivan on Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:51 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:
ben79 wrote:i was wondering if it was possible to have the same deployement as on the king's court map ... i played a 1 vs 1 on clandemonium and it took at least an hour to play it
i mean having only 2 starting positions instead of 5

An hour for the whole game, or an hour for a turn?

I've had 1v1s on Clandemonium go more than two weeks, but even the most complicated turns didn't take more than 10 or 12 minutes along the way.


Damn! Your post has reminded me that I promised that fix to Kab long time ago.
Kab, I'll do it this weekend. Sorry for the delay....i totally forgot it. :oops:

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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:46 am

I've updated the xml (max 2 positions for each players). Kab, if it is ok for you I'll send it to the turtle.

the link is the same you have in the first post, let me know ;)

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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby Kabanellas on Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:42 pm

Thanks a lot NB!!!! you're the man!!!! ;)
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:03 am

Updated, let me know how it works :P

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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby Dukasaur on Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:09 am

It's absolutely terrible.

The nice part about having 5 starting points is that good/bad dice tend to average out, and everybody starts with an almost-level playing field. For this reason, Clandemonium was the ONLY "Conquest-type" map where strategy was more important than luck. Cutting it back to two starting points means it will be like every other Conquest-type map, all about lucky dice. First guy to get a good streak going and break past 6 terts wins.
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby thenobodies80 on Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:13 am

We can increase it. Kabanellas what do you think?

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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby Kabanellas on Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:12 am

that makes sense... the game-play mechanics here are quite different from King's Court, were cutting the starting points to 2 was an improvement. That can work the other way around for Clandemonium.

I'm ok with taking it all back...
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby HighlanderAttack on Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:32 am

Dukasaur wrote:It's absolutely terrible.

The nice part about having 5 starting points is that good/bad dice tend to average out, and everybody starts with an almost-level playing field. For this reason, Clandemonium was the ONLY "Conquest-type" map where strategy was more important than luck. Cutting it back to two starting points means it will be like every other Conquest-type map, all about lucky dice. First guy to get a good streak going and break past 6 terts wins.



I totally agree here--why the change--I just read back starting from August 27th and I guess I missed why it was changed anyway. I didn't think large changes occurred to quenched maps like this.
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby Blitzaholic on Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:36 am

hello highlanderattack and all, I was not made aware of any change, and I would hope to be included in the say since this is my concept before any changes become implemented.

please consider nobodies and kab, thank you.

perhaps shoot me a PM and let's discuss this!
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby Jippd on Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:28 pm

Yeah came here as well I do not like the change on clandemonium. 10280620 - I see no odds of me winning this as they're two drops surround one of mine and my other guy is way far away.

I also find it weird that a map that made it past final forge was changed with just one person requesting the change.
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby patrickaa317 on Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:07 pm

Jippd wrote:
I also find it weird that a map that made it past final forge was changed with just one person requesting the change.


+1
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby natty dread on Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:54 am

patrickaa317 wrote:
Jippd wrote:
I also find it weird that a map that made it past final forge was changed with just one person requesting the change.


+1


There's nothing weird about it, it's within the mapmakers' discretion to decide for changes after quenching, whether it's 1 person or 100 who's posting about it.

Also, just because only 1 person posted in the thread doesn't mean the mapmakers haven't received other feedback about it.
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby Jippd on Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:21 pm

natty_dread wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:
Jippd wrote:
I also find it weird that a map that made it past final forge was changed with just one person requesting the change.


+1


There's nothing weird about it, it's within the mapmakers' discretion to decide for changes after quenching, whether it's 1 person or 100 who's posting about it.

Also, just because only 1 person posted in the thread doesn't mean the mapmakers haven't received other feedback about it.


For the sake of debating to debate.

Weird by definition is something unusual.

Maps do not get major gameplay changes every day after they make it past final forge since I have been on the site, in fact I would say it is a rare or UNUSUAL event.

So, I guess the issue of whether it is weird or not depends on your definition of weird.
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby natty dread on Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:36 pm

Jippd wrote:For the sake of debating to debate.

Weird by definition is something unusual.


For the sake of debating...

An unusual occurence is something that doesn't happen often or regularly. A weird occurence is either something that has no explanation, or is inherently absurd or unnatural.

Jippd wrote:Maps do not get changed every day after they make it past final forge since I have been on the site, in fact I would say it is a rare or UNUSUAL event.


Which makes it unusual, but not weird.

Jippd wrote:So, I guess the issue of whether it is weird or not depends on your definition of weird.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/weird

weird
   [weerd] adjective, -er, -est, noun
adjective
1.
involving or suggesting the supernatural; unearthly or uncanny: a weird sound; weird lights.
2.
fantastic; bizarre: a weird getup.
3.
Archaic. concerned with or controlling fate or destiny.

Synonyms
1. unnatural, preternatural. weird, eerie, unearthly, uncanny refer to that which is mysterious and apparently outside natural law. Weird refers to that which is suggestive of the fateful intervention of supernatural influences in human affairs: the weird adventures of a group lost in the jungle. Eerie refers to that which, by suggesting the ghostly, makes one's flesh creep: an eerie moaning from a deserted house. Unearthly refers to that which seems by its nature to belong to another world: an unearthly light that preceded the storm. Uncanny refers to that which is mysterious because of its apparent defiance of the laws established by experience: an uncanny ability to recall numbers.

Antonyms
1. natural.
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby Blitzaholic on Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:49 pm

we may need to have 4 starting positions for 1 vs 1 games and dubs games, this may make it a little better for the player who does not go first? what you think on this kab? would this serve to be more helpful?


2 other things for ideas kab, see what you think here m8, see what others think as well.

1. deep lands 4 through 12 could all be 3 neutrals not 2?

2. Tofu 13, IA 12, ID 14, AoD 13, The Legion 14, LoW 09, Thota 13, Empire 14, BSS 13, TsM 13 = all could have a symbol on them representing clan leader land?

These territories are usually meaningless in most games, however, if it was a clan leader land with a cool symbol and a reward of an auto bonus of +1 for holding the land, and a auto bonus of +1 every round you hold it automatically, it may attract some to go for it, creating for more valuable areas to enrich the map. Or if there is not enough room in the key, you could make those territories of neutral 1's?


These changes could help aid in improving the map slightly? What do others think? What do you think Kab?
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby Jippd on Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:55 pm

Look at your definition of weird...point two...defined as bizarre...now look up the definition for bizarre.

Thank you

So unless your saying that the reference YOU posted which states weird as being defined as bizarre is wrong.. I guess my OP was correct
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby natty dread on Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:18 pm

Jippd wrote:Look at your definition of weird...point two...defined as bizarre...now look up the definition for bizarre.

Thank you

So unless your saying that the reference YOU posted which states weird as being defined as bizarre is wrong.. I guess my OP was correct


Look further down the definition of bizarre. The differences between bizarre and weird are outlined there:

Synonyms
Bizarre, fantastic, grotesque, weird share a sense of deviation from what is normal or expected. Bizarre means markedly unusual or extraordinarily strange, sometimes whimsically so: bizarre costumes for Mardi Gras; bizarre behavior. [...] Weird refers to that which is mysterious and apparently outside natural law, hence supernatural or uncanny: the weird adventures of a group lost in the jungle; a weird and ghostly apparition. Informally, weird means “very strange”: weird and wacky costumes; weird sense of humor.
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby patrickaa317 on Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:26 pm

Has a map ever been pulled back into BETA status? I think with the recent changes and talks of new changes, perhaps it should be done with this one...
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby ender516 on Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:59 pm

The Pearl Harbor map underwent some drastic changes, IIRC.
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby Dukasaur on Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:35 am

patrickaa317 wrote:Has a map ever been pulled back into BETA status? I think with the recent changes and talks of new changes, perhaps it should be done with this one...

There was nothing wrong with the map. It was, IMHO, one of the best maps on the site. Then, a single person complained about it (and not even eloquently or in great detail) and for some inexplicable reason based on that ONE incoherent complaint, the map was changed? And now you think it needs a full-scale revamp because of one single unecessary change that can easily be reversed?
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby Kabanellas on Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:45 am

Blitzaholic wrote:we may need to have 4 starting positions for 1 vs 1 games and dubs games, this may make it a little better for the player who does not go first? what you think on this kab? would this serve to be more helpful?


2 other things for ideas kab, see what you think here m8, see what others think as well.

1. deep lands 4 through 12 could all be 3 neutrals not 2?

Seems ok :)

2. Tofu 13, IA 12, ID 14, AoD 13, The Legion 14, LoW 09, Thota 13, Empire 14, BSS 13, TsM 13 = all could have a symbol on them representing clan leader land?

These territories are usually meaningless in most games, however, if it was a clan leader land with a cool symbol and a reward of an auto bonus of +1 for holding the land, and a auto bonus of +1 every round you hold it automatically, it may attract some to go for it, creating for more valuable areas to enrich the map. Or if there is not enough room in the key, you could make those territories of neutral 1's?

Well, I see a problem here, that would be adding more confusion to the rules which are clear and conceptually precise. (apart from the problem of not having more room/space on the legend board for extra information)
Why not making those distant region starting with 1 neutral troop instead of 2? they will always be useful for region count purposes
:)


These changes could help aid in improving the map slightly? What do others think? What do you think Kab?
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby patrickaa317 on Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:05 am

Dukasaur wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:Has a map ever been pulled back into BETA status? I think with the recent changes and talks of new changes, perhaps it should be done with this one...

There was nothing wrong with the map. It was, IMHO, one of the best maps on the site. Then, a single person complained about it (and not even eloquently or in great detail) and for some inexplicable reason based on that ONE incoherent complaint, the map was changed? And now you think it needs a full-scale revamp because of one single unecessary change that can easily be reversed?


I agree with you Dukasaur. I loved the map as it was but now it seems like it is going to go through an overhaul.

Kabanellas wrote:
Blitzaholic wrote:we may need to have 4 starting positions for 1 vs 1 games and dubs games, this may make it a little better for the player who does not go first? what you think on this kab? would this serve to be more helpful?


2 other things for ideas kab, see what you think here m8, see what others think as well.

1. deep lands 4 through 12 could all be 3 neutrals not 2?

Seems ok :)

2. Tofu 13, IA 12, ID 14, AoD 13, The Legion 14, LoW 09, Thota 13, Empire 14, BSS 13, TsM 13 = all could have a symbol on them representing clan leader land?

These territories are usually meaningless in most games, however, if it was a clan leader land with a cool symbol and a reward of an auto bonus of +1 for holding the land, and a auto bonus of +1 every round you hold it automatically, it may attract some to go for it, creating for more valuable areas to enrich the map. Or if there is not enough room in the key, you could make those territories of neutral 1's?

Well, I see a problem here, that would be adding more confusion to the rules which are clear and conceptually precise. (apart from the problem of not having more room/space on the legend board for extra information)
Why not making those distant region starting with 1 neutral troop instead of 2? they will always be useful for region count purposes
:)


These changes could help aid in improving the map slightly? What do others think? What do you think Kab?
taking a break from cc, will be back sometime in the future.
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby HighlanderAttack on Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:33 pm

natty_dread wrote:
Jippd wrote:Look at your definition of weird...point two...defined as bizarre...now look up the definition for bizarre.

Thank you

So unless your saying that the reference YOU posted which states weird as being defined as bizarre is wrong.. I guess my OP was correct


Look further down the definition of bizarre. The differences between bizarre and weird are outlined there:

Synonyms
Bizarre, fantastic, grotesque, weird share a sense of deviation from what is normal or expected. Bizarre means markedly unusual or extraordinarily strange, sometimes whimsically so: bizarre costumes for Mardi Gras; bizarre behavior. [...] Weird refers to that which is mysterious and apparently outside natural law, hence supernatural or uncanny: the weird adventures of a group lost in the jungle; a weird and ghostly apparition. Informally, weird means “very strange”: weird and wacky costumes; weird sense of humor.



LOL the debate on unusual --how about changing the map without any notice is :

BULL SHIT--now debate that
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