Pirates and Merchants - V9 - Pg 1&13

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Pirates and Merchants - V9 - Pg 1&13

Postby DiM on Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:17 pm

[Mod Edit]: This map was labeled as abandoned, if resecued from the same mapmaker, the map must be review by the CAs and the stamp given in past are no more granted. - thenobodies80

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Map Name: Pirates and Merchants
Mapmaker(s): DiM and Zimmah
Number of Territories: 78
Special Features: introducing a new concept of missions.
What Makes This Map Worthy of Being Made: it's something new

gameplay: each player starts with his own ship and nothing else. all other terits are neutral (2) and people have to expand. each player has to identify his UNIQUE mission and follow it as that's the only way to win the game.

V9:
all sorts of minor nitpicks and changes ranging from the title to font changes to flourishes and borders. i honestly don't remember everything i did cause it was done over a long period bit by bit.
large:
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small:
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show: V8

show: V7


show: V6

show: V5

show: V4

show: V3

show: V2

show: V1
Last edited by DiM on Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:55 pm, edited 23 times in total.
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Re: Pirates and Merchants [29.Dec.11] - Missions Map - V1 -

Postby natty dread on Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:26 pm

This map looks familiar :lol:
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Re: Pirates and Merchants [29.Dec.11] - Missions Map - V1 -

Postby DiM on Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:28 pm

natty_dread wrote:This map looks familiar :lol:


yes it does but it's ok. not only have is the play area expanded to include other regions but it also has a completely new gameplay twist.
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Re: Pirates and Merchants [29.Dec.11] - Missions Map - V1 -

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:30 pm

This could be a fun map, if half of it wasn't a legend. ;) Hehe.


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Re: Pirates and Merchants [29.Dec.11] - Missions Map - V1 -

Postby lostatlimbo on Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:33 pm

I'm failing to see how this gameplay could be fair if one player can collect continent bonuses and another can only collect the +1 territories.

I also bet you'll have some deadlocked scenarios depending on how your missions play out.
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Re: Pirates and Merchants [29.Dec.11] - Missions Map - V1 -

Postby DiM on Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:05 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:This could be a fun map, if half of it wasn't a legend. ;) Hehe.


--Andy


pressure lack into getting a better interface with pop-up legends and we'll have only the playable area as the map.
heck, even landgrab has this feature :(
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Re: Pirates and Merchants [29.Dec.11] - Missions Map - V1 -

Postby DiM on Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:15 pm

lostatlimbo wrote:I'm failing to see how this gameplay could be fair if one player can collect continent bonuses and another can only collect the +1 territories.

I also bet you'll have some deadlocked scenarios depending on how your missions play out.


it will all be balanced once the missions are added.

yes as a merchant you might have access to the continent bonus but your mission might be twice as hard as the mission of a pirate.
maybe you'll need to hold more terits, or maybe your objectives are protected by much more neutrals.

first we must decide if people want variant 1 or variant 2.


i can see advantages to either one.
#1 better simulates the idea of being a merchant/pirate that explores and captures.
#2 might offer more strategic options


this map is best played with fog and if you play smart nobody will know what your mission is. sure they might know you're a pirate if you keep getting treasure spots but they won't know which one of the pirates you are. i think this particular aspect will make this map very interesting.
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Re: Pirates and Merchants [29.Dec.11] - Missions Map - V1 -

Postby natty dread on Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:18 pm

One thing kidna worries me... what about in fog, when you can't see the other players' missions? How will you prevent the others from winning when you don't know who has which objective?
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Re: Pirates and Merchants [29.Dec.11] - Missions Map - V1 -

Postby DiM on Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:19 pm

natty_dread wrote:One thing kidna worries me... what about in fog, when you can't see the other players' missions? How will you prevent the others from winning when you don't know who has which objective?



that's precisely the point :mrgreen:

the tactical posibilities are unlimited (in fog) regardless of the gametype you chose.

imagine in a 1v1 game where you make it seem like you've taken an objective only to misdirect the opponent into focusing his troops there, while under the cover of fog you complete your true objective.

or in team games where 2 guys focus on an area keeping the opponents busy, while the 3rd goes for his objective.
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Re: Pirates and Merchants [29.Dec.11] - Missions Map - V1 -

Postby natty dread on Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:28 pm

Ok, but it'll be hard to balance.

You can't make the objectives too easy to accomplish. At the very least, they shouldn't be achievable before round 5 or so. Also, you need to make the objectives equally hard for each player.
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Re: Pirates and Merchants [29.Dec.11] - Missions Map - V1 -

Postby DiM on Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:34 pm

natty_dread wrote:Ok, but it'll be hard to balance.



of course and that's exactly what i like.

had i wanted an easy task i would have started a cow pork map ;)
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Re: Pirates and Merchants [29.Dec.11] - Missions Map - V1 -

Postby lostatlimbo on Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:40 pm

Well, color me skeptical, but I would vote for option #1
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Re: Pirates and Merchants [29.Dec.11] - Missions Map - V1 -

Postby DiM on Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:01 pm

lostatlimbo wrote:Well, color me skeptical, but I would vote for option #1



i'm inclining towards #1 too. i think it works better with the whole "keep your identity secret" thing i'm trying here. plus it makes becoming a governor much harder.
and now that i think about it, getting all those troops in manual deployment might lead to exploits like rushing for the mission under the cover of fog while your new recruit opponent is still trying to read the legend :)

yep #1 it is :D
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Re: Pirates and Merchants [29.Dec.11] - Missions Map - V1 -

Postby zimmah on Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:20 am

DiM wrote:
natty_dread wrote:One thing kidna worries me... what about in fog, when you can't see the other players' missions? How will you prevent the others from winning when you don't know who has which objective?



that's precisely the point :mrgreen:

the tactical posibilities are unlimited (in fog) regardless of the gametype you chose.

imagine in a 1v1 game where you make it seem like you've taken an objective only to misdirect the opponent into focusing his troops there, while under the cover of fog you complete your true objective.

or in team games where 2 guys focus on an area keeping the opponents busy, while the 3rd goes for his objective.



in the original risk game with mission cards, you don't know each others objectives either, and we kinda wanted it that way. in fact, that's where i got my idea from.

things i saw on my first look at the map:

- the anchor on port moresby is on top of the name
- the color of the rivers looks out of place, the sea's have no color but the rivers are blue, it doesn't seem to fit the style of the map.
- i don't really like the look of the ships, it doesn't get the 'DiM' feel
- what about Sir DiM and Captian ZimmaH? lol :lol: (or something that fits the theme)
- maybe something about the treasure symbols, some of them don't really stand out.
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Re: Pirates and Merchants [29.Dec.11] - Missions Map - V1 -

Postby DiM on Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:01 am

zimmah wrote:- the anchor on port moresby is on top of the name
easy to fix
- the color of the rivers looks out of place, the sea's have no color but the rivers are blue, it doesn't seem to fit the style of the map.
this is simply a style choice. i have seen old maps with coloured rivers and the sea left as the colour of the paper. if i make the rivers transparent then i'm afraid they'll be hard to spot. and if i make the sea as blue as the rivers then it will be too overpowering
- i don't really like the look of the ships, it doesn't get the 'DiM' feel
i have no idea what the "DiM" feel is :lol: so i'd need a bit more detail
- what about Sir DiM and Captian ZimmaH? lol :lol: (or something that fits the theme)
fair maiden zimmah? :lol:
- maybe something about the treasure symbols, some of them don't really stand out.
i'll look into it
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Re: Pirates and Merchants [29.Dec.11] - Missions Map - V1 -

Postby zimmah on Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:03 pm

well, it looks good at the parts where it's dark but some parts seem to be brighter in the middle, does it have some inner glow or something? maybe if you remove the glow it may blend in better with the map. the river i mean.
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Re: Pirates and Merchants [29.Dec.11] - Missions Map - V1 -

Postby zimmah on Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:11 pm

it's hard to find drawn ships but i like the ones on this maps

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i think the biggest problem with your ships is that i think you see them from the top or something and i don't really like the look of it. and with not getting the 'DiM' feel i basically mean, "well it's good but i think it's not your best".
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Re: Pirates and Merchants [29.Dec.11] - Missions Map - V1 -

Postby BadgerJelly on Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:30 pm

Neat idea!
You can actually set players to have certain bonuses and others not??
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Re: Pirates and Merchants [29.Dec.11] - Missions Map - V1 -

Postby DiM on Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:34 pm

zimmah wrote:well, it looks good at the parts where it's dark but some parts seem to be brighter in the middle, does it have some inner glow or something? maybe if you remove the glow it may blend in better with the map. the river i mean.


there's no glow it's just that rivers are thicker at their end where they flow into the sea, hence the blue is more prominent. near the beginning of the river the stream is thinner and shallower and that's why it looks like a lighter blue. making the rivers the same width and depth all the way is completely unnatural.
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Re: Pirates and Merchants [29.Dec.11] - Missions Map - V1 -

Postby DiM on Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:35 pm

zimmah wrote:i think the biggest problem with your ships is that i think you see them from the top or something and i don't really like the look of it. and with not getting the 'DiM' feel i basically mean, "well it's good but i think it's not your best".


ok will change them to something hand drawn.
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Re: Pirates and Merchants [29.Dec.11] - Missions Map - V1 -

Postby DiM on Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:38 pm

BadgerJelly wrote:Neat idea!
You can actually set players to have certain bonuses and others not??



yes you can do that. let's say i want only the merchants to get the continent bonuses. to code that you simply add the merchant ships as a requisite in the continent bonus. so even if you hold that continent you won't get the bonus unless you hold at least a merchant ship.
same goes for the treasures (where you need a pirate ship) or the ports (merchant ship)
i don't know exactly what code tags are used in the xml but that's the basic idea.
zimmah could probably tell you in detail.
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Re: Pirates and Merchants [29.Dec.11] - Missions Map - V1 -

Postby DiM on Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:24 pm

V2:
*changed the ships to hand drawn
*some name changes and movements
*treasure Xs made more visible
*legend tweaks
*minor modifications here and there
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Re: Pirates and Merchants [29.Dec.11] - Missions Map - V1 -

Postby zimmah on Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:28 pm

DiM wrote:
BadgerJelly wrote:Neat idea!
You can actually set players to have certain bonuses and others not??



yes you can do that. let's say i want only the merchants to get the continent bonuses. to code that you simply add the merchant ships as a requisite in the continent bonus. so even if you hold that continent you won't get the bonus unless you hold at least a merchant ship.
same goes for the treasures (where you need a pirate ship) or the ports (merchant ship)
i don't know exactly what code tags are used in the xml but that's the basic idea.
zimmah could probably tell you in detail.



this only hold true if you have starting regions that can not be assaulted by anyone else, as i explained before to badger regarding a simular question, all players will be treated equally so it's not possible to apply different rules to different players. in this map the effect is simulated but all players still get the same treatment if they would have a possibility to get the same region.
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Re: Pirates and Merchants [29.Dec.11] - Missions Map - V1 -

Postby zimmah on Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:29 pm

that's allready much better to me
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Re: Pirates and Merchants [29.Dec.11] - Missions Map - V1 -

Postby DiM on Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:31 pm

zimmah wrote:that's allready much better to me



cool, now forget about graphics for a while and focus on missions.
suggestions are appreciated :)
“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku
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Major DiM
 
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