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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V4. [31 Dec. 2011] pg.2

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:31 pm

Flapcake wrote:Christiania improved.

Gameplay, I dont even know if its posible in XML, but hold any 3 of 5 sights to win, can that work ?

Any amount can be done.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V4. [31 Dec. 2011] pg.4

Postby Flapcake on Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:23 am

Hi guys, need some wise input/comments for game play ;)
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V4. [31 Dec. 2011] pg.4

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:58 am

Some thoughts.

With the 3 icons (plane, train & bus) auto deploy +1, this is OK but remove the tram stops from the two that have them. It makes them strong and being able to attack all districts.
With the +3 of the 5 winning condition icons, a neutral needs to be larger (around a 5) to stop them being taken early in small games.
Try to move you WC icons from the tram stops. Some are right next to one while others are a couple of territs away.
You have no small bonuses. It might be wise to create a couple of small bonuses. Change City North into City North (Holmans, State & Botanical) and City East. This gives you central small bonuses for early fighting.
You have no impassables? I can see in the underlying image some parks and a lake. If you can bring these out (in keeping with the tourist map idea), you create some. This would then affect your bonuses.
What are the dotted lines? If they are bridges, make them the same as the others.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V4. [31 Dec. 2011] pg.4

Postby Flapcake on Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:52 pm

koontz1973 wrote:Some thoughts.

With the 3 icons (plane, train & bus) auto deploy +1, this is OK but remove the tram stops from the two that have them. It makes them strong and being able to attack all districts.
With the +3 of the 5 winning condition icons, a neutral needs to be larger (around a 5) to stop them being taken early in small games.
Try to move you WC icons from the tram stops. Some are right next to one while others are a couple of territs away.
You have no small bonuses. It might be wise to create a couple of small bonuses. Change City North into City North (Holmans, State & Botanical) and City East. This gives you central small bonuses for early fighting.
You have no impassables? I can see in the underlying image some parks and a lake. If you can bring these out (in keeping with the tourist map idea), you create some. This would then affect your bonuses.
What are the dotted lines? If they are bridges, make them the same as the others.


Il take a closer look at your suggestions, you got some good points, working on a update.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V4. [31 Dec. 2011] pg.2

Postby Victor Sullivan on Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:39 pm

Hm, in terms of gameplay, I suggest the following:

    City North --> +8
    City South --> +6
    Amager --> +5

    I think the win condition is a bit too easy. I suggest requiring 4 of the 5, and putting neutral 1s on the metro stations, 3s on the autodeploys, and 4 on the objective regions.
-Sully
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V4. [31 Dec. 2011] pg.2

Postby Flapcake on Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:36 am

Victor Sullivan wrote:Hm, in terms of gameplay, I suggest the following:

    City North --> +8
    City South --> +6
    Amager --> +5

    I think the win condition is a bit too easy. I suggest requiring 4 of the 5, and putting neutral 1s on the metro stations, 3s on the autodeploys, and 4 on the objective regions.
-Sully


Im working on a update, hope to post it later to day :)
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. [15 Jan. 2012] pg.4

Postby Flapcake on Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:32 am

Update, changes: gameplay, bonus city south and amager upgradet with 1. Impassebles in form as "cones"
Winning condiction are "hold 4 of 5 sigths to win, 1 neutra on metro stations, 3 neutral on ferry/plane/train, 4 neutral on sigth icons.

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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. [15 Jan. 2012] pg.4

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:44 am

Someone has been into the London thread.;) Busy right now but will have a proper look later.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. [15 Jan. 2012] pg.4

Postby Flapcake on Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:09 am

koontz1973 wrote:Someone has been into the London thread.;) Busy right now but will have a proper look later.


he he yes it might look like, but I've actually worked on it for a while ;)
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 18/1 gameplay pg.4

Postby Flapcake on Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:05 pm

Any gameplay stamp in the horisiont for this ?

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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 18/1 gameplay pg.4

Postby bryguy on Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:55 pm

- Conditions: In the legend, I'd change it to "Hold any 4 sights for 1 round to win". You only need 4, not 5, so why tell them that they need either 4 or more?

- Some of the bonuses seem a bit... unbalanced. I'm not the best at telling how much of a bonus places should get to fit well with how many territories they have to protect from attack and how many territories can attack them, but this seems unbalanced. That's about all I can tell you there. May want to have someone give a second opinion on this though.

- *Impassable, not impasseble.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 18/1 gameplay pg.4

Postby Flapcake on Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:14 pm

bryguy wrote:- Conditions: In the legend, I'd change it to "Hold any 4 sights for 1 round to win". You only need 4, not 5, so why tell them that they need either 4 or more?

- Some of the bonuses seem a bit... unbalanced. I'm not the best at telling how much of a bonus places should get to fit well with how many territories they have to protect from attack and how many territories can attack them, but this seems unbalanced. That's about all I can tell you there. May want to have someone give a second opinion on this though.

- *Impassable, not impasseble.


words of use and misspellings is no problem to change.

The bonuses are based on how many areas are connected to each other (how many you need to defend with more than 1 troop) and/+ how many areas keeps a bonus.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 18/1 gameplay pg.4

Postby bryguy on Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:16 pm

Flapcake wrote:
bryguy wrote:- Conditions: In the legend, I'd change it to "Hold any 4 sights for 1 round to win". You only need 4, not 5, so why tell them that they need either 4 or more?

- Some of the bonuses seem a bit... unbalanced. I'm not the best at telling how much of a bonus places should get to fit well with how many territories they have to protect from attack and how many territories can attack them, but this seems unbalanced. That's about all I can tell you there. May want to have someone give a second opinion on this though.

- *Impassable, not impasseble.


words of use and misspellings is no problem to change.

The bonuses are based on how many areas are connected to each other (how many you need to defend with more than 1 troop) and/+ how many areas keeps a bonus.



Ah yep that's what I missed, I didn't realize the metros all connected. Does make more sense now.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 18/1 gameplay pg.4

Postby Flapcake on Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:33 pm

bryguy wrote:
Flapcake wrote:
bryguy wrote:- Conditions: In the legend, I'd change it to "Hold any 4 sights for 1 round to win". You only need 4, not 5, so why tell them that they need either 4 or more?

- Some of the bonuses seem a bit... unbalanced. I'm not the best at telling how much of a bonus places should get to fit well with how many territories they have to protect from attack and how many territories can attack them, but this seems unbalanced. That's about all I can tell you there. May want to have someone give a second opinion on this though.

- *Impassable, not impasseble.


words of use and misspellings is no problem to change.

The bonuses are based on how many areas are connected to each other (how many you need to defend with more than 1 troop) and/+ how many areas keeps a bonus.



Ah yep that's what I missed, I didn't realize the metros all connected. Does make more sense now.


Np. but if there are some good ideas to add some more gameplay within reasonable limits, it is very welcome
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 18/1 gameplay pg.4

Postby Flapcake on Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:11 am

Changes: legend, minor misspellings.

Anything more about gameplay ? or do we have a stamp in sight ? :mrgreen:

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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby crazymilkshake5 on Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:27 pm

Looks good to me, but then again I'm no mod, haha
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby DoomYoshi on Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:16 am

Good idea for a map.

4 sights sounds weird. I know how it was derived, but 4 sites makes more sense (to me).

What is the intended gameplay on this map? I like how 2-players start with 11 and there are no small bonuses. But 14 neutrals means that one-third of the map most likely won't be used in 2-player games.

Team games is a similar story, especially on 8-players since it will be so easy for teams to wipe players out (due to small number of starting territories).

That leaves single-player action as the main focus. However, with no small bonuses, single-player will pretty much degrade into a slugfest.

Basically, I am going to give you the same advice I give to every mapmaker: get rid of unnecessary neutrals. I think the objectives should stay neutral, but everything else should drop to 1 neutral, or become starting territories.

EDIT: somehow I missed that the ports etc. give bonuses. That makes the map much more playable in team mode. Single-player will still be a slugfest though. (I define a slugfest as a game which is decided more by dice than anything else).
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby Flapcake on Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:19 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:Good idea for a map.

4 sights sounds weird. I know how it was derived, but 4 sites makes more sense (to me).

What is the intended gameplay on this map? I like how 2-players start with 11 and there are no small bonuses. But 14 neutrals means that one-third of the map most likely won't be used in 2-player games.

Team games is a similar story, especially on 8-players since it will be so easy for teams to wipe players out (due to small number of starting territories).

That leaves single-player action as the main focus. However, with no small bonuses, single-player will pretty much degrade into a slugfest.

Basically, I am going to give you the same advice I give to every mapmaker: get rid of unnecessary neutrals. I think the objectives should stay neutral, but everything else should drop to 1 neutral, or become starting territories.

EDIT: somehow I missed that the ports etc. give bonuses. That makes the map much more playable in team mode. Single-player will still be a slugfest though. (I define a slugfest as a game which is decided more by dice than anything else).


Hi DoomYoshi
Im glad to recive your comment and suggestion, thats what the foundry are for :mrgreen:

I would be even more than happy if maby you, or ohters made and description on troop placement and distbrution.
Im not an eagle to gameplay so im all ears 8-)
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby Dukasaur on Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:42 pm

Excellent map! I didn't even know this existed until I read the article in the newsletter. I'm glad I finally found it. This is exactly the kind of map I've been hoping to see for a long time. Bravo!

=D>

If you want a comment, I think the bonuses might be slightly too large. Their approximate rank looks right, but I would range the bonuses from 3 to 6 instead of 4 to 7.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby DoomYoshi on Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:50 am

Before I can answer, I need to know what sort of gameplay you are aiming for. Right now, this map is similar to arms race and the two unification maps.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby Flapcake on Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:22 am

Dukasaur wrote:Excellent map! I didn't even know this existed until I read the article in the newsletter. I'm glad I finally found it. This is exactly the kind of map I've been hoping to see for a long time. Bravo!

=D>

If you want a comment, I think the bonuses might be slightly too large. Their approximate rank looks right, but I would range the bonuses from 3 to 6 instead of 4 to 7.

Thx Dukasaur :)
the bonuses could be toned down a bit.


DoomYoshi wrote:Before I can answer, I need to know what sort of gameplay you are aiming for. Right now, this map is similar to arms race and the two unification maps.


DoomYoshi, I dont want the gameplay to change radical, its a turist map with sights to see and conquer, thats also why its hold any 4 "sights" and not "sites"
the "hold any 4" has been worked in at my denmark map after 1000 games in beta, and the map is more exciting to play now, so Il stick with that, the advise Im looking for around gameplay is more where to place the impassebles and how they shal apear (graphic) more gameplay wise, the kind of advise Dukasaur came up with.

Flap ;)
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby DoomYoshi on Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:16 pm

I am not saying the gameplay should change radically. I would suggest to make the outside more open and the inside less open. Right now, turn 1 strategy should be to deploy on sports facilities or our savior cemetery. Since only 2 players can hold the 2 most valuable starting positions, it wouldn't be very fun for single player. However, in team games, a problem like that is not as severe.

The easiest way to add blocking in a European city is to add the historical city walls. After a bit of reading, I learned that in the 15th century it seems Osterbro was walled off. However, some further research is obviously necessary.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby Flapcake on Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:19 am

DoomYoshi wrote:I am not saying the gameplay should change radically. I would suggest to make the outside more open and the inside less open. Right now, turn 1 strategy should be to deploy on sports facilities or our savior cemetery. Since only 2 players can hold the 2 most valuable starting positions, it wouldn't be very fun for single player. However, in team games, a problem like that is not as severe.

The easiest way to add blocking in a European city is to add the historical city walls. After a bit of reading, I learned that in the 15th century it seems Osterbro was walled off. However, some further research is obviously necessary.



Hi DoomYoshi, could I get you to explain furter this "I would suggest to make the outside more open and the inside less open. Right now, turn 1 strategy should be to deploy on sports facilities or our savior cemetery. Since only 2 players can hold the 2 most valuable starting positions"

It sounds interesting but Im not sure what you meen. :?:

About "Osterbro" the name translatet to english says: Easten brigde, all 4 conors are represented around inner city, copenhagen had no inner wall, it was surronded by water (lakes) most still excist, so a ancient wall would be wierd ;) I kind of thought about making head streets for impasables. the cones looks stupid.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby Dukasaur on Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:14 am

Flapcake wrote:ancient wall would be wierd ;) I kind of thought about making head streets for impasables. the cones looks stupid.

A wrought-iron fence of the kind that many European buildings use would look good, I think.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby Flapcake on Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:03 am

Dukasaur wrote:
Flapcake wrote:ancient wall would be wierd ;) I kind of thought about making head streets for impasables. the cones looks stupid.

A wrought-iron fence of the kind that many European buildings use would look good, I think.


Yes. maby sidewalks could do.
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