An idea from a complete new comer....

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An idea from a complete new comer....

Postby ebt1972 on Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:36 am

Well, I've read just about everything I can and am actively taking part in a training field (thanks guys!).

But... (it had to come), the guys offering training have real lives which means often a long delay in getting replies....so I end up playing about 40% of my moves solo (partly because I dont like to keep the other players waiting forever, I dont want to spoil their games). I also find I learn more when someone explains their thinking/strategy/ethos, rather than just following a "+2 on istanbul" approach. I guess Im not cut out to be a parrot :)

So, (getting ready to be shot down).... is it an option for a few example games to be posted, showing the maps at each round and an explanation of the players thinking process through the game? For me at least, this would be useful and I'd be able to use that as a reference rather than loading the instructors with my poorly played games ;)

Of course, this might be old ground..... so if Im talking horse crap, dont be shy to point it out.


ps. thanks futt, mac and everyone else who's offered guidance so far
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Re: An idea from a complete new comer....

Postby macbone on Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:15 am

That's a great idea, ebt! See what Viceroy's doing for something very similar to that idea.
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Re: An idea from a complete new comer....

Postby Flapcake on Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:44 pm

ebt1972 wrote:Well, I've read just about everything I can and am actively taking part in a training field (thanks guys!).

But... (it had to come), the guys offering training have real lives which means often a long delay in getting replies....so I end up playing about 40% of my moves solo (partly because I dont like to keep the other players waiting forever, I dont want to spoil their games). I also find I learn more when someone explains their thinking/strategy/ethos, rather than just following a "+2 on istanbul" approach. I guess Im not cut out to be a parrot :)

So, (getting ready to be shot down).... is it an option for a few example games to be posted, showing the maps at each round and an explanation of the players thinking process through the game? For me at least, this would be useful and I'd be able to use that as a reference rather than loading the instructors with my poorly played games ;)

Of course, this might be old ground..... so if Im talking horse crap, dont be shy to point it out.


ps. thanks futt, mac and everyone else who's offered guidance so far



I totaly agree, I rater quickly stopped posting for help in games becourse it was only instructions like 2 on E7 ect. ect. I kind of needed some explation furter ahead about what to expect and why it was wise to do this and not this and so on, Im not plaing the trainings games just to win and advance in rank but to learn some tactic and game metods.

What i think coud be usefull was 1v1 whit an instuctor and use gamechat, and/or smaller games with an instructor atached to gamechat to help every one in game.
(shoot me down aswell)

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Re: An idea from a complete new comer....

Postby dhallmeyer on Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:00 pm

I understand your issues. Staff issues aside, we keep things short and sweet often because we expect you have already read and understood what is going on. We've put a lot of work into publishing helpful documents that we hope you read and glean from. Our teaching is mostly the same principles found in the How To Guide, with step by step application. Feel free to ask questions when you post your turns so that we know when further explanation is needed. Our job is to help you learn.

As was said, being a parrot doesn't do anyone much good, but sometimes the parrot turns are just steps that you've already mastered and we've got to get through turns 1-4 before we can get to 5 and beyond.
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Re: An idea from a complete new comer....

Postby macbone on Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:08 am

Also, ebt, if you receive advice like "Drop on E2 and hit E3, no advance," you can always PM the teacher or ask for clarification in the thread. I think sometimes I offer too much input, more than the student actually wants, but we teachers will gladly explain our suggestions if you ask.
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Re: An idea from a complete new comer....

Postby ebt1972 on Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:06 am

Yep, I've read the documents a few times. They make for a great resource since I can re-read at any time.... even when Im not impaired with red wine ;)

Thanks for the pointer to viceroys thread, very interesting reading. It helps to understand the thinking behind moves.

Incidentally, nothing in my post was intended as 'criticism', Im conscious you guys volunteer your time and that I just basically leech. It was intended more as an idea of way to take up less of your time in teaching fools like me.


PS. Flapjack, nice mutt :)
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Re: An idea from a complete new comer....

Postby Viceroy63 on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:37 am

Hi all:

I would also like to point out on the part of instructors being too short in their advice like, "2 on A1, no advance," that instructors can not be to elaborate in their advice with lengthy letters and words explaining every details of their advice. There are many students and if they wrote long letters to each student in order to "teach" them, then not to many students would ever see an instructor at all.

As it was mentioned, if a student has a question or something that he doesn't understand then he should ask specifically in the SoC game form. One of the great things about forums is that a question can be raised and everyone that comes across that forum can see the question and the answer. In part that is why I started the thread, "Debriefing of Game 10476657." In that thread we can raise many questions and many others can see and answer those questions. And occasionally an instructor could come by and correct any errors stated.

I think that idea of making a practice game, all played out in advanced, explaining all the mistakes and good moves is a good idea. Perhaps several of us could get together and form such a game. Some playing badly on purpose while others follow the F4M Guiding principles and we can all participate in that "Debriefing."
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Re: An idea from a complete new comer....

Postby ElricTheGreat on Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:41 pm

HI guys ... as a little foundation ...

Do not worry about keeping the pace of our games going ... the players that are playing generally understand they are in a teaching game and that as such there is almost an expectation to have longer periods of time between turns ... you can play other games on the side that you can keep the pace going quickly ...

But just as in a teaching hospital where things do not proceed or are not always as we would like them to be ... these games are a place of tutoring and as such are exempt from the old HURRY UP Already and go.

You also need to remember that there is a really good chance that you are not the only one posting comments and waiting for an answer ... we have many Training Fields in operation at the same time ... we ask that others in your Training Field NOT join and or post the same game as you ... but that is so that other students from other rooms get a chance to join the games as well ... they are also permitted to post in their forums as well.

Hope this helps a bit ... remember we are here to HELP GUIDE you toward a rewarding learning experience .. unlike what some might think ... I have a day JOB and am here to have a fun rewarding experience as well. The Teachers in general derive satisfaction and at times a little pride seeing how the students progress and in time may master the knowledge we share.

Almost all of the Teachers have come from within the very ranks you are currently sharing with your fellow students. I, myself once toiled about in the room # 3 .. if you look around you will probably still come across some of my old student threads. You will see how I was just as inquisitive and lost as some of you are today ... but the fog has lifted for me and today I try to help others along their journey.

Guys .. first and foremost .. HAVE FUN .. more than that .. HAVE A BLAST.

Once you have gotten through basic training .. review your own journey ... then ask yourself if it was worth t .. and maybe ask yourself if you could see yourselves helping other follow in your footsteps.

See you on the battlefield !!!! Watch for my Stealer of Lost Souls matches and sign up ... I am always eager for a few more souls for my sword!
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Re: An idea from a complete new comer....

Postby ben.cleuch on Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:26 am

You can always say hello in game chat, then announce that you are posting the game. that way palyers will understand any possible delay.
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Re: An idea from a complete new comer....

Postby Viceroy63 on Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:21 pm

OK; Here it is in a nutshell.

The overall, main strategy to this game, for those who don't get it yet and That which is spelled out in the SoC handbook and quite clearly I might add, is;

To SURVIVE!

That's it. It doesn't get any simpler then that. When the SoC Handbook talks about, "Troop Strength, and not wasting time going after bonus zones and going for the easy wins just to gain a spoil card, it's all about staying strong enough in numbers so that you have a better opportunity of winning, then if you are weak in troop strength and some one comes with a trade of 12 troops and takes you out with just that because you were so weak.

There is not much more explanation needed as the strategy is not that complicated. The strong survive the weak die. That is all there is to it. For an instructor to go into details with every student as to why this move or that move is to repeat over and over again that lesson which is clearly defined in the SoC Handbook. The instructors could just as easily send us back to the handbook and tell us to read it again if there is something that we do not understand. But to cease participation in a program that offers free mentor-ship from people who only want to be of help to us, because they are not giving us more feedback about our moves is our loss.

Now as to that "Game Chat" idea, that is not worthy to shoot down because that is an excellent idea only it should not be in a game chat which is here today and forgotten tomorrow but in a "Thread Forum" that everyone can go to and add to it. The problem is that no one hardly post any questions, out of embarrassment I guess but if people have questions, Guess what? That's what the forums can also be used for. An "Open forum" to discuss those questions. Of course then some one would sooner or later guide you to the rules or the SoC Handbook or something else that you should have read first. In some cases those "game chats" are already there, posted as forum threads. It's just a question of going through the time and trouble of reading through those threads. But after a while of doing so, it does get sort of fun as we learn through all of that reading.

There is a saying that we only get out of a thing that which we put into a thing and on an island, if you don't bring it with you, then you're not going to find it.

CC is the same way. If we don't ask and do not discuss; If we don't participate and put something into the community pot in the way of discussion and questions, then we simply are not going to get much out of it. In general I see this thread as very successful simply because, Some one took the time to create it and all of these words from all these people came out. I am grateful to see so many people willing to discuss and participate in this forum topic. May it always be so.

As to the SoC Training Games taking so long? If you feel that you have learned enough then you can always stop playing them and just play non SoC games. The SoC Games are there for that purpose that any SoC student can ask specific questions and get specific answers no matter how long it takes, but if it looks like the student has not even bothered to read the book or are not asking specific questions, then what's the point? Read the SoC Handbook, Guide to world domination and if you still have questions then join a Training Field. If you feel that you understand it all then you've graduated. Congratulations on your successful understanding of this game. And may you enjoy your fare share of the spoils.
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