CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [Quenched]

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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [14.2.12] P3-V5 Title Update

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:07 pm

cairnswk wrote:did somebody infest you with their barberous tongue today :shock:

When I wrote what I was, so yes, a bad mood day. Must remember to not post when in a mood.
Sorry for that.

Better mood today and guess what, not much really to complain about GP wise. I love the way you are bringing in the metro map, but it might be nice to see some continuity between the two graphics wise. Same colours, textures, icons and what not. Am I correct in thinking that the metro map is only the Sydney territ on this one? Looking good but I am sure you can see the same defects I can so will not go over them now.

Is there any way you could squeeze the bottom a bit so your bonus legend can fit onto 3 lines? If you can, then it would (again) be nice to see the metro map style brought over.

Two questions for you. What font is the title as I love it? and how did you get that sea detail. Might have to snatch that of you one day.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [14.2.12] P3-V5 Title Update

Postby cairnswk on Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:00 pm

koontz1973 wrote:
cairnswk wrote:did somebody infest you with their barberous tongue today :shock:

When I wrote what I was, so yes, a bad mood day. Must remember to not post when in a mood.
Sorry for that.

Better mood today....
Thanks. That's good. :) All is well.

... I love the way you are bringing in the metro map, but it might be nice to see some continuity between the two graphics wise. Same colours, textures, icons and what not. Am I correct in thinking that the metro map is only the Sydney territ on this one? Looking good but I am sure you can see the same defects I can so will not go over them now.

Is there any way you could squeeze the bottom a bit so your bonus legend can fit onto 3 lines? If you can, then it would (again) be nice to see the metro map style brought over.

A couple of things here...
1. i wanted to keep this map as standard size 630x600 because i don't think it justifies anything bigger, i.e. it is nice and compact.
2. squeezing the territories to fit in another line in the legend would create some very squashed territories and i have to ask for what benefit. Also what would i do with the area under the Blue Mntns Nat. Park? I don't know if this map justifies the same legedn style as Metro....perhaps i can come up with something similar but different colours, we'll see.
3. i think the road element is enough to bring across from the Metro map...i would like this map to have simply classic gameplay and not include the icons that are on the Metro map as part of that gameplay.
4. After all the agitation about maps being same-same in the foundry, would you want the same textures etc brought over?
5. The metro map contains some of the detailed suburbs in the area defined on this map by La Perouse, Hurstville, Parramatta, Lane Cove, Chatswood and Manly. There are 656 suburbs listed here.
6. yes i can see some of the defects, and am working on them

Two questions for you. What font is the title as I love it?

AlgerianD

and how did you get that sea detail. Might have to snatch that of you one day.

This is a texture file in Fireworks called Vein - i have it as 15% as the sea background.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [14.2.12] P3-V5 Title Update

Postby chapcrap on Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:09 pm

cairnswk wrote:
What is the reason for making BM National Parks raised? None of the regions look like this and it just looks a little strange by itself.

Ah, because they are actually mountains that sit behind a 40 mile almost flat plain...that's why they're raised :)

Jamison Valley is raised in RL?

I don't know. I'm honestly asking. If you say so, I believe you. I just think it looks a little strange to seemingly have the continent raised about the rest of the map.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [14.2.12] P3-V5 Title Update

Postby cairnswk on Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:34 pm

chapcrap wrote:...
Jamison Valley is raised in RL?

yes i would say it is raised in RL.
You can read about it here
There is also a video here which will allow you to see Katoomba on top of the Blue Mountains.
While it is a valley in the Blue Mountains, it is certainly elevated above the coastal plain.
3 sisters (in the photo) - 900 metres above sea level.
Valley floor 545 metres to the top
Here it explains that the Jamison Valley is 478 metres above sea level.

I don't know. I'm honestly asking. If you say so, I believe you. I just think it looks a little strange to seemingly have the continent raised about the rest of the map.

I have been up there many times and done various walks around sightseeing etc etc. It is quite cool and rarified air, very different from the coastal plain, and definitely in the mountains. :)
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [18.2.12] P4-V6 Updates

Postby cairnswk on Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:29 pm

Version 6.

This addresses a couple of issues.
1. the bridge is more detailed in the title.
2. the colour of the upper blue mntns has been changed slightly
3. the lines indicating the lower blue mntn suburbs are back again.
4. Kyak has been fixed to Kayak

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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [18.2.12] P4-V6 Updates

Postby cairnswk on Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:38 pm

So now for gameplay discussion....
I am thinking the only territory that will require a neutral start is sydney.
there are Nil two territory regions.
there are 5 three territory regions
the remainder are 4 and above.
I will do the probability drop s/sheet shortly.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [14.2.12] P3-V5 Title Update

Postby cairnswk on Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:50 pm

chapcrap wrote:...
I also know that IH brought this up long ago, but it seems a lot of the roads are really unnecessary...

I've had another look at the freeways.
There are several spots where, yes, the freeways mights seem unnecessary.
But for me, removing them would seem an interruption to the flow of the freeways themselves. To have part freeways seems silly to me, and that is why i developed the pedestrian crossing (with lghts) as a means of moving across them.
Having an uninterrupted flow of a freeway also gives some aesthetic to a map to give you an idea that this is roughly where the main freeways in this city run. :)
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [18.2.12] P4-V6 Updates

Postby chapcrap on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:13 pm

Well, if you removed the northern road (which isn't needed at all north of the circle freeway), I think it might look better.

Also, I like the seakayak routes here better than Perth.

As far as gameplay goes, I would agree with you. There really isn't anywhere that I think is a problem or would need to start neutral other that Sydney.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [18.2.12] P4-V6 Updates

Postby cairnswk on Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:55 pm

chapcrap wrote:Well, if you removed the northern road (which isn't needed at all north of the circle freeway), I think it might look better.

Ah. i really don't want to do that, as i have already explained.

Also, I like the seakayak routes here better than Perth.
Good

As far as gameplay goes, I would agree with you. There really isn't anywhere that I think is a problem or would need to start neutral other that Sydney.

Agreed, but we'll see what the drop calculator says later when this gets out of drafts...if it does? ;)
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [18.2.12] P4-V6 Updates

Postby disco bandit on Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:54 pm

I've been lurking around this thread for a while now, and like what I see. The (sensible) changes asked for have been made and the map looks good.

I would like to see the Mid West colour swapped for maybe Central Coast to create a bigger difference between the areas around mid west/western plains, but having lived in Sydney, I understand that the whole of that area is one avoidable suburb anyway ;-)

Keep up the good work.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [14.3.12] P4-V7 Updates

Postby cairnswk on Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:16 am

disco bandit wrote:I've been lurking around this thread for a while now, and like what I see. The (sensible) changes asked for have been made and the map looks good.

I would like to see the Mid West colour swapped for maybe Central Coast to create a bigger difference between the areas around mid west/western plains, but having lived in Sydney, I understand that the whole of that area is one avoidable suburb anyway ;-)

Keep up the good work.


hi disco bandit, thanks for commenting... :)
sorry to take so long about replying.
below i have made those requested changes for you.

Version 7

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Last edited by cairnswk on Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [14.3.12] P5-V7 Updates

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:27 pm

Let's get this one onward and upward!!
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [14.3.12] P5-V7 Updates

Postby cairnswk on Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:45 pm

isaiah40 wrote:Let's get this one onward and upward!!
...stamp...

Thanks for the stamp isaiah40, sorry i didn't notice before this :oops:
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [14.3.12] P5-V7 Updates

Postby Gillipig on Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:57 am

Great to see this map get a stamp! The lake Parramatta seems quite pointless though if you don't mind I say that :). It doesn't act as an impassable nor is it a region so maybe it should go!?
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [14.3.12] P5-V7 Updates

Postby cairnswk on Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:21 am

Gillipig wrote:Great to see this map get a stamp! The lake Parramatta seems quite pointless though if you don't mind I say that :). It doesn't act as an impassable nor is it a region so maybe it should go!?

Can do, next version :)
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [14.3.12] P5-V7 Updates

Postby chapcrap on Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:21 pm

cairnswk wrote:
Gillipig wrote:Great to see this map get a stamp! The lake Parramatta seems quite pointless though if you don't mind I say that :). It doesn't act as an impassable nor is it a region so maybe it should go!?

Can do, next version :)

I don't see why. It doesn't get in the way of anything. It's less point less that the roadways in the north.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [14.3.12] P5-V7 Updates

Postby cairnswk on Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:04 pm

chapcrap wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
Gillipig wrote:Great to see this map get a stamp! The lake Parramatta seems quite pointless though if you don't mind I say that :). It doesn't act as an impassable nor is it a region so maybe it should go!?

Can do, next version :)

I don't see why. It doesn't get in the way of anything. It's less point less that the roadways in the north.

I would prefer to remove the lake over removing the road :)
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [14.3.12] P5-V7 Updates

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:25 am

It has been a while since I've given this map a once over. I think the only thing that sticks out when I gave it look, was that the numbers in the bonus legend might be better off not colored, so they can stand out a little more.


--Andy
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [14.3.12] P5-V7 Updates

Postby chapcrap on Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:37 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:It has been a while since I've given this map a once over. I think the only thing that sticks out when I gave it look, was that the numbers in the bonus legend might be better off not colored, so they can stand out a little more.


--Andy

Or not have the boxes around the numbers...
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [14.3.12] P4-V7 Updates

Postby pamoa on Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:37 am

cairnswk as usual = great
legend order suggestion to respect some usual reading order
+3 NW Highlands
+4 Lower Blue Mtns
+3 Upper Blue Mtns
+2 BM National Park
Central Coast +2 . Hills District +5 . National Parks +4 . North Shore +4 . N'n Beaches +4 . Sydney +1
Western Plains +4 . Mid-west +5 . SE Suburbs +4 . Eastern Suburbs +2 . S'n Highlands +5 . S'n Beaches +2
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [16.4.12] P5-V8 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:05 pm

Version 8..
cairnswk wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
Gillipig wrote:Great to see this map get a stamp! The lake Parramatta seems quite pointless though if you don't mind I say that :). It doesn't act as an impassable nor is it a region so maybe it should go!?

Can do, next version :)

I don't see why. It doesn't get in the way of anything. It's less point less that the roadways in the north.

I would prefer to remove the lake over removing the road :)

Lake removed...

AndyDufresne wrote:It has been a while since I've given this map a once over. I think the only thing that sticks out when I gave it look, was that the numbers in the bonus legend might be better off not colored, so they can stand out a little more.
--Andy

With this new version, do you still feel this way?

chapcrap wrote:...
Or not have the boxes around the numbers...

And are you still inclined with this chapcrap?

pamoa wrote:cairnswk as usual = great
legend order suggestion to respect some usual reading order
+3 NW Highlands
+4 Lower Blue Mtns
+3 Upper Blue Mtns
+2 BM National Park
Central Coast +2 . Hills District +5 . National Parks +4 . North Shore +4 . N'n Beaches +4 . Sydney +1
Western Plains +4 . Mid-west +5 . SE Suburbs +4 . Eastern Suburbs +2 . S'n Highlands +5 . S'n Beaches +2


pamoa...sorry, but with possibly ( i haven't had the size approved yet) new room, i found a better way to re-organise the legend...classic style... left to right - top to bottom...thanks for the incentive to examine this aspect again though.

I like the new shape, but i don't know if any new size policy will permit it.

Is there any discussion on gameplay, anyone?

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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [16.4.12] P5-V8 Gameplay?

Postby pamoa on Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:39 am

unusual shape I hope lack can accept it
reading order is now fine for me
about Rockdale/Hurstville/La Perouse connection
It is very disturbing having territories being both side of highways
I think you shouldn't follow reality but simplify for legibility
Rockdale just north of Highway
La Perouse should annex eastern part of Hurstville
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [16.4.12] P5-V8 Gameplay?

Postby chapcrap on Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:40 pm

Yes, I still feel the same about the numbers for the bonuses. If you kept them the same color and took them out of the box, they would look fine.

And, I would still take the roads out where they aren't necessary. The map would look a lot better without them.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [16.4.12] P5-V8 Gameplay?

Postby nolefan5311 on Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:26 pm

Have you thought about maybe breaking down the bonuses with like a mini-map in the upper left corner? With so many bonuses and many of them being in the same color spectrum, people who aren't familiar with the geography of Sydney (this guy included) might have trouble telling the bonuses apart from each other. I, personally, would struggle to play this map without BOB (I am pretty colorblind with some of the colors on the map).
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [16.4.12] P5-V8 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:43 pm

pamoa wrote:unusual shape I hope lack can accept it
reading order is now fine for me

Good

about Rockdale/Hurstville/La Perouse connection
It is very disturbing having territories being both side of highways
I think you shouldn't follow reality but simplify for legibility
Rockdale just north of Highway
La Perouse should annex eastern part of Hurstville

Done. :)

chapcrap wrote:Yes, I still feel the same about the numbers for the bonuses. If you kept them the same color and took them out of the box, they would look fine.

And, I would still take the roads out where they aren't necessary. The map would look a lot better without them.

OK...heard

nolefan5311 wrote:Have you thought about maybe breaking down the bonuses with like a mini-map in the upper left corner? With so many bonuses and many of them being in the same color spectrum, people who aren't familiar with the geography of Sydney (this guy included) might have trouble telling the bonuses apart from each other. I, personally, would struggle to play this map without BOB (I am pretty colorblind with some of the colors on the map).

No i hadn't thought about that, pitty you didn't suggest it before i did this re-work, but np!
CB - what colours do you have issue with? 'coz they'll have to be adjusted in the legend as well as on the map.
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